# "Very career limiting move" - your thoughts? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 4, 2008, 8:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/very-career-limiting-move-your-thoughts/471015 "2008-11-04T08:41:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2008, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/very-career-limiting-move-your-thoughts/471015/21 "2008-11-04T16:32:27Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > So, you don’t have the right attitude, because you don’t want to work for free. To play devil’s advocate, since the OP wants to see what the boss could be thinking, she didn’t do any work. She happened to take pictures on vacation that came out good enough to be used in a magazine. He actually did do work in writing his article, and he’s not getting credit. Perhaps he also wrote his article under the initial assumption that he would be credited, and he’s accepting that he won’t be. Why can’t she? ---
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2008, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/very-career-limiting-move-your-thoughts/471015/22 "2008-11-04T17:11:23Z")
Wow this guy is all kinds of asshole. Im’ not sure I really understand the situation though. > [@Girl\_From\_Mars](#): > > One of the projects I’m working on at the moment is a customer-facing magazine. What is that exactly? Is that like a newsletter about a company that is otherwise unrelated to the publishing industry? > [@Girl\_From\_Mars](#): > > Fastforward to last Friday, when our senior manager, feeling that for internal reasons the mag was too marketing team heavy (one other article written on a work-related feature from one colleague, and one article featuring a colleague for a family situation), ruled that no staff contributors would be credited. Huh? What does “marketing team heavy” mean? That too many people from the company were writing articles? Who normally writes the articles? And how is removing credit a solution? The articles are still there. If you don’t want staff contributions the solution is to reduce the amount of staff contributions, not have them contribute and then erase their names. 😕 :dubious: > [@Girl\_From\_Mars](#): > > I asked my manager whether this would apply to my non-work related photos, and he said yes. When I said I wasn’t comfortable with this, I was challenged as to why. My top reasons would be: 1. How the hell is getting rid of the credits a solution? 2. This is the kind of thing you send out a memo about _before_ future contributions, not after past ones. 3. You had a verbal agreement 4. If you can’t trust them to honor agreements, how can you trust them in general? 5. You were already unselfish enough by providing extra work _for free_. 6. You wish to retain copyright over the photos. > [@](#): > > “This is a very career limiting move. Very.” He replied. Wow. Dick. > [@](#): > > But… I still feel agrieved. It’s certainly the best way to keep my job - but how should I be proceeding? Besides updating the CV and clearing some of my personal things from work (done!) I would definitely make an appointment with HR to discuss the issue. But yeah, if your boss considers not kissing his ass a “career limiting move” then the damage is probably done. Start planning your exit strategy! ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_the\_Impaler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Carol\_the\_Impaler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_the_Impaler)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2008, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/very-career-limiting-move-your-thoughts/471015/23 "2008-11-04T20:05:36Z")
FYI, you can talk to HR to get it noted as part of the record, but don’t expect them to care or do anything about it. That’s not what they are there for. As to what the boss is thinking - he’s thinking he made a big boo-boo, probably didn’t even realize the photos were your personal photos, and now he can’t back down because that would make it clear he didn’t know what he was talking about and/or he doesn’t feel secure in his mind regarding the credits issue in general. He’s too proud and/or stupid to do the right thing, so he’s defensive. Or, he resents how he’s being treated and can’t do anything about it so he’s going to take it out on you. Either way, not a sign of a leader. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2008, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/very-career-limiting-move-your-thoughts/471015/24 "2008-11-04T20:59:54Z")
Update your resume and post it on the usual sites- today. Then, tell him you changed your mind and are good with it. Never say “no” to any legal demand of your boss until you have another offer in your pocket. If you get another offer before the mag is printed, then you can change your mind back. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2008, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/very-career-limiting-move-your-thoughts/471015/25 "2008-11-04T21:20:44Z")
Everyone has already said what I was thinking. Career-limiting? Your boss thinks you working on his team is your entire career; I think we can safely assume that he is full of shit. See, this is why we keep personal and professional separate. I _could_ do personal things to benefit the companies I work at, but I don’t, because sooner or later your good deed will end up biting you in the ass (usually by having the company take more and more advantage of you). ---
**Author:** ![Quercus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7ab992/32.png) [@Quercus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quercus)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2008, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/very-career-limiting-move-your-thoughts/471015/26 "2008-11-04T21:57:55Z")
I think it’s been said what your boss is thinking: “I (and everyone else) gave up credit; why is GFM trying to be selfish”. And it sounds like he’s just trying to carry out his boss’s instructions about ‘no credits’, and now he’s feeling trapped: if he credits you, he’s not doing what his boss told him (uh-oh), and if he doesn’t, you take your pictures and he’s down a feature (double uh-oh). What would I do? Mostly, decide how much it’s worth to you to take a stand here. Companies will always try and get as much as they can out of employees; sometimes it’s just something you put up with to make up for the fact that they pay you, and sometimes you draw the line. But in either case, I would try and forget the ‘career limiting move’ bullshit, then talk with my boss, to first let him know that I understand that he’s just trying to satisfy his boss, and then to try and give him some good reasons for you to get credit (“Look, it’s not that I need the glory of all my coworkers telling me how great my photos are; I just want to make sure there aren’t any future issues with who has the rights…”). Ideally, you could find something that satisfies both your boss’s boss and you. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/very-career-limiting-move-your-thoughts/471015/27 "2008-11-05T07:41:06Z")
Speaking as someone who has limited his career opportunities **plenty** of times, I can tell you that you should quit, right now. There are other jobs, other bosses. You don’t have to work there, and you don’t have to work for an asshole. ---
**Author:** ![Kaio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c68b51/32.png) [@Kaio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaio)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 8:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/very-career-limiting-move-your-thoughts/471015/28 "2008-11-05T08:15:57Z")
Lessee… You own the copyright. This was **not work-for-hire** , and in fact was completely unrelated to your job description with the company. You agreed to grant the magazine a limited license on your copyrighted materials for $0 and copyright credit. Any other photographer or licensing agency would have charged him $3000 and copyright credit. And he’s _whining_ about it?? On the other hand, since you have no written agreement, you’re not bound by it either. 😛 It may be too late to point this out to bossman, but there is a _legal difference_ between work-for-hire and a license for existing materials. He can’t legally use them without a license agreement from you. In writing. ---
**Author:** ![Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hilarity_n.suze/32/6223_2.png) [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hilarity_N.Suze)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 8:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/very-career-limiting-move-your-thoughts/471015/29 "2008-11-05T08:48:51Z")
What Snowboard Bo said: Quit. And take your pictures with you. Or get credit. Everybody should get credit, but it sounds like they don’t want the magazine to look totally staff-written. But still. Photo credits are small, nobody reads them, and it doesn’t cost anything to have it on there, so your boss is being unreasonable. I would so not want to be on his team… ---
**Author:** ![jellyblue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e480ec/32.png) [@jellyblue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jellyblue)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 9:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/very-career-limiting-move-your-thoughts/471015/30 "2008-11-05T09:28:35Z")
Let them publish them uncredited. Then sue them. ---
**Author:** ![Girl\_From\_Mars](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3da27b/32.png) [@Girl\_From\_Mars](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Girl_From_Mars)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 10:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/very-career-limiting-move-your-thoughts/471015/31 "2008-11-05T10:05:28Z")
Update from today: discussed the situation with a close colleague, one who had copped a load of ire from him after I went home the other day. She, like me and **Boy from Mars** thought it was not important enough to lose my job over. I talked to our agency about options, but they either involved using my name, or a pseudonym, both of which I felt would violate the spirit of what our senior manager had directed, so I decided to just let it go. Boss rang later today, and when I told him my decision, he suggested running my name up the side of the photos, instead of on the contributors page. I insisted that it wasn’t necessary, but he’s happy to progress with that. I guess he’s feeling more reasonable after sleeping on it. Will be treading very carefully from here on in, but fingers crossed this is detante. Would be good to have a job if I look for another. ---
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 10:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/very-career-limiting-move-your-thoughts/471015/32 "2008-11-05T10:31:02Z")
> [@Girl\_From\_Mars](#): > > Boss rang later today, and when I told him my decision, he suggested running my name up the side of the photos, instead of on the contributors page. I think that’s reasonable, maybe even preferable. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/very-career-limiting-move-your-thoughts/471015/33 "2008-11-05T20:05:42Z")
> [@Girl\_From\_Mars](#): > > \ > > Will be treading very carefully from here on in, but fingers crossed this is detante. Would be good to have a job if I look for another. What’s that saying? “When someone shows you who they are, it’s your job to see it.” If you stay at this job, I suggest you write out this whole episode and keep it nearby, to remind yourself in the future who your boss really is. It’s funny how selective our memories get. (I ran across something I had written from my last job yesterday - I was truly surprised at how much I hated that job. I had definitely softened it in my mind.) ---
**Author:** ![Kaio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c68b51/32.png) [@Kaio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaio)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/very-career-limiting-move-your-thoughts/471015/34 "2008-11-05T20:33:15Z")
I’m glad things got sorted out so well. I agree that having your copyright credit right alongside the photos is preferable anyway. However I would strongly suggest that if something like this ever happens in the future, and you’re asked for material contribution that isn’t work-for-hire, that you either decline from the get-go or get the whole thing in writing. Companies love to interpret these sorts of things in their favor (that is, anything of yours that they want is _obviously_ a part of your regular job duties/description and therefore work-for-hire and therefore really theirs), so it’s up to you to make things crystal clear with them. This is being fair to them, too, since if you hash it out and write it down from the start, they’re not later going along thinking you agreed to something you didn’t or misinterpreting your position. Far less of a headache for your boss, too, if he’d understood from the start that a free usage license was at the “cost” of being credited. (Which is, as far as I’m concerned, not only being a team player but going above and beyond, and it’s a pity he didn’t see that.) ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/very-career-limiting-move-your-thoughts/471015/35 "2008-11-05T23:01:45Z")
> [@jellyblue](#): > > Let them publish them uncredited. Then sue them. Yeah, because what GFM needs is a long drawn out lawsuit that she will lose. Great advice. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/very-career-limiting-move-your-thoughts/471015/36 "2008-11-05T23:08:43Z")
> [@Girl\_From\_Mars](#): > > Would be good to have a job if I look for another. Like I said- update your resume and post it. Don’t quit until you have an offer in hand. ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/very-career-limiting-move-your-thoughts/471015/37 "2008-11-05T23:12:48Z")
There is a lesson here somewhere for next time. For me it would be a contribution credit (with copyright attached) with or without payment. Of course, you can avoid the next time by never offering your own photos again. Oh, yeah. Start looking for another job now. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/very-career-limiting-move-your-thoughts/471015/38 "2008-11-05T23:37:20Z")
> [@Girl\_From\_Mars](#): > > Boss rang later today, and when I told him my decision, he suggested running my name up the side of the photos, instead of on the contributors page. I insisted that it wasn’t necessary, but he’s happy to progress with that. I guess he’s feeling more reasonable after sleeping on it. > > Will be treading very carefully from here on in, but fingers crossed this is detante. Would be good to have a job if I look for another. That’s good. I’m not a marketing people, but I have worked with a lot of them, and I’ve observed that they often do uncredited work. For instance, they will often write a lot of a paper with a customer, and give the customer first authorship. I edit a column, usually submitted, and I’ve done major rewrites or even written huge chunks of it. Since I’m the editor, it is not appropriate to put my name on it. If I understand my copyright law correctly, you own the copyright on your pictures unless you explicitly transfer it to your employer (assuming you haven’t signed an agreement when you started working giving them rights to all pictures you take.) I assume they copyright the magazine, and I’m not a lawyer so I don’t know who owns what. Still, no one should reproduce it without permission, no matter whose name is on it, and if someone wants to buy the rights, you should get the money. Thats ethics though, not law. I even wrote a talk once for my exec-VP, and I’m not in PR. That is very common. I’m not complaining, because I got promoted right after he gave it. There is a big difference between being an employee and being a freelancer. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/very-career-limiting-move-your-thoughts/471015/39 "2008-11-05T23:42:49Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > No staff get credit is a way to, ah, manage turnover. It prevents staff from putting work done for the company in their portfolios, and thus makes them incrementally less hire-able elsewhere. I’m betting that a staff-written magazine (or a marketing written one) looks a lot less credible than one with contributions from real people. I was a customer adviser to a user group meeting. The company had strict rules about how many of the talks were done by the staff, since it looked bad. They would happily write a talk by a customer and take no credit. If you are an employee who acts like a freelancer, soon you will be one. 😉 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/very-career-limiting-move-your-thoughts/471015.md?page=1)