# Viability of a two state Israel Palestine solution in the moderate term **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Tags:** israel-hamas-war\ **Created:** [January 31, 2024, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/viability-of-a-two-state-israel-palestine-solution-in-the-moderate-term/996923 "2024-01-31T18:06:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![NDP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ndp/32/55_2.png) [@NDP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NDP)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2024, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/viability-of-a-two-state-israel-palestine-solution-in-the-moderate-term/996923/161 "2024-03-24T23:49:59Z")
> [@InfraBlue](#): > > Peace and stability through one state in Palestine, democratic, egalitarian and pluralistic for the the peoples therein is the solution, not a separate bantustan police state for the Palestinians. _A nation of one_ _Of salads and sun_ If you want to know how the rest of the song I paraphrased goes, click [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hvz0TOm0zgI) I apologize if that was insulting and cynical but I think that proposal is hopelessly naive. Granted, the vast majority of Israelis and Palestinians just want to go about their lives peaceably but there are too many assholes on both sides whose solution to the problem is for the other side to go away and don’t mind turning the whole nation into a charnel house as the way to achieve it. There are probably no good solutions here, just ones that are not as bad as the others. Of those, the two-state is probably the best (provided all the Israeli settlers either leave the West Bank or choose to live under Palestinian rule). ---
**Author:** ![InfraBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/infrablue/32/6366_2.png) [@InfraBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/InfraBlue)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2024, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/viability-of-a-two-state-israel-palestine-solution-in-the-moderate-term/996923/162 "2024-03-25T02:41:06Z")
Heh, you’re as entitled to your own opinion, as am I. The problem with “the” two state solution is that it ignores the Palestinians’ rights in Palestine and assumes that they will relinquish these rights. It will merely be a formalization of the situation they are in presently. ---
**Author:** ![InfraBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/infrablue/32/6366_2.png) [@InfraBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/InfraBlue)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2024, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/viability-of-a-two-state-israel-palestine-solution-in-the-moderate-term/996923/163 "2024-03-25T02:47:28Z")
Well that certainly isn’t “the” two state solution being advanced by most others. I don’t know if NDP’s [“the” two state solution](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/viability-of-a-two-state-israel-palestine-solution-in-the-moderate-term/996923/161) is “the” one you’re proposing, as well. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2024, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/viability-of-a-two-state-israel-palestine-solution-in-the-moderate-term/996923/164 "2024-03-25T06:24:34Z")
> [@scudsucker](#): > > It was still in colonial times but the Federation of Rhodesia and Nyasaland (aka Northern and Southern Rhodesia) split into Zambia and Rhodesia with little fuss in 1964. They weren’t fighting a war between the two states, and the two states weren’t basically ethno-states, so not really analogous, I think. “Two State Solution” doesn’t just mean _any_ polity split into two. It means two states split along (usually ethnic) lines - Cyprus, Indian/Pakistan, Israel/Palestine, etc. Or even more than two I guess, in the Balkans. ---
**Author:** ![Chad\_Sudan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chad_sudan/32/4509_2.png) [@Chad\_Sudan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chad_Sudan)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2024, 10:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/viability-of-a-two-state-israel-palestine-solution-in-the-moderate-term/996923/165 "2024-03-25T10:07:09Z")
India/Pakistan is a good example of a two-state resolution that is the least worst option. Does anyone think that South Asia would be better off forming one state, “from the mountains to the sea”? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2024, 10:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/viability-of-a-two-state-israel-palestine-solution-in-the-moderate-term/996923/166 "2024-03-25T10:13:55Z")
All of those examples are more peaceful than before, right? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2024, 10:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/viability-of-a-two-state-israel-palestine-solution-in-the-moderate-term/996923/167 "2024-03-25T10:19:05Z")
India and Pakistan are two nuclear-armed states currently run by religious/nationalists and frequently have border disputes and with a whole contended state in between them. And the Indian nationalists are seriously stepping up their suppression of their own sizable Muslim minority. I’d say the jury is very much still out on that one. > [@Chad\_Sudan](#): > > Does anyone think that South Asia would be better off forming one state, “from the mountains to the sea”? If it were a secular state that embraced all its peoples, it very well could have been. Not now, of course, too much tainted water under that bridge. ---
**Author:** ![Chad\_Sudan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chad_sudan/32/4509_2.png) [@Chad\_Sudan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chad_Sudan)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2024, 10:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/viability-of-a-two-state-israel-palestine-solution-in-the-moderate-term/996923/168 "2024-03-25T10:32:45Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Not now, of course, too much tainted water under that bridge. Exactly. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2024, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/viability-of-a-two-state-israel-palestine-solution-in-the-moderate-term/996923/169 "2024-03-25T15:20:35Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > If it were a secular state that embraced all its peoples So a spherical sacred cow … ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2024, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/viability-of-a-two-state-israel-palestine-solution-in-the-moderate-term/996923/170 "2024-03-25T15:28:34Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > So a spherical sacred cow … Lots of multi-ethnic states haven’t dissolved into massive orgies of ethno-sectarian violence, for some reason. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2024, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/viability-of-a-two-state-israel-palestine-solution-in-the-moderate-term/996923/171 "2024-03-25T15:46:47Z")
And none of them are the region of India and Pakistan, or Israel/Palestine. But yes if reality was very different than how it is and has been then … In another part of the multiverse? ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2024, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/viability-of-a-two-state-israel-palestine-solution-in-the-moderate-term/996923/172 "2024-03-25T16:11:08Z")
For the sake of discussion - and I realize this is a huge tangent from the OP (but from my perspective the actual OP is long as answered as it is can be: magic eight ball says future is murky at best) - I’m not coming up with _many_ members of that list that are not one cultural identity massively overwhelming any and all others. Can help populate the list for me? Because I would then be curious to try to identify any possible secret sauce to their successes. Or less facetiously, see if there are any specific common sorts of antecedents to that emerging successfully. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2024, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/viability-of-a-two-state-israel-palestine-solution-in-the-moderate-term/996923/173 "2024-03-25T16:27:39Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > I’m not coming up with _many_ members of that list that are not one cultural identity massively overwhelming any and all others. You can start with South Africa and work from there. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2024, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/viability-of-a-two-state-israel-palestine-solution-in-the-moderate-term/996923/174 "2024-03-25T18:06:50Z")
Honestly I don’t know enough about current circumstances in South Africa to decide for myself if it is a case of multi ethnic representation and not one of the cultures having overwhelming control. You are the closest I know to an expert on that. But a list of one is a short list. My own effort comes up with a few others but not enough to look for patterns. And unfortunately the pattern I see is usually an aftermath of suppression with a majority respecting some plurality once they are comfortable it is not a threat to them anymore. Not a great model. If you don’t care to name the a list of the “lots” of them fine. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2024, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/viability-of-a-two-state-israel-palestine-solution-in-the-moderate-term/996923/175 "2024-03-25T21:34:32Z")
Belgium could be worse. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2024, 8:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/viability-of-a-two-state-israel-palestine-solution-in-the-moderate-term/996923/176 "2024-03-26T08:33:39Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > one of the cultures having overwhelming control Well, if it were, which culture would that be? > [@DSeid](#): > > a list of one is a short list Well, the UK hasn’t, Canada hasn’t, Italy hasn’t, Finland hasn’t… I mean, do you just want me to go on listing multi-ethnic states, or will you just admit that states where multiple ethnicities co-exist without widespread ethnic bloodshed are pretty common? ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2024, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/viability-of-a-two-state-israel-palestine-solution-in-the-moderate-term/996923/177 "2024-03-26T16:09:13Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Glory to Hamas and Netanyahu and Smotrich and their allies like you who demand one state! Woe and boo to those trying to achieve long term peace and stability! Maximal demands or nothing! Peace and stability be damned! Lots of people sincerely desire a liberal, nonsectarian, democratic one-state solution. You can call them unrealistic or naive (I certainly do), but there’s no need to equate them with genocidal fanatics, or to insinuate that they are in fact genocidal fanatics who are lying about their true beliefs. I’m still on Team Two States, but it’s certainly not like we’ve been making such great progress with that model that we’re justified in ridiculing proponents of other possible scenarios for peaceful co-existence. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2024, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/viability-of-a-two-state-israel-palestine-solution-in-the-moderate-term/996923/178 "2024-03-26T16:45:21Z")
> [@Thing.Fish](#): > > I’m still on Team Two States, but it’s certainly not like we’ve been making such great progress with that model that we’re justified in ridiculing proponents of other possible scenarios for peaceful co-existence. Well said. I think a better question than the thread title is “viability of _any_ solution in Israel and Palestine”. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2024, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/viability-of-a-two-state-israel-palestine-solution-in-the-moderate-term/996923/179 "2024-03-26T17:10:11Z")
If someone presents some sort of rational path to one state, then I promise not to gently mock them. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2024, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/viability-of-a-two-state-israel-palestine-solution-in-the-moderate-term/996923/180 "2024-03-26T19:31:38Z")
> [@Thing.Fish](#): > > Lots of people sincerely desire a liberal, nonsectarian, democratic one-state solution. […] > > I’m still on Team Two States, but it’s certainly not like we’ve been making such great progress with that model that we’re justified in ridiculing proponents of other possible scenarios for peaceful co-existence. ISTM that there’s also a potential strategic-negotiation aspect to support for a nonsectarian democratic single state. Namely, since that’s the optimal ideal in terms of individual freedoms for all the inhabitants, let’s start the bidding there, and then maybe haggle our way to a more practically feasible dual-state compromise. As you note, leading off with the two-state scenario as the most realistic goal doesn’t seem to have gotten us anywhere so far. So maybe moving the Overton window of thinkable solutions might improve the chances of getting some kind of solution. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/viability-of-a-two-state-israel-palestine-solution-in-the-moderate-term/996923.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/viability-of-a-two-state-israel-palestine-solution-in-the-moderate-term/996923.md?page=10)