# Veto HR 4681, aka The Intelligence Authorization Act--URGENT **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [December 14, 2014, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veto-hr-4681-aka-the-intelligence-authorization-act-urgent/707246 "2014-12-14T23:59:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2014, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veto-hr-4681-aka-the-intelligence-authorization-act-urgent/707246/1 "2014-12-14T23:59:03Z")
Protect our privacy and please veto HR 4681, aka The Intelligence Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2015. ``` Congress has quietly passed an Intelligence Authorization Bill that grants the executive branch unlimited warrentless access to the communications of every single American and gives this information to not just federal agencies but to local law enforcement as well. Similar powers have been asserted by executive order before nothing on this level has ever been passed by Congress and for it to pass without so much as a debate is completely unjustifiable. At the last moment representative Justin Amash found the true intent of the bill and was able to make a motion to reconsider. The bill has passed but has not yet been sent to the president to sign, we still barely have the ability to change the original vote but you need to contact your representative immediately and let them know that the bill in it’s current form is completely unacceptable. Failure to act now will lead to the bill being sent to the president. ``` Contact your Congressman! The vote to reconsider can still block this. A Petition is up on [Whitehouse.gov](http://Whitehouse.gov) Don’t ignore this, & get the word out, ASAP! ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veto-hr-4681-aka-the-intelligence-authorization-act-urgent/707246/2 "2014-12-15T00:35:39Z")
Here’s the petition. [link removed] I haven’t read the actual bill yet. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veto-hr-4681-aka-the-intelligence-authorization-act-urgent/707246/3 "2014-12-15T00:45:41Z")
> [@Eva\_Luna](#): > > [removed link] I haven’t read the actual bill yet. Apparently, neither did Congress. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veto-hr-4681-aka-the-intelligence-authorization-act-urgent/707246/4 "2014-12-15T01:03:05Z")
[Here’s the bill.](https://www.congress.gov/bill/113th-congress/house-bill/4681/text) The objectionable section reads: "SEC. 309. PROCEDURES FOR THE RETENTION OF INCIDENTALLY ACQUIRED COMMUNICATIONS. (a) Definitions.–In this section: (1) Covered communication.–The term `covered communication'' means any nonpublic telephone or electronic communication acquired without the consent of a person who is a party to the communication, including communications in electronic storage. (2) Head of an element of the intelligence community.--The term `head of an element of the intelligence community’’ means, as appropriate– (A) the head of an element of the intelligence community; or (B) the head of the department or agency containing such element. (3) United states person.–The term ``United States person’’ has the meaning given that term in section 101 of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 (50 U.S.C. 1801). (b) Procedures for Covered Communications.– (1) Requirement to adopt.–Not later than 2 years after the date of the enactment of this Act each head of an element of the intelligence community shall adopt procedures approved by the Attorney General for such element that ensure compliance with the requirements of paragraph (3). (2) Coordination and approval.–The procedures required by paragraph (1) shall be– (A) prepared in coordination with the Director of National Intelligence; and (B) approved by the Attorney General prior to issuance. (3) Procedures.– (A) Application.–The procedures required by paragraph (1) shall apply to any intelligence collection activity not otherwise authorized by court order (including an order or certification issued by a court established under subsection (a) or (b) of section 103 of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 (50 U.S.C. 1803)), subpoena, or similar legal process that is reasonably anticipated to result in the acquisition of a covered communication to or from a United States person and shall permit the acquisition, retention, and dissemination of covered communications subject to the limitation in subparagraph (B). (B) Limitation on retention.–A covered communication shall not be retained in excess of 5 years, unless– (i) the communication has been affirmatively determined, in whole or in part, to constitute foreign intelligence or counterintelligence or is necessary to understand or assess foreign intelligence or counterintelligence; (ii) the communication is reasonably believed to constitute evidence of a crime and is retained by a law enforcement agency; (iii) the communication is enciphered or reasonably believed to have a secret meaning; (iv) all parties to the communication are reasonably believed to be non-United States persons; (v) retention is necessary to protect against an imminent threat to human life, in which case both the nature of the threat and the information to be retained shall be reported to the congressional intelligence committees not later than 30 days after the date such retention is extended under this clause; (vi) retention is necessary for technical assurance or compliance purposes, including a court order or discovery obligation, in which case access to information retained for technical assurance or compliance purposes shall be reported to the congressional intelligence committees on an annual basis; or (vii) retention for a period in excess of 5 years is approved by the head of the element of the intelligence community responsible for such retention, based on a determination that retention is necessary to protect the national security of the United States, in which case the head of such element shall provide to the congressional intelligence committees a written certification describing– ``` (I) the reasons extended retention is necessary to protect the national security of the United States; (II) the duration for which the head of the element is authorizing retention; (III) the particular information to be retained; and (IV) the measures the element of the intelligence community is taking to protect the privacy interests of United States persons or persons located inside the United States." ``` ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veto-hr-4681-aka-the-intelligence-authorization-act-urgent/707246/5 "2014-12-15T15:05:58Z")
> [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](#): > > ``` > Congress has quietly passed an Intelligence Authorization Bill that grants the executive branch **unlimited** warrentless access to the communications of every single American and gives this information to not just federal agencies but to local law enforcement as well. > > ``` Unlimited? > [@Eva\_Luna](#): > > ``` > (B) Limitation on retention.--A covered communication shall > not be retained in excess of 5 years, unless-- > (i) the communication has been affirmatively > determined, in whole or in part, to constitute foreign > intelligence or counterintelligence or is necessary to > understand or assess foreign intelligence or > counterintelligence; > (ii) the communication is reasonably believed to > constitute evidence of a crime and is retained by a law > enforcement agency; > (iii) the communication is enciphered or reasonably > believed to have a secret meaning; > (iv) all parties to the communication are reasonably > believed to be non-United States persons; > (v) retention is necessary to protect against an > imminent threat to human life, in which case both the > nature of the threat and the information to be retained > shall be reported to the congressional intelligence > committees not later than 30 days after the date such > retention is extended under this clause; > (vi) retention is necessary for technical assurance or > compliance purposes, including a court order or discovery > obligation, in which case access to information retained > for technical assurance or compliance purposes shall be > reported to the congressional intelligence committees on an > annual basis; or > (vii) retention for a period in excess of 5 years is > approved by the head of the element of the intelligence > community responsible for such retention, based on a > determination that retention is necessary to protect the > national security of the United States, in which case the > head of such element shall provide to the congressional > intelligence committees a written certification > describing..... > > ``` Those seem like limits to me. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veto-hr-4681-aka-the-intelligence-authorization-act-urgent/707246/6 "2014-12-15T15:16:08Z")
“Limitation on retention.–A covered communication shall not be retained in excess of 5 years, unless…” That’s not a limitation in acquiring the communication, it’s a limitation in holding the communication. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veto-hr-4681-aka-the-intelligence-authorization-act-urgent/707246/7 "2014-12-15T15:42:19Z")
> [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](#): > > Congress has quietly passed an Intelligence Authorization Bill that grants the executive branch unlimited warrentless access to the communications of every single American and gives this information to not just federal agencies but to local law enforcement as well. nm. This kind of hysteria can’t be argued with. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veto-hr-4681-aka-the-intelligence-authorization-act-urgent/707246/8 "2014-12-15T22:26:25Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > nm. This kind of hysteria can’t be argued with. > > Regards, > Shodan **Shodan** –this boill was passed in Congress with no public debate, & little indication that most Congressmen had read it. [http://www.scmagazine.com/opponents-argue-act-expands-executive-branch-authority/article/388185/](http://www.scmagazine.com/opponents-argue-act-expands-executive-branch-authority/article/388185/) > [@](#): > > Rep. Justin Amash (R.-Mich.) called the act “one of the most egregious sections of law I’ve encountered during my time as a representative.” The Congressman contended that the legislation “grants the executive branch virtually unlimited access to the communications of every American.” That’s a premise that doesn’t sit well with some members of Congress and the American public, still stinging from revelations from Snowden documents on widespread government surveillance. > > * * * > > At issue is the new Section 309 added by Feinstein’s committee, which Amash noted “authorizes ‘the acquisition, retention, and dissemination’ of nonpublic communications, including those to and from U.S. persons.” That, he said, means that “those private communications of Americans, obtained without a court order, may be transferred to domestic law enforcement for criminal investigations.” ---
**Author:** ![GreasyJack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/df705f/32.png) [@GreasyJack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreasyJack)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veto-hr-4681-aka-the-intelligence-authorization-act-urgent/707246/9 "2014-12-15T23:45:46Z")
At the risk of proving **Shodan** right… My understanding of what this particular bit of legislation allows is if during the course of foreign surveillance an intelligence agency stumbles upon something of interest to domestic law enforcement, they can retain it for up to five years. If the domestic law enforcement agency actually wants to use it, they still have to get a warrant and plus they have to discover it somehow existed in the first place. I agree there’s several ways this could be abused, and the whole idea of warrantless foreign wiretaps in general is of course problematic, but the claim that this amounts to “unlimited warrantless access to the communications of all Americans” is absurd. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2014, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veto-hr-4681-aka-the-intelligence-authorization-act-urgent/707246/10 "2014-12-16T00:00:15Z")
> [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](#): > > **Shodan** –this boill was passed in Congress with no public debate, & little indication that most Congressmen had read it. > > [http://www.scmagazine.com/opponents-argue-act-expands-executive-branch-authority/article/388185/](http://www.scmagazine.com/opponents-argue-act-expands-executive-branch-authority/article/388185/) Sure, but where in the language does it say that the NSA can collect anything it wants? I don’t see it. Also, the bill passed the Senate unanimously. Why do you suppose Senator Wyden, an NSA critic and member of the committee that wrote the bill, hasn’t said anything about this? ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2014, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veto-hr-4681-aka-the-intelligence-authorization-act-urgent/707246/11 "2014-12-16T03:41:01Z")
Per the [registration agreement](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=650726): > [@](#): > > Do not post spam, including but not limited to advertisements, chain letters, pyramid schemes, solicitations, offers to trade or barter, charitable appeals, or other _ **messages primarily intended to promote a cause** _, venture, organization, event (except Straight Dope-related events), website, or other entity or activity, whether or not money is involved. [emphasis added] I’m closing this thread – if anyone wants to discuss this bill, you may start a thread in Great Debates.