# Very basic question about legal citation and/or precedents **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 16, 2010, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/very-basic-question-about-legal-citation-and-or-precedents/543487 "2010-06-16T23:37:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2010, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/very-basic-question-about-legal-citation-and-or-precedents/543487/1 "2010-06-16T23:37:44Z")
In [this link from FindLaw](http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=US&vol=000&invol=99-830) (the text of the famous SCOTUS Stenberg case), and also in many other FindLaw links, the citations therein are often of the form “XXXXX at ###”, where the XXXX is a statement of what I think is established law or precedent, and the ### is a number (which in this case, is in the 800’s). To what are those numbers referring? I assume they have something to do with where in the text of the precedent case the statement of established law occurs. That being said, I don’t know how to use the numbers to locate the relevant section (or lines, or whatever). I expect there is a very simple answer to this and that, if I were smarter and/or less tired, I would be able to figure it out. So it is with some embarrassment that I’m asking for your help in doing so. Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2010, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/very-basic-question-about-legal-citation-and-or-precedents/543487/2 "2010-06-16T23:46:52Z")
I forgot to give an example. > [@FindLaw text of Stenberg](#): > > The Constitution offers basic protection to a woman’s right to choose whether to have an abortion. Roe v. Wade, 410 U. S. 113; Planned Parenthood of Southeastern Pa. v. Casey, 505 U. S. 833. Before fetal viability, a woman has a right to terminate her pregnancy, id., at 870 (joint opinion), and a state law is unconstitutional if it imposes on the woman’s decision an “undue burden,” i.e., if it has the purpose or effect of placing a substantial obstacle in the woman’s path, id., at 877. Postviability, the State, in promoting its interest in the potentiality of human life, may regulate, and even proscribe, abortion except where “necessary, in appropriate medical judgment, for the preservation of the [mother’s] life or health.” E.g., id., at 879. (emphasis added to relevant parts) ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/very-basic-question-about-legal-citation-and-or-precedents/543487/3 "2010-06-17T00:01:35Z")
Basically, the first number is a book volume number, the middle part (“U.S.”) is the “Reporter” the place where the opinion was published (U.S. is the Official Reporter for the Supreme Court). The last number indicates the first page on which the opinion appears. The “Id at\_\_\_” means “same source as before” (basically the same as “ibid” in academic citation styles), this time at a different page. Correct citation form is always to the exact page where the support for that reasoning can be found. A so-called “pinpoint citation” or “pincite.” \pincites are not needed if you are speaking generally about the opinion, but MOST times a pincite can be determined and the writer is just lazy when no exact page is offered \ I hope this answered your question. There are slightly different formats for lower courts but the essential principle is the same. case name, volume reporter first page, exact page (date) ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/very-basic-question-about-legal-citation-and-or-precedents/543487/4 "2010-06-17T00:06:07Z")
Excellent, thank you. Okay, now that I know what the numbers mean, how do I use them to find the relevant section. A specific example: where/how in FindLaw’s on-line text of Casey do I find “870”? ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/very-basic-question-about-legal-citation-and-or-precedents/543487/5 "2010-06-17T00:15:36Z")
You will see numbers mysteriously spinkled througout the opinion. These refer to the pages in the original print volume when it is not displayed in its original format. The below is an excerpt from the seminal case of Bob v. Wildlife Service, reported in Volume 1 of **Hello Again’s Reporter**. The decision begins on page 70. “…blah blah blah[\*72]blah blah blahblah DUCKS QUACK blah blah blahblah blah blahblah blah blahblah blah blah[\*\*13]blah blah blahblah blah blahblah blah blahblah blah blah[\*73]…” * * * ## Ultimately, Elbonia’s Appeals Court has determined that ducks quack. _Bob v. Wildlife Service_, 1 Hello Again 70, 72 (Elbonia Ct App. 2010) Online, the right page for the “duck quack” propsition is somewhere between the markers [\*72] and [\*73] ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/very-basic-question-about-legal-citation-and-or-precedents/543487/6 "2010-06-17T00:26:45Z")
But wait, you’re saying – what the hell is that [\*\*13]!? Simple. Bob v. Wildlife was also published in the Elbonian Reporter and the online version also provides pagination for that reporter. At the top of the page should be something like this: Bob v. Wildlife Service, 1 Hello Again 70, \*; 26 Elb 10, \*\* This tells you which markers to look for depending on which reporter the opinion cited. ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/very-basic-question-about-legal-citation-and-or-precedents/543487/7 "2010-06-17T00:33:54Z")
Looking over the Findlaw page, it isn;t easy to determine the actual page numbers. For Supreme Court Cases, I recommend using Cornell’s Legal Library which includes the pagination. The page numbers, formatted as [p.###] are slightly hard to see, because they aren’t in bold, but they are there. > **[Supreme Court: Table Of Contents](https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text)** ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/very-basic-question-about-legal-citation-and-or-precedents/543487/8 "2010-06-17T00:50:52Z")
Thank you so much. This is all very reassuring, actually. It _isn’t_ self-evident how to locate the relevant sections on FindLaw. ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/very-basic-question-about-legal-citation-and-or-precedents/543487/9 "2010-06-17T01:21:33Z")
> [@Hello\_Again](#): > > But wait, you’re saying – what the hell is that [\*\*13]!? Simple. Bob v. Wildlife was also published in the Elbonian Reporter and the online version also provides pagination for that reporter. At the top of the page should be something like this: > > Bob v. Wildlife Service, 1 Hello Again 70, \*; 26 Elb 10, \*\* > > This tells you which markers to look for depending on which reporter the opinion cited. The obsessively technical term is “star pagination,” if anyone’s interested. 🙂 West has tried to copyright it. ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/very-basic-question-about-legal-citation-and-or-precedents/543487/10 "2010-06-17T01:27:29Z")
Glad to be of service! Final note: the link went to the “Syllabus” or summary, of the opinion, which is not considered part of the opinion and cannot be cited to. You can jump to the opinion at the top of the page. > [@](#): > > The obsessively technical term is “star pagination,” if anyone’s interested. West has tried to copyright it. I [heart] you ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/very-basic-question-about-legal-citation-and-or-precedents/543487/11 "2010-06-17T13:54:35Z")
The above is the US style. The Common wealth style is "ABC v XYX [1999] 1 All ER 155, HL, which is 1999; year decision was reported 1: the Volume number of the reporter of that year All ER: The All England Reports 155: the page which the report begins and HL, the House of Lords. Although strictly speakig this is not part of the citation, it is alos appended so the reader can tell which courts judgement it is.