# Vice Presidential Debate Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 7, 2012, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vice-presidential-debate-thread/636999 "2012-10-07T16:46:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 24
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vice-presidential-debate-thread/636999/461 "2012-10-12T15:01:02Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > If facts counted for shit, then Romney wouldn’t have gotten a bounce after round 1. Voters don’t care about facts- what they want is someone who appears to believe what they say. Sincerity is critical- if you can fake that, you’ve got it made. If you can repeat a bald lie with a straight face and interrupt the other guy when he calls you out on it, you win the debating point. The voters aren’t grading on accuracy, they grade on confidence. Interrupting is part of that confidence. Sorry, but I believe you’re wrong. Voters do like confidence; history strongly suggests they react very poorly to rudeness. Al Gore’s 2000 sigh-fest was not well received despite his having most of the facts on his side. Of course, interrupting and laughing wasn’t all Biden did; he attacked very effectively at times and seemed both confident and passionate when presenting his position. Ryan seemed reasonably confident as well, though, so that’s why the polls suggest it was a slim win for Biden at most. I think Biden won this one by a point; he beat Ryan on seeming more passionate and charismatic, plus Ryan flagged towards the end and became repetetive. He loses a point for the rudeness. I’m not taking sides, I’m just pointing out it was not a massacre. Biden seems to have won, but not by enough. Obama needs to win Debates 2 and 3. ---
**Author:** ![Andiethewestie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba9def/32.png) [@Andiethewestie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andiethewestie)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vice-presidential-debate-thread/636999/462 "2012-10-12T15:07:08Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I disagree. Biden laughed at Ryan because his ideas are laughable. The Romney-Ryan ticket deserves scorn and ridicule because it is based on utter contempt for the middle class. Biden knows that Ryan has no business being on the national stage, for him to graciously refer to him as “my friend” shows far more civility than Ryan deserves. And how PAINFULLY out of depth the high school debater boy was when he insisted that American Troops should be in the “most dangerous” part of Afghanistan and Joe was incredulous: oh yeah have the Afghans just avoid responsibility. Send THEIR trained people in, not our guys. 2014 can’t come soon enough. ---
**Author:** ![Andiethewestie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba9def/32.png) [@Andiethewestie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andiethewestie)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vice-presidential-debate-thread/636999/463 "2012-10-12T15:08:45Z")
> [@mkecane](#): > > I have no problem with Biden’s demeanor. I heard Ryan talk about bipartisanship, and since Biden didn’t mention McConnell’s stated goal for Republicans, then laughter is an appropriate Plan B. EXACTLY. Nothing to see on the Repubs side. The Goal is to get rid of Obama as soon as he came to office. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vice-presidential-debate-thread/636999/464 "2012-10-12T15:09:59Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Well, if the media buries it… Yet again, a phony argument about liberal media bias. Take any story that _you_ think has national importance, no matter how trivial, and when it’s not front page news on every media outlet in the country, well, there you go, liberal media bias. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vice-presidential-debate-thread/636999/465 "2012-10-12T15:11:57Z")
Biden’s job was to excite the base, not win over independents (though I believe he was successful with both points). VP debates don’t really matter and by the time Romney and Obama take the stage on Tuesday, nobody will be talking about last nights debate. Obama supporters were down in the dumps after the 1st debate, and Biden fired them up again. From what I’m hearing from other Obama supporters, I’d say he was massively successful. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vice-presidential-debate-thread/636999/466 "2012-10-12T15:31:22Z")
Our conservative posters are fitting in nicely with the predictions of the more reliable pundits: when you can’t attack the substance, attack the style. He smiled, he laughed, but he scored major points in many areas. ---
**Author:** ![Nazarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c57346/32.png) [@Nazarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nazarene)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vice-presidential-debate-thread/636999/467 "2012-10-12T15:46:02Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > How could the United States Congress possibly pass a law to deny medical care to anyone, for anything? > > Whatever you’re thinking of couldn’t possibly have been a “bill to deny medical care to rape victims.” Deny federal funding of abortions, maybe? Termination of pregnancies caused by rape is emergency medical care as far as I’m concerned. Here’s the thing, Ryan didn’t say he had a problem with a rape exception for federal funding of abortion, so that’s a different argument. Ryan was fine with a rape exception, he just wanted to change the word “rape” to “forcible rape.” He has refused to explain what the difference is, but clearly, that is not the kind of mentality which is going to ingratiate himself to women, particularly since he teamed up with Todd “legitimate rape” Akin on that change. If Ryan doesn’t want a rape exception, then let him say that. That’s not what he said, though, so it’s not an argument that’s of any relevance to what he was trying to do. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vice-presidential-debate-thread/636999/468 "2012-10-12T15:46:52Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > I’m not taking sides, I’m just pointing out it was not a massacre. Biden seems to have won, but not by enough. Obama needs to win Debates 2 and 3. I don’t think there’s any margin that could have “enough” if we were looking for an election changing debate. No one is going to vote based on this debate but it showed the Democrats (and Democratically sympathetic independents) that Camp Obama has answers and responses for the GOP attacks and plans. Obama failed to project that last time and left people feeling wanting. Now they feel like the material is there and it’s good material, it just remains to be seen if Obama can deliver it on the presidential campaign stage. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vice-presidential-debate-thread/636999/469 "2012-10-12T16:46:21Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I disagree. Biden laughed at Ryan because his ideas are laughable. The Romney-Ryan ticket deserves scorn and ridicule because it is based on utter contempt for the middle class. Biden knows that Ryan has no business being on the national stage, for him to graciously refer to him as “my friend” shows far more civility than Ryan deserves. Laughing is not a rebuttal. The proper way to deal with lies or stupid arguments is to rip them apart rhetorically. I understand that Biden isn’t in Ryan’s league as a debater, so he had to settle for the next best thing. Make SMDB posters with “Lib” in their username excited. Mission accomplished. ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vice-presidential-debate-thread/636999/470 "2012-10-12T16:48:41Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Laughing is not a rebuttal. The proper way to deal with lies or stupid arguments is to rip them apart rhetorically. Or you could just do both. Edit: I don’t have “Lib” in my username. But I do have “Sit,” “Hat,” and “Wha!” if you need anagramming help. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vice-presidential-debate-thread/636999/471 "2012-10-12T16:51:24Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Laughing is not a rebuttal. The proper way to deal with lies or stupid arguments is to rip them apart rhetorically. > > I understand that Biden isn’t in Ryan’s league as a debater, so he had to settle for the next best thing. Make SMDB posters with “Lib” in their username excited. Mission accomplished. Come on. I freely admitted Obama sucked major ass in his first debate. Just admit that your boy didn’t measure up last night. Ryan should always be on time now, because he got his clock cleaned last night. What’s the difference between Paul Ryan and Sarah Palin? Lipstick. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vice-presidential-debate-thread/636999/472 "2012-10-12T16:51:44Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I understand that Biden isn’t in Ryan’s league as a debater Yeah, Biden hasn’t even been around Little League since his sons grew up… ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vice-presidential-debate-thread/636999/473 "2012-10-12T16:54:55Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Come on. I freely admitted Obama sucked major ass in his first debate. Just admit that your boy didn’t measure up last night. Ryan should always be on time now, because he got his clock cleaned last night. What’s the difference between Paul Ryan and Sarah Palin? Lipstick. Also proximity to Russia. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vice-presidential-debate-thread/636999/474 "2012-10-12T16:59:54Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Also proximity to Russia. Well, that and the fact that they’re both. . .oops, this isn’t the Pit. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vice-presidential-debate-thread/636999/475 "2012-10-12T17:01:46Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I understand that Biden isn’t in Ryan’s league as a debater, so he had to settle for the next best thing. Make SMDB posters with “Lib” in their username excited. Mission accomplished. You admitted in this very thread that the debate was either a tie or a Biden win. If Biden “isn’t in Ryan’s league as a debater”, was he roided up last night or something? ---
**Author:** ![Feyrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/fbc32d/32.png) [@Feyrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Feyrat)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vice-presidential-debate-thread/636999/476 "2012-10-12T17:01:52Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Then present the facts and let the voters decide. > > The constant interruptions are probably why Biden did not wipe the floor in the polls. Like it or not, that’s what matters. And yet Romney behaved that way and people were trumpeting his victory from the skies? You can’t have it both ways. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vice-presidential-debate-thread/636999/477 "2012-10-12T17:12:56Z")
Knowing what happened to Battlin’ Joe’s family right after he was elected Senator, my question is that when Paul “Out of His League” Ryan brought up how Romney is empathetic because of the two paralyzed kids, did the people in charge of prepping Ryan for the debate a) Walk out thinking “I can’t believe he went there.” or b) Were immediately fired for thinking that was a good tactic. Biden’s reply was a perfect example of someone who has been through what he’s been though. When you’ve been in the shit, you don’t talk about the shit. If you’ve been through it you know what it’s like without talking about it and if you’ve never been through it you’ll never understand no matter what I say. About that same time Ryan said > [@](#): > > I think the vice president very well knows that sometimes > the words don’t come out of your mouth the right way. which Biden immediately laughs and says > [@](#): > > But I always say what I mean. And so does Romney. Biden should have followed up with a, “Pwned you li’l bitch.” If you want to go after Biden and his misstatements how about, “At least Mitt Romney did not steal his 47% line from Neil Kinnock. He’s an original. How’d ja like dem apples!” Look, I know that Paul Ryan was a better VP choice than Sarah Palin, but seriously guys - can’t you set the bar a little higher? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vice-presidential-debate-thread/636999/478 "2012-10-12T17:13:21Z")
Seems to me the moderator made a pretty shrewd choice. Rather than try to enforce unenforceable rules, she opted to cut some slack and ride herd in a more general way. She displayed a deft touch in that regard, but there was no way she was going to control things to the degree required in a formal debate. And she used lady power. She didn’t try to assert dominance over two testosterone impaired combatants, she simply let it be known that if they didn’t behave, she might be forced to disapprove. Sexist? Maybe. But it worked. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vice-presidential-debate-thread/636999/479 "2012-10-12T17:15:27Z")
> [@MsWhatsit](#): > > Or you could just do both. > > Edit: I don’t have “Lib” in my username. But I do have “Sit,” “Hat,” and “Wha!” if you need anagramming help. And my name is worth 12 million points in Scrabble. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vice-presidential-debate-thread/636999/480 "2012-10-12T17:18:33Z")
Mine doesn’t fit on a Scrabble board. ☹ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vice-presidential-debate-thread/636999.md?page=23) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vice-presidential-debate-thread/636999.md?page=25)