# Vice Presidential Debate Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 7, 2012, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vice-presidential-debate-thread/636999 "2012-10-07T16:46:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 21
**Author:** ![Dignan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f07891/32.png) [@Dignan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dignan)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vice-presidential-debate-thread/636999/401 "2012-10-12T04:36:59Z")
> [@Sateryn76](#): > > No substance, no thoughtful consideration, just smirking and shaking his head. That’s not going to fly in a country where 50% of the people disagree with you. And it makes it very, very clear that you have no interest in working with them. So why wouldnt their response be “fuck you”? Yeah, and there’s no substance to the undecideds. If they’re going to vote for the other guy who’s a liar instead of the guy who laughed at the lies, then you’re absolutely right that this country is in trouble. ---
**Author:** ![SirRay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@SirRay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SirRay)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vice-presidential-debate-thread/636999/402 "2012-10-12T04:40:03Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > It’s a real poll. What you voted in was an “online poll”. Those exist just to drive traffic and have no value whatsoever. The CNN-ORC poll may not [be quite as real as you may think](http://www.cnn.com/POLITICS/pollingcenter/polls/3262): > [@](#): > > SPECIAL NOTE OF CAUTION #2: The sample of debate-watchers in this poll were 31% Democratic and 33% Republican. That indicates that the sample of debate watchers is about eight points more Republican than an average CNN poll of all Americans, so the respondents were more Republican than the general public. 8% more Republican than Average - Unskewed polls, indeed ---
**Author:** ![Nazarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c57346/32.png) [@Nazarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nazarene)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vice-presidential-debate-thread/636999/403 "2012-10-12T04:41:03Z")
Ryan tried to change a bill to deny medical care to rape victims unless it was “forcible rape.” That’s the kind of shit women care about. ---
**Author:** ![Catballou](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Catballou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Catballou)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vice-presidential-debate-thread/636999/404 "2012-10-12T04:45:22Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > CNN’s focus group of undecided voters is a three-way tie between “Biden won”, “Ryan won”, and “Tie”. > > Who _are_ these people? CNN mostly polled southern white college educated voters over age 49 following the Presidential Debate. Maybe the same methods for this poll. ---
**Author:** ![Catballou](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Catballou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Catballou)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vice-presidential-debate-thread/636999/405 "2012-10-12T04:52:53Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Just because you enjoyed Biden’s disrespectfulness doesn’t mean everyone else did. Geez, even Biden has to know who is intended audience was today. It wasn’t swing voters. It appears swing voters appreciated Biden’s Performance, per CBS poll. Having watched our POTUS insulted during his state of the Union address by. Wilson and on down the GOP line, the sudden sensitivity among GOP re: Biden’s style is peculiar. ---
**Author:** ![Andiethewestie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba9def/32.png) [@Andiethewestie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andiethewestie)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vice-presidential-debate-thread/636999/406 "2012-10-12T04:59:04Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > I’m no Obama supporter, but I think Biden did great. The highlights for me were his “But I always say what I mean” parry on the issue of gaffes, and the “Oh, now you’re Jack Kennedy” line. Oh yeah Biden did amazing, he kicked ass and took names. Moreover this is the Give em Hell Harry performance the Dems wanted to be re-energized. “I like a man who grins when he fights.” - Winston Churchill ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vice-presidential-debate-thread/636999/407 "2012-10-12T05:06:58Z")
Nate Silver gives Biden a [hold](http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/10/12/in-polls-biden-gets-a-hold/#more-35905). Probably the best you could expect from a VP debate. ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vice-presidential-debate-thread/636999/408 "2012-10-12T05:51:08Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Plus Ryan is young, fit, and, presumably, attractive. 😉 By the “Politics is show business for ugly people” standard? Yes. Ryan has this odd “smooshed-up-mouth” thing every so often, looking like a slightly less extreme version of [this guy](http://www.ripleysnewyork.com/UserFiles/Image/Old_Man.jpg). ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vice-presidential-debate-thread/636999/409 "2012-10-12T06:23:14Z")
Wow! Thanks. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vice-presidential-debate-thread/636999/410 "2012-10-12T06:26:32Z")
> [@Sateryn76](#): > > I think I’ve put my finger on why Biden’s smirking and laughing was so off-putting to me. > > America is in trouble right now. And one of the biggest reasons why is because politicians on both sides of the aisle refuse to negotiate, consider the other side, and form any kind of compromise on any issue. Clinton, Reagan, and Romney in Massachusetts learned how to work with opposing sides to get shit done. Everyone needs to remember that, however horrible you think the other side is, both parties are at around 50% of the country. So compromise is necessary. > > Biden’s behavior was like someone’s Facebook “debate” where they’re just calling the other guy an asshole. No substance, no thoughtful consideration, just smirking and shaking his head. That’s not going to fly in a country where 50% of the people disagree with you. And it makes it very, very clear that you have no interest in working with them. So why wouldnt their response be “fuck you”? Nonsense. Biden was showing that he didn’t respect the other guy’s argument, and then fired back with detail. Ryan was doing a similar job, showing a beatific smile, shaking his head when Biden was talking (“gosh, shucks what is that old man going _on_ about?”), then hammering back. I didn’t see much difference in posture between them, just substance. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vice-presidential-debate-thread/636999/411 "2012-10-12T06:33:07Z")
Shaking your head and smirking doesn’t interrupt the other guy. Laughing out loud and interjecting snide remarks does. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vice-presidential-debate-thread/636999/412 "2012-10-12T06:39:38Z")
Hey, you probably know! What are these “six studies” that Ryan is so proud of? You know, the non-partisan, totally non-biased academic studies. He wasn’t specific about that, but I figured you would know. ---
**Author:** ![A\_nice\_guy\_with\_an\_opinion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/76d3ee/32.png) [@A\_nice\_guy\_with\_an\_opinion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_nice_guy_with_an_opinion)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vice-presidential-debate-thread/636999/413 "2012-10-12T06:41:36Z")
> [@Sateryn76](#): > > I think I’ve put my finger on why Biden’s smirking and laughing was so off-putting to me. > > America is in trouble right now. And one of the biggest reasons why is because politicians on both sides of the aisle refuse to negotiate, consider the other side, and form any kind of compromise on any issue. Clinton, Reagan, and Romney in Massachusetts learned how to work with opposing sides to get shit done. Everyone needs to remember that, however horrible you think the other side is, both parties are at around 50% of the country. So compromise is necessary. > > Biden’s behavior was like someone’s Facebook “debate” where they’re just calling the other guy an asshole. No substance, no thoughtful consideration, just smirking and shaking his head. That’s not going to fly in a country where 50% of the people disagree with you. And it makes it very, very clear that you have no interest in working with them. So why wouldnt their response be “fuck you”? I think that is what made this a Ryan win. Without Biden acting like Jack Nicholson as the Joker, this might have been a draw. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vice-presidential-debate-thread/636999/414 "2012-10-12T06:44:35Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Hey, you probably know! What are these “six studies” that Ryan is so proud of? You know, the non-partisan, totally non-biased academic studies. He wasn’t specific about that, but I figured you would know. I don’t know about six, but there’s only one that said Romney’s tax plan was impossible. The truth is somewhere in between. Romney can’t reduce taxes by 20% without making the middle class pay more or blow up the deficit. But he can reduce taxes substantially simply by limiting the deductions people can take, say max out at $20,000. ---
**Author:** ![Polerius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d78d45/32.png) [@Polerius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polerius)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vice-presidential-debate-thread/636999/415 "2012-10-12T07:00:33Z")
Any estimates/polls as to who the pubic thinks won the debate? I didn’t watch it, but from reading about it, it looks like it was not a blowout win for either candidate. Is this correct? ---
**Author:** ![Face\_Intentionally\_Left\_Blank](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/face_intentionally_left_blank/32/288_2.png) [@Face\_Intentionally\_Left\_Blank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Face_Intentionally_Left_Blank)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 7:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vice-presidential-debate-thread/636999/416 "2012-10-12T07:07:55Z")
I have a question: If Romney won by throwing lies around confidently, interrupting, talking over the moderator and constantly having the last word EVERY SINGLE TIME, why is it that when Biden confidently argues the lies & BS Ryan was throwing around and takes control of the debate, he loses? What are the winning conditions for a democratic candidate in these debates? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vice-presidential-debate-thread/636999/417 "2012-10-12T07:09:50Z")
Romney didn’t interrupt, nor did he lie more than an average candidate at one of these things. And he definitely didn’t laugh out loud at things Obama said. As for the last word, he only got that because Obama kept conceding it to him. And Obama STILL talked more than Romney. ---
**Author:** ![Face\_Intentionally\_Left\_Blank](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/face_intentionally_left_blank/32/288_2.png) [@Face\_Intentionally\_Left\_Blank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Face_Intentionally_Left_Blank)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vice-presidential-debate-thread/636999/418 "2012-10-12T07:12:44Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Romney didn’t interrupt, nor did he lie more than an average candidate at one of these things. > > And he definitely didn’t laugh out loud at things Obama said. > > As for the last word, he only got that because Obama kept conceding it to him. And Obama STILL talked more than Romney. I’m gonna go ahead and laugh, Biden-style, at the part of your quote I underlined. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vice-presidential-debate-thread/636999/419 "2012-10-12T07:15:28Z")
Whatever helps you sleep at night knowing your guy got bested. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vice-presidential-debate-thread/636999/420 "2012-10-12T07:20:43Z")
Hmm, if only there were a forum where you could rebut lies. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vice-presidential-debate-thread/636999.md?page=20) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vice-presidential-debate-thread/636999.md?page=22)