# Very basic shampoo **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 26, 2016, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/very-basic-shampoo/755764 "2016-05-26T20:21:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2016, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/very-basic-shampoo/755764/1 "2016-05-26T20:21:45Z")
If I want very basic soap, I can get Castile soap, which is free of various additives like fragrances and lathering agents. [Here](http://www.kirksnatural.com/), for example, is a brand available at my local supermarket. Is there an equivalent for shampoo? While I didn’t check every brand, all the ones I did check have numerous ingredients, including fragrances and lathering agents. Are there any that don’t have all that stuff? As far as I can tell, the only things shampoos really need is something to clean the hair and something to restore pH. I could just use regular soap for the first, so then I’d just need a very basic conditioner for the second. Perhaps this is what I should be looking for? ---
**Author:** ![MoonMoon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moonmoon/32/2959_2.png) [@MoonMoon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MoonMoon)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2016, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/very-basic-shampoo/755764/2 "2016-05-26T20:28:49Z")
Unless you have hard water, you may want to consider shampoo bars. [Examples here](http://www.applevalleynaturalsoap.com/shampoo-bars/) ---
**Author:** ![Ignotus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ecc23a/32.png) [@Ignotus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ignotus)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2016, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/very-basic-shampoo/755764/3 "2016-05-26T23:26:16Z")
Hand dishwashing detergent (without perfume and antibacterial stuff) works fine for me. Admittedly, I don’t have a lot of hair to care about nowadays. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2016, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/very-basic-shampoo/755764/4 "2016-05-26T23:43:38Z")
Back when I was a college student, in the days when women wore their hair long and straight, rinsing one’s hair with vinegar was popular. That should take care of the pH problem. ---
**Author:** ![Lasciel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e79b87/32.png) [@Lasciel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lasciel)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2016, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/very-basic-shampoo/755764/5 "2016-05-27T00:00:16Z")
Way more info than you probably wanted coming down the pike. What we think of as one monolithic entity as “soap” is actually a metric potload of various chemicals and substances that allow oils to be physically discouraged from sticking to a substance (skin, hair, clothes, dishes) so that those oils can be washed away with water. So: you’ve got your various types of soaps. Castile soap is a good example of vegetable-fat soap: it’s made of vegetable oils (traditionally olive oil from Castile, but not so much anymore). There’s lots of recipes for various vegetable soaps, and generally (tho not always) they are more gentle than the other kinds I’ll list below. Next you’ve got your animal-fat soaps. You’ll have to make these yourself, or get them from organic farms or farmer’s markets: goat-milk soap is particularly common around here. You might remember the making of soap from rendered lard in pioneer books like Little House on the Prairie. Next up are our industrial soaps: the bars you get like Ivory or Lever or Irish Spring, made from an industrial process with potash. Interestingly enough, “beauty bars” like Dove don’t actually HAVE any soap in them - that’s why they’re so gentle - they’re solid forms of moisturizer with no actual surfactants. Next we get liquid soap: basically take regular soaps and put lots of spirits of ammonia in (spirits of ammonia are also what we think of as victorian “smelling salts” oddly enough). Liquid soap is way useful, because it’s liquid, so it gets into the articles being cleaned much better than the common alternative which was solid flakes of soap. This development is what brought about shampoo, liquid hand-soap, liquid body soaps, liquid dish and laundry detergents, and all that. Yay progress! So, all soap is chemicals, and it’s all nasty when you think about it, but if you really want to be good to your skin/hair/system, you want to think about what you’re trying to achieve. If you want to be as clean as possible, an antibacterial liquid soap is your best bet (please don’t do this, it isn’t healthy.) If you want your skin or hair to be less traumatized by the surfactants you’re using to clean yourself, then go for a moisturizing soap, or a nice gentle vegetable soap like castile or a gentle animal-milk soap. If you want to skip the surfactants altogether, then you can go with something like Dove for your body, or even more old-school and rub yourself down with oils (argan is the darling of the moment, but coconut and almond are both excellent choices) and then scrape away the dead skin and dirt that are loosened by the oil massage. For your hair, lots of people are going “no-poo” (a truly unfortunate name) which is a modern re-discovery of the basic fact that people in the Dark Ages and in Shakespeare’s time knew: hair doesn’t really get horribly dirty - the SCALP gets horribly greasy. If you massage baby powder into your scalp regularly and rinse it out completely, you don’t really have to use soap to keep your hair clean, and if you go further and skip the powdering and just let it keep getting greasy, at some point it will stop getting MORE greasy and you get to decide if you can live with it at that stasis point. Most ‘no-poo’ people use conditioners labeled for fine or thin hair, or that have the words “light” or “clean” in the descriptions. Or, just use the castile soap in your hair. Take a medium or large bowl (depends on how much hair you’ve got) and make a lather with the soap in the bowl until you’ve got a nice soapy water in there, and then just wash your hair with that. Helps to have a partner for this part, because it’s just as flowing as regular water, so harder to get it into your hair unless you’ve got really long or really short hair. But it works just fine. I will say that most hair really appreciates having SOME form of conditioner, especially if you are using non-modern shampoo that doesn’t have all those nice modern additives to keep it shiny and smooth and non-frizzy. Now you know way more about soap than you ever wanted. ---
**Author:** ![Isilder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/cc9497/32.png) [@Isilder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isilder)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2016, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/very-basic-shampoo/755764/6 "2016-05-28T12:38:36Z")
Natural surfectants. > **[Blends-surfactants for shampoo and body wash-Polyglucose for mild shampoo...](https://www.theherbarie.com/Surfactants/)** > > The Herbarie sells shampoo ingredients and natural surfactants to make your own shampoo, body wash, bath products and other natural skincare and hair care products. These surfactants and other natural ingredients are used to make your own shampoo. These have scary names, and you will see some of them on the commercial products ! Another web site said “Some examples of natural surfactants are Castile Soap (general cake soap ), Yucca Extract, Soapwort, Quillaja Bark Extract” … Potassium Hydroxide produces liquid castile soap… BUT the castile soap is hydroxide in pH and not good for your hair and encourages dandruff/tinea/scalp acne ---
**Author:** ![california\_jobcase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9d8465/32.png) [@california\_jobcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/california_jobcase)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2016, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/very-basic-shampoo/755764/7 "2016-05-28T12:48:23Z")
If a shampoo is too basic, it will be a depilatory instead. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2016, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/very-basic-shampoo/755764/8 "2016-05-28T14:55:02Z")
Shampoo to _be_ a liquid detergent shampoo suitable for human cleansing does not exist in nature and is always going to be a collection of scary sounding chemicals. Here is a shampoo called [“free and clear”.](https://www.psico.com/product/free-and-clear-shampoo/?gclid=CjwKEAjwg6W6BRDn6v__7vzN9QkSJAC9l9C3l5rdVRezFhy4H6MIFmLwkeOK-vAkD9Mkbl_xN5UdjhoCHJfw_wcB) None of this (gluten?) > [@](#): > > Free of common chemical irritants found in ordinary shampoo such as: > – dyes > – fragrance > – masking fragrance > – lanolin > – parabens > – formaldehyde > – formaldehyde releasers > Free of cocamidopropyl betaine > Preservative-free > Protein-free > Sulfate-free > Phosphate-free > Gluten-free > Non-alkaline And here’s what left > [@](#): > > INGREDIENTS > > purified water, lauryl glucoside, coco glucoside, acrylates copolymer, disodium cocoyl glutamate, sodium cocoyl glycinate, glycerin, sucrose cocoate, panthenol, pentylene glycol, 1,2-hexanediol, sodium cocoyl glutamate, disodium EDTA, caprylyl glycol, sodium hydroxide, sodium chloride ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2016, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/very-basic-shampoo/755764/9 "2016-05-28T16:03:15Z")
> [@astro](#): > > None of this (gluten?) Yep. Common in ingredients in shampoos. [http://www.morroccomethod.com/blog/gluten-free-should-people-with-celiac-disease-use-gluten-free-shampoo/](http://www.morroccomethod.com/blog/gluten-free-should-people-with-celiac-disease-use-gluten-free-shampoo/) Makes things thick. Also makes hair shinier. ---
**Author:** ![lazybratsche](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ba8739/32.png) [@lazybratsche](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lazybratsche)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2016, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/very-basic-shampoo/755764/10 "2016-05-28T18:37:52Z")
A lot of shampoo uses SDS (sodium dodecyl sulfate, AKA sodium lauryl sulfate) or related detergents. That’s a pretty standard and super common detergent, though since it’s a Scary Synthetic Chemical it’s the target of a lot of fear mongering from the Natural Is Better crowd. (Admittedly, it is a fairly harsh detergent.) You can buy SDS by the 1 kg bucket for $100 from scientific chemical suppliers. I’d WAG that 100 mg would be plenty to wash your hair, so a bucket or three would be a life time supply for a total cost of $0.01 per wash. And if you have access to truly industrial quantities, I bet the bulk price is way cheaper. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2016, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/very-basic-shampoo/755764/11 "2016-05-28T21:20:02Z")
You can buy generic Johnson’s Baby Shampoo at discount stores like Dollar Tree. It doesn’t work that well on oily hair like mine but it is gentle, doesn’t have a strong smell and won’t hurt your eyes. The total cost is well under a dollar a month for one person. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2016, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/very-basic-shampoo/755764/12 "2016-05-28T23:05:50Z")
> [@astro](#): > > Shampoo to _be_ a liquid detergent shampoo suitable for human cleansing does not exist in nature and is always going to be a collection of scary sounding chemicals. Well, I knew that. Soap doesn’t occur in nature either. > [@](#): > > Here is a shampoo called [“free and clear”.](https://www.psico.com/product/free-and-clear-shampoo/?gclid=CjwKEAjwg6W6BRDn6v__7vzN9QkSJAC9l9C3l5rdVRezFhy4H6MIFmLwkeOK-vAkD9Mkbl_xN5UdjhoCHJfw_wcB) That looks like what I’m looknig for. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![usedtobe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@usedtobe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/usedtobe)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2016, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/very-basic-shampoo/755764/13 "2016-05-29T00:08:18Z")
Note: I am male and old. That said: I have not had my hair cut since 1992. Sadly, about 2/3 of it fell out in 2002, otherwise I’d have a huge mane. What I want to share: Do NOT use shampoo. Most clean your hair by stripping the skin oils which coat it - or so I was told. Anyway: I use various flavors of Suave Conditioner. Use it like shampoo - apply work it a bit, rinse immediately and thoroughly. In the hair-care world, this is known as CO (conditioner only). It is amazing how much crud any slippery, wet stuff will take away, while leaving the oils in place. p.s. - 4" past my butt. ---
**Author:** ![Nametag](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nametag/32/406_2.png) [@Nametag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nametag)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2016, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/very-basic-shampoo/755764/14 "2016-05-29T03:27:13Z")
> [@Lasciel](#): > > So: you’ve got your various types of soaps. > Castile soap is a good example of vegetable-fat soap: it’s made of vegetable oils (traditionally olive oil from Castile, but not so much anymore). There’s lots of recipes for various vegetable soaps, and generally (tho not always) they are more gentle than the other kinds I’ll list below. > > > [@](#): > > > > Rubbish. There is nothing inherently mild about vegetable soaps. > > Next you’ve got your animal-fat soaps. You’ll have to make these yourself, or get them from organic farms or farmer’s markets: goat-milk soap is particularly common around here. You might remember the making of soap from rendered lard in pioneer books like Little House on the Prairie. Rubbish again. Animal fat soap is the most common type of soap in the world. More on that… > [@](#): > > Next up are our industrial soaps: the bars you get like Ivory or Lever or Irish Spring, made from an industrial process with potash. Interestingly enough, “beauty bars” like Dove don’t actually HAVE any soap in them - that’s why they’re so gentle - they’re solid forms of moisturizer with no actual surfactants. Dear god, what dreck. First of all, the vast majority of “industrial soaps” are the exact same animal fat & sodium lye soaps made by your back-country artisans. We produce shit-tons of tallow and lard in this country, and we make soap out of it. As for the absurd claim about Dove, here are the first nine (or eleven) ingredients of Dove Beauty Bar: Sodium Lauroyl Isethionate, Stearic Acid, Sodium Tallowate or Sodium Palmitate, Lauric Acid, Sodium Isethionate, Water, Sodium Stearate, Cocamidopropyl Betaine, Sodium Cocoate or Sodium Palm Kernelate That’s water, four synthetic detergents, two fatty acids, and between three and five kinds of soap. Sodium tallowate? Classic cow-fat soap. Sodium palmitate? Pretty much the same stuff, only from trees. Sodium stearate? Almost the same thing - purer and a little harder. Sodium cocoate and sodium palm kernelate? Same thing again, softer and faster to lather (and from trees). > [@](#): > > Next we get liquid soap: basically take regular soaps and put lots of spirits of ammonia in (spirits of ammonia are also what we think of as victorian “smelling salts” oddly enough). Liquid soap is way useful, because it’s liquid, so it gets into the articles being cleaned much better than the common alternative which was solid flakes of soap. This development is what brought about shampoo, liquid hand-soap, liquid body soaps, liquid dish and laundry detergents, and all that. Yay progress! Sheer nonsense. Liquid soap is made from vegetable oils - you’ve heard of Palmolive? - as the shorter chained and unsaturated fatty acids make soaps that are softer and dissolve more reliably in water. Modern shampoos and other liquid detergents are primarily synthetic, but they have nothing to do with spirits of ammonia. I can’t even imagine where that came from. > [@](#): > > So, all soap is chemicals, and it’s all nasty when you think about it… :rolleyes: > [@](#): > > Now you know way more about soap than you ever wanted. No one reading that would come away knowing anything about soap. The advice is so atrocious I won’t even paste it, but it’s based on the nonsense I’ve hopefully stomped on. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2016, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/very-basic-shampoo/755764/15 "2016-05-29T03:49:02Z")
> [@Nametag](#): > > Liquid soap is made from vegetable oils - you’ve heard of Palmolive? :smack: I honestly never parsed the name. Wow. ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2016, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/very-basic-shampoo/755764/16 "2016-05-29T04:04:51Z")
I use Mexican bar laundry soap (Zote) for shave shower and shampoo. Works fine. Dollar a pound. ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2016, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/very-basic-shampoo/755764/17 "2016-05-29T05:13:54Z")
I stopped using shampoo a long time ago. Mostly I wash my hair with a mixture of baking soda and water, rinsed and followed by apple cider vinegar and water and rinsed again. Once in a while I put conditioner through it, entirely on a whim because I still have some. When I run out I’ll stop doing that. By all accounts my hair looks great. I just have tomato sauce squeeze bottles full of the made up mixtures in the shower.