# Very simple grammar question **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 28, 2000, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/very-simple-grammar-question/27171 "2000-07-28T07:02:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![gabbyhayes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de0a6/32.png) [@gabbyhayes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gabbyhayes)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2000, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/very-simple-grammar-question/27171/21 "2000-07-28T18:28:47Z")
Spelling matters and punctuation matters. My response to the conundrum is that if you are a republican, its and it’s (and its’) are interchangeable (and so are your, you’re, youre, and yore). If you are an educated person, you so signify by punctuating and spelling correctly. I developed this theory based on my many years in AOL political chat rooms. Republicans don’t give a darn about spelling, even when they’re (their, there, thayr) decrying the poor (pore pour pou’re) education standards (standerds stand’rds) in American educational institutions. Generally, the more distressed the spelling, the more wild-haired the punctuation, the further rightward the person can be assumed to be on the Jesus/Atilla scale. ---
**Author:** ![v.o.r](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@v.o.r](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/v.o.r)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2000, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/very-simple-grammar-question/27171/22 "2000-07-28T18:39:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by RM Mentock \* > \*\*Hmm, didn’t seem to phase him a bit. You should of said it louder. \*\* Uhh…don’t you mean, “You should HAVE said it louder?” That “of” is a common mistake from using the contraction, ‘should’ve’. ---
**Author:** ![Boris\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/fbc32d/32.png) [@Boris\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boris_B)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2000, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/very-simple-grammar-question/27171/23 "2000-07-28T19:00:40Z")
I think RM Mentock was making a grammatical satire. He used “phased” where “fazed” would have been correct, just as he used “of” where “have” would have been correct. Sort of like the examples of grammatical rules I saw, each rule containing the error it proposed to ban: Avoid run-on sentences run-on sentences are hard to read. Sentence fragments also bad. Chek yor speling carfuly tu avoide erors. All so Czech four wyrd substitutions, witch R the use of the correct spelling of the wrong wyrd. Comma splices are confusing, they should be avoided. They can be corrected, insert coordinating or subordinating conjunctions to do so. Also don’t, put in, extraneous commas. Leaving out commas is no better as it will rob the reader of the opportunity to pause while reading which is sometimes necessary for good reading composition. That was fun. ---
**Author:** ![Boris\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/fbc32d/32.png) [@Boris\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boris_B)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2000, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/very-simple-grammar-question/27171/24 "2000-07-28T19:05:13Z")
In my penultimate satirical rule, the last word should be “comprehension” not “composition”. I suppose I just lost my composition there. I mean, my compusure. My favorite tenth grade English assignment was to write an essay using every possible grammatical error. We also wrote one using every possible stylistic error. It was a blast. ---
**Author:** ![Teach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/47e85d/32.png) [@Teach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Teach)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2000, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/very-simple-grammar-question/27171/25 "2000-07-28T19:05:27Z")
I agree with you Gabby that writing correctly spelled and punctuated text marks a person as an educated writer. I would never send out anything with errors to the public if I could help it. But let’s not go muddying the waters by making members of a certain political party the main propagators of grammatical sloppiness. I know that Dan Quayle couldn’t spell his way out of a sack of “potaoes”, but I am sure there are plenty of Republicans who could cite Strunk and White from memory. Politics aside, grammar is a big issue where I live and work. That said, I must get to bed. It’s 4:00 a.m. here in Japan. By the way, the “should of” vs. “should have” issue raised by v.o.r. is precisely the kind of pedantry I think we should avoid. Besides, we all know what RM meant and it was probably said in jest anyway. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Kentzel-Griffin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ccd318/32.png) [@John\_Kentzel-Griffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Kentzel-Griffin)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2000, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/very-simple-grammar-question/27171/26 "2000-07-28T19:12:44Z")
**Silver\_Fire** The apostrophe in “apostrophe’s” was supposed to be a joke. Perhaps not a funny one. The period – OK, I left it out. **Boris B** If I’ve told you once, I’ve told you a million times, avoid cliches like the plague. And my favorite: When dangling, you should not use participles. ---
**Author:** ![missbunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/76d3ee/32.png) [@missbunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/missbunny)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2000, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/very-simple-grammar-question/27171/27 "2000-07-28T19:14:15Z")
Y bothur to spel anything rite any more? Who cares if it’s punctuashun is done good? Every one nose whut they mean. Noone shuld of any problims to understand whut someone rites when they rite without good speling and punctuashun. Its “old-fashion”, I thinks, to spel good and use good grammer ---
**Author:** ![RM\_Mentock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e274bd/32.png) [@RM\_Mentock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RM_Mentock)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2000, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/very-simple-grammar-question/27171/28 "2000-07-28T19:16:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Teach \* > \*\*Besides, we all know what RM meant and it was probably said in jest anyway. \*\* How do you know where I was when I said it? You guys are wierding me out ---
**Author:** ![labradorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3ec8ea/32.png) [@labradorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/labradorian)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2000, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/very-simple-grammar-question/27171/29 "2000-07-28T19:22:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Teach \* > \*\*By the way, the “should of” vs. “should have” issue raised by v.o.r. is precisely the kind of pedantry I think we should avoid. Besides, we all know what RM meant and it was probably said in jest anyway. \*\* Correcting “should of” is HARDLY pedantry. One is correct, the other is illiterate nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![splatt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e495f1/32.png) [@splatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/splatt)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2000, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/very-simple-grammar-question/27171/30 "2000-07-28T19:28:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by CurtC \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > mothra wrote: > > In England, I frequently see shops selling: video’s, camera’s, CD’s, PC’s, tomato’s and banana’s to name but a handful. > > Or my favorite, from East Texas: a cup near a cash register for spare pennies, marked “Penny’s”. \*\* Aha! The owner of the shop is a gal named Penny. ---
**Author:** ![Teach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/47e85d/32.png) [@Teach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Teach)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2000, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/very-simple-grammar-question/27171/31 "2000-07-28T19:38:46Z")
Nice post, missbunny. It really does a good job of poking holes in my theory that spelling and punctuation don’t matter anymore. The problem is that I didn’t propose that ALL spelling and punctuation rules no longer apply. I only meant those that many people no longer seem to notice or care about, i.e. you’re vs. your and it’s vs. its. My point is that language changes and we may be witnessing a change that no one can stop. I imagine the grammar nazis of long ago chastened those who refused to distinguish between “thee” and “thou,” yet today we can get by with the lone second person pronoun “you.” ::really going to bed:: ---
**Author:** ![Teach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/47e85d/32.png) [@Teach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Teach)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2000, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/very-simple-grammar-question/27171/32 "2000-07-28T19:58:00Z")
::getting up again because I just had to respond:: > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by labradorian \* > Correcting “should of” is HARDLY pedantry. One is correct, the other is illiterate nonsense. \*\* I hate “should of” probably more than labradorian does. I cringe whenever I see it. I’d never hire a teacher who used it (if I were in such a position) and I always correct the error in student essays. My point is that the fight to eradicate the idiotic mistake may be futile. Many (most?) people seem to think that’s the way “should have” is written. You can’t fight the tide. ---
**Author:** ![missbunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/76d3ee/32.png) [@missbunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/missbunny)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2000, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/very-simple-grammar-question/27171/33 "2000-07-28T20:01:37Z")
I was going overboard just to make a point. However, I do think that spelling and grammar matter, and it annoys the hell out of me when I see “it’s” for “its” and “your” for “you’re,” but on a message board I think it’s not such a big deal. In the real world, though, I think that anyone who consistently makes spelling, grammar, and punctuation errors, particularly with the written word (spoken English can be a bit looser, a bit more colloquial), is just too stupid or lazy to get it right. Of course, everyone makes mistakes - it _also_ annoys the hell out of me when I post something and then find my careless errors in it. And I think people (not just me) **do** notice these little errors. Witness all the people on this board who have either corrected someone else’s grammar or punctuation, or who have started threads about how annoying it is to read a post riddled with spelling mistakes. I am not in favor of grammar police pouncing on people every time they start typing, but there is, in fact, a right way to spell and punctuate. Grammar can sometimes - not all that often - be more flexible. Now, as soon as I submit this, I will, I am sure, find a mistake or two! ---
**Author:** ![PaulYeah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e36b37/32.png) [@PaulYeah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PaulYeah)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2000, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/very-simple-grammar-question/27171/34 "2000-07-28T20:47:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Arnold Winkelried \* > \*\*Just remember this simple mnemonic: > > “Its” is “it’s” when it’s “it is”, and “its” when it’s not. \*\* I’ve always wondered why people didn’t use this simpler mnemonic: he’s, she’s, it’s his, hers, its Contractions have the apostrophe, and possessive pronouns don’t. Once you figure out the pattern, it’s quite simple. 🙂 PaulYeah ---
**Author:** ![\_Tim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/_/e47c2d/32.png) [@\_Tim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/_Tim)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2000, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/very-simple-grammar-question/27171/35 "2000-07-28T21:36:40Z")
Who will dictate grammar styles to whom? If I were to rant every time I read an error in a post, I’d do nothing else. Grammar usage on this board is the participants’ reponsibility. gabbyhayes, next time please choose another forum for your ad hominem political attacks. :wally Finally, the last word on the use of the apostrophe: [Bob the Angry Flower.](http://www.angryflower.com/bobsqu.gif) ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2000, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/very-simple-grammar-question/27171/36 "2000-07-28T22:23:50Z")
FWIW, here’s how I remember it: an apostrophe indicates where you’ve dropped one or more letters or spaces. Thus, “it is” drops a space and an i to become it’s. But the posessive doesn’t drop anything, so it’s “its”. ---
**Author:** ![Selmer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e495f1/32.png) [@Selmer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Selmer)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2000, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/very-simple-grammar-question/27171/37 "2000-07-28T23:11:00Z")
> [@](#): > > In England, I frequently see shops selling: video’s, camera’s, CD’s, PC’s, tomato’s and banana’s to name but a handful. A copyeditor friend of mine says that apostrophes are just there to warn you that an S is coming up. ---
**Author:** ![Kilgore\_Trout\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/6de8d8/32.png) [@Kilgore\_Trout\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kilgore_Trout_1)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2000, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/very-simple-grammar-question/27171/38 "2000-07-28T23:12:57Z")
> [@](#): > > Uhh…don’t you mean, “You should HAVE said it louder?” That “of” is a common mistake from using the contraction, ‘should’ve’ do i detect a whoosh? ---
**Author:** ![Danielinthewolvesden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ce7236/32.png) [@Danielinthewolvesden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Danielinthewolvesden)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2000, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/very-simple-grammar-question/27171/39 "2000-07-29T01:01:03Z")
teach: these minor grammar rules are very important. Without them, many assholes on this Board who have no way of refuting a solid, logical point. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2000, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/very-simple-grammar-question/27171/40 "2000-07-29T02:42:31Z")
I have a spelling checker. It came with my PC. It plane lee marks four my revue Miss steaks aye can knot see. Eye ran this poem threw it. Your sure real glad two no. Its very polished in its weigh, My checker tolled me sew. A checker is a blessing. It freeze yew lodes of thyme. It helps me right awl stiles two reed, And aides me when aye rime. Each frays comes posed up on my screen Eye trussed too bee a joule. The checker pours o’er every word To cheque sum spelling rule. Bee fore a veiling checkers Hour spelling mite decline, And if were laks oar have a laps, We wood bee maid too wine. Butt now bee cause my spelling Is checked with such grate flare, There are know faults with in my cite, Of none eye am a wear. Now spelling does not phase me, It does knot bring a tier. My pay purrs awl due glad den With wrapped words fare as hear. To rite with care is quite a feet Of witch won should be proud, And wee mussed dew the best wee can, Sew flaws are knot aloud. Sow ewe can sea why aye dew prays Such soft wear four pea seas, And why eye brake in two averse Buy righting want too please. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/very-simple-grammar-question/27171.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/very-simple-grammar-question/27171.md?page=3)