# Veteran learns tourism in former war zones can be risky. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [December 7, 2013, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veteran-learns-tourism-in-former-war-zones-can-be-risky/675752 "2013-12-07T15:45:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2013, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veteran-learns-tourism-in-former-war-zones-can-be-risky/675752/1 "2013-12-07T15:45:35Z")
A lot of veterans travel to former areas they served in. I guess that started with the WWII Vets? Then a lot of Viet Nam Vets have returned to Viet Nam as tourists. I hadn’t heard much about Korean Vets taking the scenic tour. Especially in the peoples paradise of North Korea. 🙂 I’m glad this old Vet got released. We don’t know yet what they did to him. I doubt he got Dennis Rodman’s VIP treatment by Kim Jong-un. It does make me wonder how safe it is for Vets in Viet Nam? Especially high ranking officers and former Special Forces guys? I once made the mistake of asking my dad if he wanted to revisit Da Nang and Nha Trang (Air Bases he served at). The look I got would have melted a snowman. There was no way in hell he wanted to see those places again. 😛 He was there in the build up in 66 and 67. Heres a short timeline as the story got reported. Nov 20 > **[Palo Alto man, 85, removed from plane, detained in North Korea](https://www.mercurynews.com/2013/11/20/palo-alto-man-85-removed-from-plane-detained-in-north-korea/)** > > Palo Alto man, 85, removed from plane, detained in North Korea Washington Post Nov 21 [http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2013/11/21/everything-we-know-about-merrill-newman-the-85-year-old-american-imprisoned-in-north-korea/](http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2013/11/21/everything-we-know-about-merrill-newman-the-85-year-old-american-imprisoned-in-north-korea/) Dec 3, his service involved training guerrilla fighters during the war. > **[Merrill Newman: North Korean captive had reached out to old comrades before trip](https://www.mercurynews.com/2013/12/03/merrill-newman-north-korean-captive-had-reached-out-to-old-comrades-before-trip/)** > > Merrill Newman: North Korean captive had reached out to old comrades before trip released > **[‘Deported’ from North Korea, American returns to the United States | CNN](https://www.cnn.com/2013/12/07/world/asia/north-korea-american-newman/)** > > Merrill Newman – the 85-year-old American detained by North Korean authorities earlier this fall – has been “deported,” North Korea’s state news agency says. > [@](#): > > Newman had traveled as a tourist to North Korea on a 10-day organized private tour of North Korea in October. From phone calls and postcards he sent, the trip was going well and there was no indication of any kind of problem, Jeff Newman said. > > The day before he was to leave, “one or two Korean authorities” met with Newman and his tour guide, the son added. They talked about Newman’s service record, which left “my dad … a bit bothered,” according to Jeff Newman. > > Then, just minutes before his Beijing-bound plane was set to depart Pyongyang in late October, he was taken off the aircraft by North Korean authorities. > > For weeks, the Pyongyang government didn’t explain why they were holding Newman. > > An explanation came a few days ago, when state media published and broadcast what they described as the Korean War veteran’s “apology.” The word was written atop the first of four handwritten pages detailing his alleged indiscretions. > [@](#): > > Six months before Merrill Newman flew to North Korea as a tourist, he reached out to surviving members of the once-top-secret guerrilla group he trained as an Army infantryman in the war six decades ago. > > “I may not be able to make this happen, but if I can, I would like to know if there is any message I can deliver and anyone special I could see,” he apparently wrote in an email released over the weekend by North Korea’s central news agency. “It was a long time ago, of course, but I have always been sorry that I did not meet the Comrades there during the times of action.” > [@](#): > > “They hated us because they knew we were leading the North Korea citizens that hated the communist form of government and we were the advisers in North Korea,” said Col. Ben Malcom, who was an infantry officer, like Newman, during the war. He wrote about his guerrilla unit in “White Tigers,” a 1996 book that inspired many of the radio and TV reports that have recently aired. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2013, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veteran-learns-tourism-in-former-war-zones-can-be-risky/675752/2 "2013-12-07T16:05:29Z")
My mom reminded me that my dad did want to visit Thailand again. He was fascinated by that country when he took his R&R there. He bought my mom a bronzeware set of flatware. Very pretty but we never actually used it. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2013, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veteran-learns-tourism-in-former-war-zones-can-be-risky/675752/3 "2013-12-07T16:15:51Z")
Just realized those Mercury News links just died. Thats the problem with the Internet. It sucks as a historical record. I just went back to google and confirmed those links had died. Pathetic. Theres plenty more sources if you want to google it. Use Custom Range to zero in on Nov 20 thru Dec 1. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2013, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veteran-learns-tourism-in-former-war-zones-can-be-risky/675752/4 "2013-12-07T16:33:35Z")
google cache for my two lost links. Its a shame those dumb asses at Mercury News destroyed the historical record. It really helps to read the story as it unfolded. Nov 20 he went missing [http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:LZy7YT0Dks8J:www.mercurynews.com/nation-world/ci\_24562019/palo-alto-man-removed-from-plane-detained-north+&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a](http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:LZy7YT0Dks8J:www.mercurynews.com/nation-world/ci_24562019/palo-alto-man-removed-from-plane-detained-north+&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a) Dec 4 his service in the War [http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:Af2cSJ4XbY8J:www.mercurynews.com/nation-world/ci\_24648886/merrill-newman-north-korean-captive-had-reached-out+&cd=5&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a](http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:Af2cSJ4XbY8J:www.mercurynews.com/nation-world/ci_24648886/merrill-newman-north-korean-captive-had-reached-out+&cd=5&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a) ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2013, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veteran-learns-tourism-in-former-war-zones-can-be-risky/675752/5 "2013-12-07T16:50:22Z")
> [@](#): > > It does make me wonder how safe it is for Vets in Viet Nam? Especially high ranking officers and former Special Forces guys? Well, when my mom visited, she found it safe enough for a 72-year-old woman. Voluntarily entering North Korea, though, is stupid for anyone. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2013, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veteran-learns-tourism-in-former-war-zones-can-be-risky/675752/6 "2013-12-07T17:09:42Z")
It does seem incredible a government would hold a 40 or even 60 year grudge against any servicemen. Even former Special Forces were just following orders. Whatever happened 50 years ago was part of a war. N Korea has been encouraging tourism for awhile. I can’t imagine why anyone would go. But there are a few that have. Cuba gets tourists too. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2013, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veteran-learns-tourism-in-former-war-zones-can-be-risky/675752/7 "2013-12-07T17:39:21Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > N Korea has been encouraging tourism for awhile. I can’t imagine why anyone would go. But there are a few that have. Cuba gets tourists too. At least Cuba is a haven for gearheads. All that Detroit iron and the jury-rigging needed to keep them in working order. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2013, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veteran-learns-tourism-in-former-war-zones-can-be-risky/675752/8 "2013-12-07T18:48:03Z")
Some new info in this homecoming article. I’d guess trying to contact individual N Koreans is what got the attention of the authorities. Not a big deal most places but N Korea is a totalitarian state. I’m glad the old guy is safe and back home. Quite an adventure for somene that is 85. > **[Palo Alto’s Merrill Newman, freed by North Korea, is back in the USA](https://www.mercurynews.com/2013/12/06/palo-altos-merrill-newman-freed-by-north-korea-is-back-in-the-usa/)** > > Palo Alto’s Merrill Newman, freed by North Korea, is back in the USA > [@](#): > > Over the past decade, Newman had traveled to South Korea twice to connect with the former rebel soldiers who had fled to the South after the war. This time, however, he apparently emailed them in advance, saying he was planning a trip to North Korea and asked if he could deliver any messages to relatives there. A copy of the purported email was released by the North Koreans and used as evidence against him of espionage. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2013, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veteran-learns-tourism-in-former-war-zones-can-be-risky/675752/9 "2013-12-07T19:48:56Z")
I would go to NK for a very strictly escorted tour - and I damned well wouldn’t break any laws that we would be warned about - I have absolutely no need to flaunt my American Citizenship and do something stupid like preach christianity, dis the powers that be or whatever other foolishness people get into. Think of it like one of those bucket lists like visit every country on earth type things. I would not encourage my husband as ex-military to go touring in any ex-comblock or current comblock country even though he is 10 years out of date on his information. ---
**Author:** ![CrazyCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@CrazyCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrazyCatLady)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2013, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veteran-learns-tourism-in-former-war-zones-can-be-risky/675752/10 "2013-12-07T19:52:59Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > There was no way in hell he wanted to see those places again. 😛 He was there in the build up in 66 and 67. My dad was Nam in 67 and 68, and the entire contents of Fort Knox wouldn’t be enough to tempt me to ask the question, much less get him to go back. ---
**Author:** ![computergeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e56c9b/32.png) [@computergeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/computergeek)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2013, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veteran-learns-tourism-in-former-war-zones-can-be-risky/675752/11 "2013-12-07T20:22:19Z")
It seems like Newman accidentally stepped in it by contacting people, which made the North Koreans rather prickly. He probably had no idea the danger he put himself in. Anywhere else probably wouldn’t have caused any problems, but this is North Korea. Of course, the North Koreans didn’t do themselves any favors by taking the old guy into custody, though they probably felt they got some propaganda out of the video they made of him “apologizing”. Dumb actions all around, and now there will probably be less Americans going to NK just to be safe. ---
**Author:** ![computergeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e56c9b/32.png) [@computergeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/computergeek)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2013, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veteran-learns-tourism-in-former-war-zones-can-be-risky/675752/12 "2013-12-07T20:24:39Z")
As for Vietnam, they seem to have a forgive and forget kind of attitude about the war. I haven’t heard of any American serviceman visiting there having any kind of real trouble with the authorities. ---
**Author:** ![vontsira](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/51bf81/32.png) [@vontsira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vontsira)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2013, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veteran-learns-tourism-in-former-war-zones-can-be-risky/675752/13 "2013-12-07T21:56:02Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > I would go to NK for a very strictly escorted tour - and I damned well wouldn’t break any laws that we would be warned about - I have absolutely no need to flaunt my American Citizenship and do something stupid like preach christianity, dis the powers that be or whatever other foolishness people get into. Think of it like one of those bucket lists like visit every country on earth type things. I would not encourage my husband as ex-military to go touring in any ex-comblock or current comblock country even though he is 10 years out of date on his information. Am just curious, and would be grateful for my ignorance – if it is that – to be corrected: I was under the impression that US citizens were forbidden to visit North Korea under any circumstances. (Clearly Mr. Newman managed it, though it turned out a not altogether happy experience for him.) I, like aruvqan, would love to visit North Korea as a tourist, if I could afford the immense cost – in the kind of “interesting visit to a lunatic asylum” spirit, and while there, I’d – likewise – meticulously keep quiet and fit in. I’m British, and was a small child at the time of the Korean War, so presumably none of that stuff would be a problem. Just didn’t realise that there was any possibility for Americans, of so doing… ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2013, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veteran-learns-tourism-in-former-war-zones-can-be-risky/675752/14 "2013-12-07T22:59:51Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > It does seem incredible a government would hold a 40 or even 60 year grudge against any servicemen. Even former Special Forces were just following orders. Whatever happened 50 years ago was part of a war. [Um…](http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/Wiesenthalreport.html) ‘I was just following orders’ is not an excuse. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2013, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veteran-learns-tourism-in-former-war-zones-can-be-risky/675752/15 "2013-12-07T23:18:11Z")
Unfortunate, but a foolish old man who should have been repeatedly and firmly warned that This Will Not End Well. I can only assume he ignored all of those warnings. ---
**Author:** ![chizzuk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e36b37/32.png) [@chizzuk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chizzuk)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2013, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veteran-learns-tourism-in-former-war-zones-can-be-risky/675752/16 "2013-12-07T23:28:10Z")
I honestly have no idea what Newman was thinking by going. Even the slightest bit of research into North Korea will tell you that the war is not something old from 60 years ago for them–the “Victorious Fatherland Liberation War” is a central piece of their national narrative, a central reason for their pervasive anti-US propaganda, and impacted almost every family there. It wasn’t a big deal in US history, but it is everything for the North Koreans. They aren’t gong to forgive or forget. I’m glad Newman made it out okay, but he made a very stupid decision to go at all. What happened was pretty predictable. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2013, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veteran-learns-tourism-in-former-war-zones-can-be-risky/675752/17 "2013-12-07T23:31:29Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > [Um…](http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/Wiesenthalreport.html) > > ‘I was just following orders’ is not an excuse. It is an interesting point. To the North Koreans his actions are quite akin to that of a “I was just following orders” German solider. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2013, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veteran-learns-tourism-in-former-war-zones-can-be-risky/675752/18 "2013-12-08T01:24:25Z")
> [@astro](#): > > It is an interesting point. To the North Koreans his actions are quite akin to that of a “I was just following orders” German solider. Perhaps. But if I recall my History, North Korea was the aggressor. I think that gives them less room to complain – especially since they captured a military man who was fighting against military targets; unlike the Germans who were executing civilians. The Germans were also executing partisans and other ‘terrorists’. Many Germans were tried for war crimes for that. Personally, I think there is some justification for executing guerillas. I’m sure that if they caught a Brit or American in uniform with them, they’d execute him too. War crime, or not? It’s a violation of the Geneva Conventions. So yeah, I think the North Koreans are carrying a grudge too far; but ‘I was only following orders’ is too close for my liking to what the Nazis did. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2013, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veteran-learns-tourism-in-former-war-zones-can-be-risky/675752/19 "2013-12-08T01:34:18Z")
I was only considering acts of war when I made the comment about following orders. The article said this guy and other Americans were training Korean guerrilla fighters. They were operating behind enemy lines blowing up bridges and other sabotage. Standard military tactics. What the Nazis did in those concentration camps was genocide. That was carried out by criminals that didn’t deserve to wear a soldier’s uniform. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2013, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veteran-learns-tourism-in-former-war-zones-can-be-risky/675752/20 "2013-12-08T01:41:43Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > What the Nazis did in those concentration camps was genocide. That was carried out by criminals that didn’t deserve to wear a soldier’s uniform. Those were the more egregious acts. But there were summary executions of partisans all the time. The partisans were engaging in ‘standard military tactics’, as you say; but Germans were prosecuted for executing them. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veteran-learns-tourism-in-former-war-zones-can-be-risky/675752.md?page=2)