# Vice Presidential Debate Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 7, 2012, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vice-presidential-debate-thread/636999 "2012-10-07T16:46:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 20
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vice-presidential-debate-thread/636999/381 "2012-10-12T03:53:53Z")
> [@Curiosity\_Kills\_Her](#): > > He reminds me a little of [this guy.](http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-shgj0m6fQ6A/UAP744vMufI/AAAAAAAAEKg/gjU1sqjvqwo/s1600/Saber-toothed+Rat.jpg) No, [this guy](http://curiousanimals.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/cat-shrek.jpg). ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vice-presidential-debate-thread/636999/382 "2012-10-12T03:54:34Z")
> [@RyJae](#): > > Biden pissed me off tonight, his laughing was disrespectful to such a huge degree. Respect, they both deserve it, treating one like a child is so unprofessional. Half the nation likes one or the other for various reasons, you will never unite when acting like a dick. > > Not enough to make me cast a vote for Romney, my dislike of his policies is far deeper than the childish behavior of Biden tonight. Why is laughing disrespectful and baldfaced lying not? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vice-presidential-debate-thread/636999/383 "2012-10-12T03:54:49Z")
Intrade isn’t impressed either way. Obama remains between 60-63%. Contrast that to the 1st debate, where Obama’s numbers plummeted the longer the debate went on. ---
**Author:** ![Rubixcube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Rubixcube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubixcube)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vice-presidential-debate-thread/636999/384 "2012-10-12T03:57:37Z")
I enjoyed that Biden called Ryan on the bullshit, I didn’t care for his flippant attitude if only because this wasn’t really the proper venue for it. I thought that Ryan mostly stuck to the standard talking points, but that he managed to sufficiently trip over his own rope. But I really don’t think any of that is going to make a difference. It’s a VP debate, it honestly doesn’t matter. The media will be all over it for a couple of days, but by the time Tuesday rolls around it’ll be forgotten in favor of the real debate starring the real candidates. Kind of a shame honestly, I really enjoyed the debate. At the very least it had more substance than the first debate. ---
**Author:** ![sweepkick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/87869e/32.png) [@sweepkick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sweepkick)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vice-presidential-debate-thread/636999/385 "2012-10-12T03:58:02Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > BREAKING: CNN-ORC post-debate poll of Registered Voters: 48% said Ryan won. 44% said Biden won. Sampling error: ±5%. #CNNDebate > > [http://politicslive.cnn.com/Event/vice\_presidential\_debate](http://politicslive.cnn.com/Event/vice_presidential_debate) Huh. When I voted it was like 63/37 to Biden. Then I went to the store and came back and now they’re saying Ryan won. Whatever. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vice-presidential-debate-thread/636999/386 "2012-10-12T03:59:37Z")
The online poll isn’t the same as their scientific poll. ---
**Author:** ![RyJae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@RyJae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RyJae)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vice-presidential-debate-thread/636999/387 "2012-10-12T04:00:15Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Why is laughing disrespectful and baldfaced lying not? If Ryan opened his mouth Biden laughed that was a jackass move. Rebuttal like a grown man, call him on his lie do not act like a dick. I am not prudish by any means, but I know enough about professional behavior… and Biden failed. ---
**Author:** ![Tarwater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9de0a6/32.png) [@Tarwater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tarwater)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vice-presidential-debate-thread/636999/388 "2012-10-12T04:00:15Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Intrade isn’t impressed either way. Obama remains between 60-63%. > > Contrast that to the 1st debate, where Obama’s numbers plummeted the longer the debate went on. Who cares what Intrade thinks? EDIT: I just asked my dog who won the debate. He barked twice, and it kind of sounded like Paul, Paul! My dog thinks Ryan won the debate, I’m assuming. What does this mean for the viability of the Obama campaign? Only time will tell. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vice-presidential-debate-thread/636999/389 "2012-10-12T04:01:15Z")
> [@sweepkick](#): > > Huh. When I voted it was like 63/37 to Biden. Then I went to the store and came back and now they’re saying Ryan won. > > Whatever. It’s a real poll. What you voted in was an “online poll”. Those exist just to drive traffic and have no value whatsoever. ---
**Author:** ![Jules\_Andre](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jules_andre/32/9334_2.png) [@Jules\_Andre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jules_Andre)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vice-presidential-debate-thread/636999/390 "2012-10-12T04:01:50Z")
Obama supporter through and through, but I thought Biden came off as a whiny, petulant child. I can absolutely understand the thinking that, if you assume both sides are lying (since all politicians do, right?), Ryan came off a whole lot better. And I didn’t see any decisive Biden victory (this thread is amazing in its slant), which gives Ryan the benefit of the tie, if anything. Though honestly, if I had to answer as much blatant BS as Biden was, I would have come off a whole lot worse than he did. So a hearty consolation clap to him. ---
**Author:** ![sweepkick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/87869e/32.png) [@sweepkick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sweepkick)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vice-presidential-debate-thread/636999/391 "2012-10-12T04:02:26Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > It’s a real poll. What you voted in was an “online poll”. Those exist just to drive traffic and have no value whatsoever. Ah, gotcha. ---
**Author:** ![MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MPB_in_Salt_Lake)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vice-presidential-debate-thread/636999/392 "2012-10-12T04:05:55Z")
> [@Sateryn76](#): > > Biden’s background laughing and grinning turned a lot of people off. People who already support him thought it was great, but remember there are still undecideds out there who may have thought it was disgraceful. I _like_ Joe Biden (in fact much more so than B. Obama) and I thought that his grinning mug made him look like a real Class “A” Asshole tonight, even though I generally agreed with the basic points that he was trying to make… ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vice-presidential-debate-thread/636999/393 "2012-10-12T04:06:33Z")
> [@Tarwater](#): > > Who cares what Intrade thinks? I think it’s an interesting insight into the public perception of the state of the race. I hardly think it’s as useless as some folks here do. I think it’s one piece of information out of many. If I were watching Intrade during last week’s debates and saw Obama’s numbers crashing, I would assume there was some serious carnage taking place, as there apparently was. ---
**Author:** ![Sudden\_Kestrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecd19e/32.png) [@Sudden\_Kestrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sudden_Kestrel)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vice-presidential-debate-thread/636999/394 "2012-10-12T04:17:04Z")
> [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](#): > > Who is the cartoon character that Ryan looks like? I can’t figure it out. My husband and I puzzled this one out during slow moments in the debate, and it’s [Alfred E. Neuman](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_E._Neuman), fittingly the mascot for _Mad_ magazine. I thought Biden did a bang-up job in the debate. I knew the right would immediately start whining about his grinning and outright laughter, but I found that Biden laughed at the same things that made me laugh so it just seemed natural to me. A more subtle, less outspoken person than Biden might just have let a little smile sneak out, but Joe Biden has never represented himself as subtle or diplomatic. His behavior was exactly in line with his normal personality. Republicans _like_ Joe’s relative lack of filtering when it leads to “gaffes” they can make fun of; they don’t like it so much when it’s their boy drawing the mockery. Obviously it is time for Jim Lehrer to step out of the moderating business, especially after watching this debate and seeing how it should be done. Granted, the format made this one a bit easier to moderate, but I liked that she was willing to question both candidates when she didn’t get a clear answer to the question or felt follow-up was needed. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vice-presidential-debate-thread/636999/395 "2012-10-12T04:20:00Z")
Gotta admit I’m surprised. I thought Biden seemed authoritative and knowledgeable and pretty well took it to Ryan. I was disappointed in Ryan and thought the debate would be pretty much the opposite of what it was. But most of the network coverage I’ve been seeing and the polls they’re looking at are showing it much closer than I thought. Maybe old Joe overplayed his hand. He did seem to back off toward the end and adopt a more conciliatory though still commanding tone, and I wondered at the time whether he’d gotten a signal of some sort to back off. I remember when Mondale nailed Ronald Reagan when Reagan tried his “There you go again” line that worked so well against Carter and Mondale was waiting with a withering rebuttal. Reagan sort of stammered around looking grandfatherly and picked on and it backfired on Mondale pretty badly. Maybe the same kind of thing here. Perhaps Romney did the better job of walking the aggressive line without coming off a bully (to most) whereas Biden took it too far. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vice-presidential-debate-thread/636999/396 "2012-10-12T04:26:37Z")
> [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](#): > > Who is the cartoon character that Ryan looks like? I can’t figure it out. The cartoonish [Screech Powers](http://www.jewornotjew.com/img/people/s/screech_powers.jpg)? ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vice-presidential-debate-thread/636999/397 "2012-10-12T04:28:16Z")
Both of them did creditable jobs at pitching to their bases. The undecided voter moment by moment rating shown on CNN reversed the trend of the presidential debate, with women generally approving Ryan over Biden and men approving Biden over Ryan. I can’t figure that out at all. Biden’s performance mostly showed why Obama couldn’t react the same way in the first debate. If he had interrupted and laughed and called malarky, the dip in the poll numbers would have looked like an abyss. He might in the next debate be a bit more active in contradicting Romney but I doubt you’ll see more than that. A tie favors the incumbent in normal times. This one wasn’t normal but the outcome is the same. Biden had to obviously and manifestly not lose in the way Obama was seen to. Not losing was all-important. A clear win would be have helpful for their side, but a tie still derails the narrative of Obama being a loser. It probably does a bit more, since the media now have a new narrative to paw over: is Ryan - and by extension Romney and the Republicans - lying? The right will scream bias, no doubt, but given a tie and given that they have to obsess over something for the next week, it’s the logical follow-up that fits their format of having people from each side sit there and mindlessly contradict the other. This gives a slight edge to Obama in the post-debate period. Intrade and 538, including the now-cast, all put Obama’s chances back in the 60’s. Obama has spent about five months out of the year near 60% on Intrade. That’s probably about where it should be. Everything else is like trying to measure the momentum of a team on a hot run making the playoffs. Once the playoffs start, everybody is back to 0-0, and the better team for the opponent will win, not the hottest team. ---
**Author:** ![aag3981](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/53a042/32.png) [@aag3981](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aag3981)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vice-presidential-debate-thread/636999/398 "2012-10-12T04:30:36Z")
> [@Sateryn76](#): > > I give Biden the win - I disagree with most everything he believes, but he projected passion and leadership, which is what I believe is sorely lacking in American government. Obama and Ryan appear to make all of their moves based on the latest polling and it shows. > > However, Martha Radditz was quite clearly allowing Biden to interrupt to a ridiculous extent (an old debate tacit to take the force out of an opponent’s reply) and made a habit of cutting Ryan off on rebuttal, which she did not do with Biden. She also challenged Ryan on his answers, without challenging Biden really at all. I won’t go so far as to say she was biased, but it was unbalanced moderation, and it will give the Ryan supports a leg to stand on. > > Is anyone who bitched about Romney interrupting going to go on record condemning the same in Biden tonight? Me! What ever happened to respecting the moderator and the rules of the debate. ---
**Author:** ![Sateryn76](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e4f/32.png) [@Sateryn76](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sateryn76)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vice-presidential-debate-thread/636999/399 "2012-10-12T04:31:54Z")
I think I’ve put my finger on why Biden’s smirking and laughing was so off-putting to me. America is in trouble right now. And one of the biggest reasons why is because politicians on both sides of the aisle refuse to negotiate, consider the other side, and form any kind of compromise on any issue. Clinton, Reagan, and Romney in Massachusetts learned how to work with opposing sides to get shit done. Everyone needs to remember that, however horrible you think the other side is, both parties are at around 50% of the country. So compromise is necessary. Biden’s behavior was like someone’s Facebook “debate” where they’re just calling the other guy an asshole. No substance, no thoughtful consideration, just smirking and shaking his head. That’s not going to fly in a country where 50% of the people disagree with you. And it makes it very, very clear that you have no interest in working with them. So why wouldnt their response be “fuck you”? ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vice-presidential-debate-thread/636999/400 "2012-10-12T04:31:59Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Both of them did creditable jobs at pitching to their bases. The undecided voter moment by moment rating shown on CNN reversed the trend of the presidential debate, with women generally approving Ryan over Biden and men approving Biden over Ryan. I can’t figure that out at all. IMO, women tend not to like it when men are overbearing. Men can perceive that as assertiveness or strength and therefore as a positive. Plus Ryan is young, fit, and, presumably, attractive. 😉 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vice-presidential-debate-thread/636999.md?page=19) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vice-presidential-debate-thread/636999.md?page=21)