# Vice Presidential Debate Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 7, 2012, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vice-presidential-debate-thread/636999 "2012-10-07T16:46:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 23
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vice-presidential-debate-thread/636999/441 "2012-10-12T12:51:16Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > …If your opponent is lying, you counter with the facts. If Obama didn’t do that, it’s his own fault \ Word. I gotta say the same thing that I said for the Obama/Romney debate, though. No fair whining about smirks or eye rolls or interruptions. Biden laughed, sure. He found the ideas laughable. We can’t on the one hand accept that these debates have room for posturing and dominating the stage, and then on the other hand, demand that everyone stick to the protocol and etiquette of Miss. Manners. If Romney can have that face-punchy smirk on his face, then Biden can laugh like a loon. ---
**Author:** ![dataguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/eada6e/32.png) [@dataguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dataguy)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vice-presidential-debate-thread/636999/442 "2012-10-12T12:55:16Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Biden’s performance was calculated to excite liberals. It did that. but understand that the way liberals saw that debate is not the same way everyone else did. Yeah, people can see things differently. Like the boxing referee at the London Olympics who, somehow, didn’t see a guy get knocked to the canvas six times, so he awarded the victory to the other guy. Honest difference of opinion, I’m sure. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vice-presidential-debate-thread/636999/443 "2012-10-12T13:03:03Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > Oh, for a second there I thought you were assuming Biden was some beacon of truth during the debates. Let’s see what [FactCheck.org](http://www.philly.com/philly/news/politics/presidential/FactCheck_Veep_debate_violations.html?viewAll=y) says about Biden’s missteps: > [@](#): > > Biden exaggerated when he said House Republicans cut funding for embassy security by $300 million. The amount approved for fiscal year 2012 was $264 million less than requested, and covers construction and maintenance, not just security. The amount of money that is the difference is a rounding issue as far as I am concerned, and it’s pretty minor. It’s a little more substantive that some of the cuts were not only security but that doesn’t change the substance of Biden’s point: It is hypocritical of Ryan to criticize embassy security when it was so low on his priority list that he slashed the budget for it. Just because Ryan was also cutting other things pertaining to the embassy doesn’t change that fact. > [@](#): > > Biden seemed to question Ryan’s assertion that administration officials called Syrian President Bashar Assad “a reformer” even when he was killing his own civilian countrymen. Ryan was right. Early in the bloody Syrian uprising Hillary Clinton called Assad a “different leader” who many in Congress believe is “a reformer.” Many people though that Assad might have been a positive step, including Israel. They were all proven wrong, of course, but that is with the benefit of hindsight. I like how [FactCheck.org](http://FactCheck.org) says “Biden seemed to question” so I looked it up. According to the [transcript](http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/11/us/politics/full-transcript-of-the-vice-presidential-debate.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0), this is the full substance of what Biden said: > [@](#): > > REP. RYAN: Well, we agree with the same red line, actually, they do on chemical weapons, but not putting American troops in, other than to secure those chemical weapons. They’re right about that. But what we should have done earlier is work with those freedom fighters, those dissidents in Syria. We should not have called Bashar Assad a reformer, and we should not have – we should not have waited to Russia to give us the green light – > > VICE PRESIDENT BIDEN: We didn’t call Assad – > > MS. RADDATZ: What’s your criteria for – So anything that Biden asserted was cut off by the moderator and was not expounded upon. It is very possible he might have said “We didn’t call Assad a reformer… when we saw what he wound up becoming” or something along those lines. Either way, to say that a point Biden never got to make is a point worth fact checking is ridiculous to me. > [@](#): > > Biden quoted Romney as saying that he would not “move heaven and earth” to get Osama bin Laden. What Romney said was that he’d go after other terrorists as well. So what? [He said that](http://web.archive.org/web/20091130023044/http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2007/04/26/politics/p131443D20.DTL&type=politics) and the fact he said it doesn’t mean that Romney was cool with Al Qaeda. It meant that Romney did not understand how important it was to get the guy behind 9/11 to many Americans. This is not a quote out of context. It shows that Romney at one point didn’t think catching or killing bin Laden was a priority to him. If he doesn’t stand by that, that’s his problem. I will let some Romney supporter deal with the six items that Ryan got wrong according to the website. As for the three supposed Biden lies, one was a matter of how you round the numbers which didn’t change Biden’s point in the slightest, one was against an assertion that Biden didn’t even make and the last was not even a lie at all. But, you know… Both sides are bad, so vote Republican. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vice-presidential-debate-thread/636999/444 "2012-10-12T13:04:28Z")
> [@Nzinga\_Seated](#): > > Word. > > I gotta say the same thing that I said for the Obama/Romney debate, though. No fair whining about smirks or eye rolls or interruptions. Biden laughed, sure. He found the ideas laughable. We can’t on the one hand accept that these debates have room for posturing and dominating the stage, and then on the other hand, demand that everyone stick to the protocol and etiquette of Miss. Manners. > > If Romney can have that face-punchy smirk on his face, then Biden can laugh like a loon. I feel like if you come out of a debate thinking that your candidate was unfairly treated because the other guy interrupted/smirked/laughed/etc too much, your guy probably did not do a very good job in the debate. It’s sort of a sour grapes “My guy would be doing so much better if the other dude would just shut up and let him finish!” thing. Well, if he had the charisma or the stage presence or the debate skills or whatever quality he’s lacking, he’d be the one talking over the other guy and scoring major points. That’s how these things go. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vice-presidential-debate-thread/636999/445 "2012-10-12T13:16:04Z")
> [@Nzinga\_Seated](#): > > Word. > > I gotta say the same thing that I said for the Obama/Romney debate, though. No fair whining about smirks or eye rolls or interruptions. Biden laughed, sure. He found the ideas laughable. We can’t on the one hand accept that these debates have room for posturing and dominating the stage, and then on the other hand, demand that everyone stick to the protocol and etiquette of Miss. Manners. > > If Romney can have that face-punchy smirk on his face, then Biden can laugh like a loon. Exactly. I’m a little disappointed at so many people defending Biden for his laughing after bitching about Romney’s “Alpha Male monkey posturing” last week. \*Both \*deserve a slap on the wrist and disapproval for rude behavior. Only difference is one you support and one you don’t. I liked what Biden had to say, even while I was cringing at his behavior, while I despised both Romney’s words \*and \*his behavior. But they both behaved badly. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vice-presidential-debate-thread/636999/446 "2012-10-12T13:17:52Z")
> [@Diceman](#): > > This is my problem. Biden was rude. If I was the moderator of that debate, I would have called him out on it and told him to act like a mature adult. Should the moderator have also told Ryan to stop with the lies since dishonesty is unbecoming of a mature adult? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vice-presidential-debate-thread/636999/447 "2012-10-12T13:20:18Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > I’m a little disappointed at so many people defending Biden for his laughing after bitching about Romney’s “Alpha Male monkey posturing” last week. I didn’t give a shit about Romney’s posturing or Biden’s laughing. Still don’t. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vice-presidential-debate-thread/636999/448 "2012-10-12T13:21:41Z")
> [@Jesus of Nazareth](#): > > Ryan tried to change a bill to deny medical care to rape victims unless it was “forcible rape.” That’s the kind of shit women care about. How could the United States Congress possibly pass a law to deny medical care to anyone, for anything? Whatever you’re thinking of couldn’t possibly have been a “bill to deny medical care to rape victims.” Deny federal funding of abortions, maybe? ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vice-presidential-debate-thread/636999/449 "2012-10-12T13:36:22Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > How could the United States Congress possibly pass a law to deny medical care to anyone, for anything? > > Whatever you’re thinking of couldn’t possibly have been a “bill to deny medical care to rape victims.” Deny federal funding of abortions, maybe? Federal funding of abortions is already illegal, so no, I don’t think he meant that and I don’t think you think he did. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vice-presidential-debate-thread/636999/450 "2012-10-12T13:40:08Z")
Do you not pay attention to what your boy did, **Bricker**? > [@](#): > > The Todd Akin episode invited a closer look at Ryan’s record on abortion and social issues. While Ryan has flatly rejected Akin’s reference to “legitimate rape,” Ryan’s name and his vote are tied to instances in which the term “forcible rape” appeared in legislation. The bills sought to place limits on access to abortion or health insurance coverage for an abortion. > > [NBC News](http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/08/22/13416844-ryan-backed-more-than-one-forcible-rape-abortion-bill?lite) As I am sure you know, the [Hyde Amendment](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyde_Amendment) already bans federal funds to pay for an abortion. This bill was an attempt to redefine rape from what is already in that piece of legislation. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vice-presidential-debate-thread/636999/451 "2012-10-12T13:48:31Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > BREAKING: CNN-ORC post-debate poll of Registered Voters: 48% said Ryan won. 44% said Biden won. Sampling error: ±5%. #CNNDebate > > [http://politicslive.cnn.com/Event/vice\_presidential\_debate](http://politicslive.cnn.com/Event/vice_presidential_debate) Not “Breaking” – “Broken”: > [@](#): > > SPECIAL NOTE OF CAUTION #2: The sample of debate-watchers in this poll were 31% Democratic and 33% Republican. **That indicates that the sample of debate watchers is about eight points more Republican than an average CNN poll of all Americans, so the respondents were more Republican than the general public.** Nice try. ---
**Author:** ![ladyfoxfyre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@ladyfoxfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfoxfyre)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vice-presidential-debate-thread/636999/452 "2012-10-12T13:51:40Z")
In some circles, not being able to pay for it is the same as not being able to get it. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vice-presidential-debate-thread/636999/453 "2012-10-12T13:51:45Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > Not “Breaking” – “Broken”: > Nice try. Why do you hate Orcish-Americans? ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vice-presidential-debate-thread/636999/454 "2012-10-12T13:56:16Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I disagree. Biden laughed at Ryan because his ideas are laughable. The Romney-Ryan ticket deserves scorn and ridicule because it is based on utter contempt for the middle class. Then present the facts and let the voters decide. The constant interruptions are probably why Biden did not wipe the floor in the polls. Like it or not, that’s what matters. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vice-presidential-debate-thread/636999/455 "2012-10-12T13:57:41Z")
Can we please, please have at least one presidential debate in this exact same format? ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vice-presidential-debate-thread/636999/456 "2012-10-12T14:11:09Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Then present the facts and let the voters decide. > > The constant interruptions are probably why Biden did not wipe the floor in the polls. Like it or not, that’s what matters. If facts counted for shit, then Romney wouldn’t have gotten a bounce after round 1. Voters don’t care about facts- what they want is someone who appears to believe what they say. Sincerity is critical- if you can fake that, you’ve got it made. If you can repeat a bald lie with a straight face and interrupt the other guy when he calls you out on it, you win the debating point. The voters aren’t grading on accuracy, they grade on confidence. Interrupting is part of that confidence. ---
**Author:** ![mkecane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9e8a1a/32.png) [@mkecane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mkecane)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vice-presidential-debate-thread/636999/457 "2012-10-12T14:22:21Z")
I have no problem with Biden’s demeanor. I heard Ryan talk about bipartisanship, and since Biden didn’t mention McConnell’s stated goal for Republicans, then laughter is an appropriate Plan B. ---
**Author:** ![Belowjob2.0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Belowjob2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belowjob2.0)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vice-presidential-debate-thread/636999/458 "2012-10-12T14:36:39Z")
> [@](#): > > Now, either way, this debate was nowhere NEAR as big as the last one. Bden did a lot better than Obama, but not NEARLY enough to make up for Obama’s debacle. The last debate changed a lot of minds. This one? I’d be surprised if it changed anybody’s mind. > > Last edited by astorian; Today at 04:26 AM. Agree. Not going to stop the Romney momentum. The tide is still turning, against Obama. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vice-presidential-debate-thread/636999/459 "2012-10-12T14:49:54Z")
Are there any numbers on ratings compared to the first debate? ---
**Author:** ![Tarwater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9de0a6/32.png) [@Tarwater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tarwater)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vice-presidential-debate-thread/636999/460 "2012-10-12T14:58:33Z")
> [@Belowjob2.0](#): > > Agree. Not going to stop the Romney momentum. The tide is still turning, against Obama. Romney’s momentum has already slowed, and had been slowing since its peak immediately following the presidential debate. To suggest otherwise would be kidding yourself. You can argue that vice presidential debates don’t matter, and you you’d have historical evidence to support that claim. But by all accounts, Biden did exactly what he was supposed to do: energize the Democratic base and make a case for himself with undecided voters. He did both of those. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vice-presidential-debate-thread/636999.md?page=22) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vice-presidential-debate-thread/636999.md?page=24)