# Viability of a two state Israel Palestine solution in the moderate term **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Tags:** israel-hamas-war\ **Created:** [January 31, 2024, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/viability-of-a-two-state-israel-palestine-solution-in-the-moderate-term/996923 "2024-01-31T18:06:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2024, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/viability-of-a-two-state-israel-palestine-solution-in-the-moderate-term/996923/121 "2024-02-05T16:12:17Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > I have _lots_ of criticism for UNWRA - the corruption and nepotism is a big one - but that Palestinians are still considered refugees, or that the camps are built-up cities now, are neither of them. The problem I have with that is that in my view this sort of framing hampers the peace process. It creates this paradigm where the Palestinians cannot build up Palestine to be a prosperous place without claiming all of Israel, too; and as I’ve said before, anyone who hampers the path to a two state solution is an enemy of peace in my book. Obviously this is far from the _only_ thing standing in the way of a two state solution. Israeli settler ideology is also cancerous, and for the exact same reason. And other Israeli policies that prevent Palestinians from achieving a higher quality of life are also destructive. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2024, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/viability-of-a-two-state-israel-palestine-solution-in-the-moderate-term/996923/122 "2024-02-05T17:24:31Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > It creates this paradigm where the Palestinians cannot build up Palestine to be a prosperous place without claiming all of Israel, too; _All_ of Israel is not the same as the parts Palestinians were driven from. As I’ve frequently been told in these threads, there were plenty of Jewish pre-1948 settlements, large parts of the Mandate were empty anyway, and subsequently Israel has made places that were complete desert bloom. If Israel can’t see itself allowing Palestinians back as citizens, it’s not like Israel can’t give some territory back. I mean, it’s not like Israel will have to give _all_ of it. There are less and less Palestinian claimants with each passing day, for some reason. ---
**Author:** ![nicky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f0a364/32.png) [@nicky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nicky)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2024, 8:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/viability-of-a-two-state-israel-palestine-solution-in-the-moderate-term/996923/123 "2024-02-06T08:58:16Z")
Why is my plan a joke? Its practical, financially viable, and gets to the root of the problem - a large population in a resource poor land. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2024, 9:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/viability-of-a-two-state-israel-palestine-solution-in-the-moderate-term/996923/124 "2024-02-06T09:13:59Z")
> [@Dissonance](#): > > Does the Quran count? [Gharqad](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gharqad): Just as point of fact, that is not in the Quran. As that cite notes, it comes from ahadith which by definition are non-Quranic. A very weak parallel might be arguments over Apocrypha in the Christian tradition. [So accepted as canonical by some and not others (and even among those that accept some or many of them, there is debate over which to accept)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_hadith) ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2024, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/viability-of-a-two-state-israel-palestine-solution-in-the-moderate-term/996923/125 "2024-02-06T12:48:57Z")
Y’know that land you’ve been fighting over? Just give it up and move somewhere else! How is your plan substantially different than Sheldon Cooper’s plan to move all the Jews to New Mexico and thus win the Nobel prize? ---
**Author:** ![nicky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f0a364/32.png) [@nicky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nicky)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2024, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/viability-of-a-two-state-israel-palestine-solution-in-the-moderate-term/996923/126 "2024-02-06T13:53:32Z")
The difference is the Palestinians have already lost the land. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2024, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/viability-of-a-two-state-israel-palestine-solution-in-the-moderate-term/996923/127 "2024-02-06T14:29:21Z")
Wrong- they’ve lost MOST of the land. They seem unwilling to give up the rest. Your ‘solution’ is ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![nicky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f0a364/32.png) [@nicky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nicky)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2024, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/viability-of-a-two-state-israel-palestine-solution-in-the-moderate-term/996923/128 "2024-02-06T18:07:10Z")
Ok , kindly name the more plausible peace plans ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2024, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/viability-of-a-two-state-israel-palestine-solution-in-the-moderate-term/996923/129 "2024-02-06T18:13:17Z")
Tip: when trying to sell people on your brilliant peace plan, smoother not to open with the ethnic cleansing. ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2024, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/viability-of-a-two-state-israel-palestine-solution-in-the-moderate-term/996923/130 "2024-02-06T20:58:40Z")
> [@nicky](#): > > Why is my plan a joke? It demonstrates a complete lack of understanding of the situation. It’s on par with looking back at the financial cost of the Vietnam War and deciding that the way to win the war would have been for the US to pay everyone in North Vietnam $100,000 to not try to forcibly reunite the country and not understanding why that isn’t a realistic possibility. ---
**Author:** ![nicky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f0a364/32.png) [@nicky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nicky)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2024, 8:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/viability-of-a-two-state-israel-palestine-solution-in-the-moderate-term/996923/131 "2024-02-07T08:41:45Z")
You know you _lost_ the war , right ? ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2024, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/viability-of-a-two-state-israel-palestine-solution-in-the-moderate-term/996923/132 "2024-02-07T14:06:30Z")
One would think that was obvious considering I was comparing how your plan is a joke to a plan to win the war in Vietnam that is equally detached from any concerns with reality. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2024, 11:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/viability-of-a-two-state-israel-palestine-solution-in-the-moderate-term/996923/133 "2024-02-23T11:00:15Z")
The brutal truth is that their is going to be no viable two state solution until the following happens 1. Palestinian ‘Man in the street’ Accepts Israels right to exist. 2. Right of return to Israel proper is not going to happen ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2024, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/viability-of-a-two-state-israel-palestine-solution-in-the-moderate-term/996923/134 "2024-02-23T15:19:00Z")
A lot of Palestinian “men in the street” work in “Israel proper”, that is economic reality. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2024, 8:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/viability-of-a-two-state-israel-palestine-solution-in-the-moderate-term/996923/135 "2024-02-24T08:16:09Z")
Working to survive doest mean they accept Israels existence ---
**Author:** ![WreckingCrew](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wreckingcrew/32/4080_2.png) [@WreckingCrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WreckingCrew)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2024, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/viability-of-a-two-state-israel-palestine-solution-in-the-moderate-term/996923/136 "2024-02-24T16:25:05Z")
I believe DPRK’s comment was referring to the reality that Israel is dependent on cheap Palestinian labor. So similar to the current US border issues, Israel will either need to come to some terms with Palestinians crossing the border for work, or find a new source or cheap labor, or deal with rising labor costs. Here is a cite about that reality, and one step Israel is trying to take. [https://www.npr.org/2024/02/17/1229525320/india-israel-hamas-war-jobs-migrant-workers#:~:text=Israel%20and%20India%20inked%20the,of%20its%20relatively%20high%20wages.](https://www.npr.org/2024/02/17/1229525320/india-israel-hamas-war-jobs-migrant-workers#:~:text=Israel%20and%20India%20inked%20the,of%20its%20relatively%20high%20wages.) ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2024, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/viability-of-a-two-state-israel-palestine-solution-in-the-moderate-term/996923/137 "2024-02-25T01:02:43Z")
It should work the other way, too: many Palestinians are dependent on working at jobs in Israel because that is where many OK-, if not always spectacularly well-, paying jobs are. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2024, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/viability-of-a-two-state-israel-palestine-solution-in-the-moderate-term/996923/138 "2024-03-19T16:51:24Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Why not focus on making Gaza (and the West Bank) places that Palestinians will prosper in? That should be the mission of the UNRWA or any group like it, not locking in the status quo and letting Palestinians fester so the opportunity to use them to wipe out Israel in the future isn’t lost. Serious question: what do you think the UNRWA should have been doing differently? As I understand it, their chief task is providing aid and building infrastructure. I get that you object to the political implications of them calling places “refugee camps” rather than “cities”, but are there, in your opinion, ways that the actual aid distribution and infrastructure building should have been done differently? ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2024, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/viability-of-a-two-state-israel-palestine-solution-in-the-moderate-term/996923/139 "2024-03-20T01:18:03Z")
> [@Thing.Fish](#): > > Serious question: what do you think the UNRWA should have been doing differently? For starters, making sure that their employees are not Hamas terrorists. Second, setting up a distribution system directly to the people, which does not go,through Hamas. The key grift in Gaza has been diverting aid funds to buy weapons and build tunnels, while the leaders skim off a substantial portion for themselves. This has been going on for decades. Hamas has no interest in producing a better life for Gazans. The more miserable they are, the better for Hamas so long as it doesn’t take the blame. At this point I assume that UN aid agencies are corrupt as hell, and UNRWA is worse than most. ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2024, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/viability-of-a-two-state-israel-palestine-solution-in-the-moderate-term/996923/140 "2024-03-20T03:12:44Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > > [@Thing.Fish](#): > > > > Serious question: what do you think the UNRWA should have been doing differently? > > For starters, making sure that their employees are not Hamas terrorists. You of course have a cite for this allegation that has, you know, evidence rather than unsubstantiated allegations, right? > **[Israel yet to provide evidence to back UNRWA 7 October attack claims – UN](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/mar/01/unrwa-funding-pause-employees-october-7-hamas-attack-claims-no-evidence-un)** > > Allegations against 12 employees led major donors to suspend funding to UN Palestinian agency despite hunger crisis in Gaza [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/viability-of-a-two-state-israel-palestine-solution-in-the-moderate-term/996923.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/viability-of-a-two-state-israel-palestine-solution-in-the-moderate-term/996923.md?page=8)