# Vice Presidential Debate Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 7, 2012, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vice-presidential-debate-thread/636999 "2012-10-07T16:46:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 25
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vice-presidential-debate-thread/636999/481 "2012-10-12T17:20:22Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Laughing is not a rebuttal. The proper way to deal with lies or stupid arguments is to rip them apart rhetorically. > > I understand that Biden isn’t in Ryan’s league as a debater, so he had to settle for the next best thing. Make SMDB posters with “Lib” in their username excited. Mission accomplished. I find you bemusing. Sometimes, you make perfect sense, and seem super smart, even when I disagree with you. Then, you say something that throws me way off. Surely you agree with MsWhatsit that one can do both, right? I mean, one can laugh \*and \*undo one’s opponent. If you are able to logically take apart your opponent, then it doesn’t take away from your argument that you laughed at him when you found him funny. You may subtract style points for that, if you like (especially if you did the same when Romney smirked and blustered) but you really cheat if you subtract substance points. ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vice-presidential-debate-thread/636999/482 "2012-10-12T17:34:13Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Reince Priebus is now being interviewed on CNN explaining why Ryan was the clear winner. > > This man is such a slimeball that he makes Ryan look squeaky-clean in comparison. Everyone that isn’t Reince Priebus clearly wins the “not being Reince Priebus” award! > [@Sateryn76](#): > > America is in trouble right now. And one of the biggest reasons why is because politicians on both sides of the aisle refuse to negotiate, consider the other side, and form any kind of compromise on any issue. Can you identify the cases where Democrats refuse to compromise with Republicans and the metric in which their refusal to compromise endangers America? Bonus points if you can point to a defeated bill which had fewer than 10% of Democrats in support of it in Congress. I can think of one issue where Democrats refuse to compromise with the Republicans and that’s on not adopting the Ryan budget or the Norquist pledge. > [@adaher](#): > > Judging by how much Romney gained with women, I’d say women must feel their issues were addressed at the debate quite well. You know, things like the economy, taxes, regulation… Do you think abortion affects women and men equally? > [@Bricker](#): > > How could the United States Congress possibly pass a law to deny medical care to anyone, for anything? COBRA gave permission to hospitals to deny care to pregnant women whom the hospitals thought could not afford to pay for the care. Of course, if COBRA gave permission for the hospital staff to shit in the faces of pregnant women who looked homeless Congress wouldn’t be shitting in the faces of pregnant homeless women. ---
**Author:** ![Andiethewestie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba9def/32.png) [@Andiethewestie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andiethewestie)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vice-presidential-debate-thread/636999/483 "2012-10-12T18:41:15Z")
I find it amusing that Joe Biden’s laughing or chuckling is sooooo upsetting to the Repubs. Talking heads on either side of the room do it to each other all the time. It’s a way to be dismissive of the argument, but still be engaged in the debate. It’s almost as if little Eddie Munster’s followers all became petulant children frustrated when an adult is amused at their rather simplistic, unsympathetic disregard for anyone other than themselves and people like themselves. Joe was passionate and you could feel his passion for the less fortunate. Eddie, not so much. ---
**Author:** ![Troutsqueezer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Troutsqueezer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troutsqueezer)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vice-presidential-debate-thread/636999/484 "2012-10-12T19:06:01Z")
Next time you guys start a thread like this, at least title it accurately so reasonable people with open minds can avoid reading the crap that is posted here. Something like “Lets Trash the Republicans During the Debate By Making Asinine Statements”. Get a life, people. Take a Poly Sci class and maybe next time you can insert some intelligence into the thread. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vice-presidential-debate-thread/636999/485 "2012-10-12T19:07:03Z")
Tell me about this Poly Sci. Is it better than Mono Sci? ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vice-presidential-debate-thread/636999/486 "2012-10-12T19:10:27Z")
> [@Troutsqueezer](#): > > Next time you guys start a thread like this, at least title it accurately so reasonable people with open minds can avoid reading the crap that is posted here. Something like “Lets Trash the Republicans During the Debate By Making Asinine Statements”. Get a life, people. Take a Poly Sci class and maybe next time you can insert some intelligence into the thread. So do you care to debut anything that’s been said, or are you just going to trash the argument of those you disagree with? ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vice-presidential-debate-thread/636999/487 "2012-10-12T19:12:45Z")
> [@Troutsqueezer](#): > > Next time you guys start a thread like this, at least title it accurately so reasonable people with open minds can avoid reading the crap that is posted here. Something like “Lets Trash the Republicans During the Debate By Making Asinine Statements”. Get a life, people. Take a Poly Sci class and maybe next time you can insert some intelligence into the thread. Don’t let us stop you. You can start any time you like. ---
**Author:** ![SmellMyWort](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea5d25/32.png) [@SmellMyWort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmellMyWort)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vice-presidential-debate-thread/636999/488 "2012-10-12T19:14:45Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Come on. I freely admitted Obama sucked major ass in his first debate. Just admit that your boy didn’t measure up last night. Ryan should always be on time now, because he got his clock cleaned last night. What’s the difference between Paul Ryan and Sarah Palin? Lipstick. 1 minute, 49 seconds. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vice-presidential-debate-thread/636999/489 "2012-10-12T19:16:29Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > So do you care to debut anything that’s been said, or are you just going to trash the argument of those you disagree with? I don’t know why I said “debut.” I meant “debunk.” But if you \*would \*like to debut anything-- a song, a poem, a video short-- well, go right ahead. ---
**Author:** ![Belowjob2.0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Belowjob2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belowjob2.0)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vice-presidential-debate-thread/636999/490 "2012-10-12T19:23:58Z")
> [@Troutsqueezer](#): > > Next time you guys start a thread like this, at least title it accurately so reasonable people with open minds can avoid reading the crap that is posted here. Something like “Lets Trash the Republicans During the Debate By Making Asinine Statements”. Get a life, people. Take a Poly Sci class and maybe next time you can insert some intelligence into the thread. Well, trouser Troutsqueezer, please tell us, point by point, which posts you find asinine. We’re going to need evidence, so get ready to put your “Poly Sci” research skills to work. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vice-presidential-debate-thread/636999/491 "2012-10-12T19:27:24Z")
> [@Troutsqueezer](#): > > Next time you guys start a thread like this, at least title it accurately so reasonable people with open minds can avoid reading the crap that is posted here. Hey, whaddaya know, ol’ [Nick](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=15557694&highlight=Machiavelli#post15557694) is back. Do rest assured, we all thank you for _your_ enlightening comments. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Catballou](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Catballou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Catballou)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vice-presidential-debate-thread/636999/492 "2012-10-12T19:31:05Z")
Romney/Ryan team have been insulting us with the “We’ll give you the details After you elect us” and back-peddaling on what facts they have provided for too long. This is something the media should have called them out for months ago. Biden expressed the incredulity we feel at this stage: ‘This isn’t Student Council, Jr. Cough of the details or get out of the big boy race.’ ---
**Author:** ![2ManyTacos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/3da27b/32.png) [@2ManyTacos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2ManyTacos)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vice-presidential-debate-thread/636999/493 "2012-10-12T19:31:43Z")
Guys, this was a clear-cut Biden win, period. Now, it wasn’t a Biden blowout by any means because Ryan was able to come off as being at least mildly competent, but that still doesn’t change the fact that Biden decisively won the debate. Biden had to go out there and reinvigorate the Democratic base after Obama’s lackluster performance against Romney last week. I mean, I’m absolutely not the first person to make that assessment, but it was so obviously and plainly the purpose behind Biden’s performance that I don’t think anybody could seriously question it. And look, he was enormously successful. You know that you’ve rattled some GOP feathers when Republican operatives spend the entire subsequent day parroting around claiming that Ryan somehow won by default because Biden was too _rude._ I’ve actually got a few things to say about that criticism: Grow the fuck up. If Romney gets to spend 90 minutes lying his ass off and condescendingly talking over both Jim Lehrer and the POTUS in Denver last week against the backdrop of his shit-eating Martian grin, then Biden gets to laugh at and talk over Ryan in order to refute the bullshit that he was pushing out. The funny thing is that the same people criticizing Biden today are the same ones who swooned over Romney last week because he had been so “aggressive” and “in control” of the Denver debate. Give me a break. Look, civility is great and all in an ideal situation, but the bottom line is that Republicans are NOT civil politicians. The GOP is filled with disrespectful jackasses who have constantly gone out of their way to demean Obama (ie Joe Wilson shouting “you lie” at the health care address a few years ago, Jan Brewer getting in Obama’s face at an airport runway, anything that comes out of John Sununu’s mouth, etc.), so when Biden happens to get a little snarky with Ryan at the debate it would behoove yourselves to sit back and take it all and stride. You don’t like the way he acted? You only have yourselves to blame. But yeah, great debate and a clear Biden win. He did what he needed to do, and he loved every minute of it. Hopefully Obama takes a cue from Biden and ups his game considerably on Tuesday. Also, I guess I should say that, to the extent that vice presidential debates can actually help the larger campaign, I essentially agree with Nate Silver’s analysis that was referenced earlier. My guess is that the Biden victory here will prop up diminished Democratic enthusiasm and keep Romney from making any further gains out of his first debate bump. From here, though, it’s up to Obama to regain his momentum by beating Romney in rounds two and three. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Lowry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Sam\_Lowry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Lowry)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vice-presidential-debate-thread/636999/494 "2012-10-12T20:18:04Z")
I was out last night and missed the debate, and now I’m disappointed I missed it. It sounds like it was a good one. > [@SaharaTea](#): > > For me the highlight of the night was Biden’s “Oh now you’re Jack Kennedy?!?” zinger. Seriously, you’d think Republicans would have learned a lesson about bringing up that name during a debate. > > I don’t think there’s any question that Biden dominated. And not at all surprising that conservatives are blaming the moderator. Can anyone fill me in on what led to the Jack Kennedy zinger? I’ve seen a lot of people quote the zinger, but not what Ryan said that led to that. > [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Why is laughing disrespectful and baldfaced lying not? I agree. Maybe laughing isn’t the best, but I find lying about positions much less respectful. > [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > It is beyond time that we quit pretending that mendacity deserves respectful consideration. We whine and complain, or bleat cliches, about dishonest politicians, but somehow it remains out of bounds to have them called out, clearly and forcefully on their lying? > > Why is the word “lie” so forbidden? If you say something that you know isn’t true you have lied. It is that simple. I agree. That’s the biggest complaint a lot of people have about politics. It’s also the reason for a lot of voter apathy, because “all politicians lie.” So I’m very happy anytime a politician is called out on a lie. When there are just disagreements or different interpretations of things, then that’s one thing. But when someone is straight up lying I want them to be called out and the record set straight. ---
**Author:** ![Face\_Intentionally\_Left\_Blank](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/face_intentionally_left_blank/32/288_2.png) [@Face\_Intentionally\_Left\_Blank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Face_Intentionally_Left_Blank)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vice-presidential-debate-thread/636999/495 "2012-10-12T20:27:26Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I don’t believe Biden lost, I just think that Ryan responded well enough that it was closer to a draw(maybe a slight Biden victory). > > Biden’s behavior was much more boorish than Romney’s. Romney did not interrupt the President and he did not laugh while he talked. It’s a pretty easy distinction to make. Biden interrupted, Romney did not. I’ll give you the laughing, certainly, though I feel that’s what Ryan’s remarks deserved. Romney DID interrupt, though he pretty much limited it to when the moderator was trying to assert control, or Obama was beginning to speak - not in the middle of things. Romney interrupted and asserted his right to have the last word on every subject, even if he also had the first word. Incredulous laughter was the appropriate response for the ridiculous things Ryan said. I would have preferred Romney and Ryan sticking to previously-established positions, and providing numbers and details when asked. I don’t appreciate candidates treating me like an idiot with the memory of a goldfish. Laughing wouldn’t have been something I’d like to see at the debates, but given the tenor of last week’s debates and how well being boorish went over, it was time to take a new tack. It WAS boorish, and I was genuinely surprised to see it. However, perhaps it is time to treat ridiculous claims and fictions with the derisive laughter they deserve - as long as it is followed up with thorough explanations as to why they are ridiculous. Perhaps things would not have gone so far off the rails in politics if more people were willing to point and laugh, instead of treating fantasy, crazy, and stupid as valid opposing viewpoints. ---
**Author:** ![Face\_Intentionally\_Left\_Blank](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/face_intentionally_left_blank/32/288_2.png) [@Face\_Intentionally\_Left\_Blank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Face_Intentionally_Left_Blank)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vice-presidential-debate-thread/636999/496 "2012-10-12T20:30:08Z")
> [@Troutsqueezer](#): > > Next time you guys start a thread like this, at least title it accurately so reasonable people with open minds can avoid reading the crap that is posted here. Something like “Lets Trash the Republicans During the Debate By Making Asinine Statements”. Get a life, people. Take a Poly Sci class and maybe next time you can insert some intelligence into the thread. Well, thank goodness you’re here to set us straight. Let’s just take a look through this thread and see all the pearls of wisdom you’ve added to the discussion. (a few second pass) Well, that took a whole lot less time than you’d think based upon your post. Seems you didn’t post anything else at all. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vice-presidential-debate-thread/636999/497 "2012-10-12T20:31:44Z")
> [@Sam\_Lowry](#): > > Can anyone fill me in on what led to the Jack Kennedy zinger? I’ve seen a lot of people quote the zinger, but not what Ryan said that led to that. (Paraphrasing) Biden: It’s mathematically impossible to cut taxes by 20% without growing the deficit. Ryan: It’s not impossible. There are lotsa times where tax cuts lead to economic growth. Biden: Oh yeah? When? Ryan: Jack _[sic…they’re old buddies]_ Kennedy did it. Reagan did it… Biden: Oh now you’re Jack Kennedy? Kinda of a cheap zinger, but Ryan teed up the Bentsen-Quayle reference. More interesting, though, is that Ryan dodged the question. He was challenged on the tax cut/deficit connection, and he pivoted to tax cut/job growth. Not the same thing, bud. ---
**Author:** ![Andiethewestie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba9def/32.png) [@Andiethewestie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andiethewestie)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vice-presidential-debate-thread/636999/498 "2012-10-12T20:34:33Z")
> [@Troutsqueezer](#): > > Next time you guys start a thread like this, at least title it accurately so reasonable people with open minds can avoid reading the crap that is posted here. Something like “Lets Trash the Republicans During the Debate By Making Asinine Statements”. Get a life, people. Take a Poly Sci class and maybe next time you can insert some intelligence into the thread. So what was is your problem? The utter nonsense Ryan was spewing about Afghanistan and how out of depth he was on Foreign policy in total, or the Abortion issue that he clearly wasn’t prepared to answer, let alone swallow hard for Williard, or the fact when pressed, that he really does look like Eddie Munster? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vice-presidential-debate-thread/636999/499 "2012-10-12T20:36:59Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > So just off this narrative, it sounds like the Republicans are going to be screaming Moderator Bias. The moderator pressed Ryan a lot on how he intended to make his tax plan revenue neutral. I think this is a fair point to push on a guy who projects himself as a numbers guy. He ended up saying he’d fill in the detail later after negotiating with the Democrats. The problem is that he would have to cut out almost ALL tax expenditures to achieve revenue neutrality, there would be nothing left to negotiate. > [@eleanorigby](#): > > abortion takes a bow. And Ryan has the BALLS to say he is in public office to protect the vulnerable? He’s delusional. > > Aw, he lets us whores off the hook for incest and rape. He doesn’t let you whores off the hook but he sees the political reality of having to let you off the hook… for now. > [@El\_Kabong](#): > > Well, all I can say, Mssrs Biden and Ryan, is if you both believe life begins at conception, IMO you are both wrong. > [@xenophon41](#): > > Good, good move by Joe: “(2 SC Justices) that’s how close Roe v Wade is.” He’s just reminding us what is at stake. > [@LavenderBlue](#): > > Good reminder, Mr. Biden. YOUR son served in Iraq. Romney has five sons. Not a single one has served in Iraq. There are a lot of ways to serve your country. His sons are serving their country by helping their dad get elected President. Its really the best thing that anyone could do for America.:rolleyes: > [@Smapti](#): > > Moderator: “What can you bring to the vice presidency that nobody else can?” > > Ryan: “…Honestly?” I thought he said “honesty” (implying that Biden was lying). I thought, wow, this guy’s got balls. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I’m not close to panic, though… Ohio is still strong for Obama, and with OH, he just needs one more state. [http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2012/president/2012\_elections\_electoral\_college\_map.html](http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2012/president/2012_elections_electoral_college_map.html) Obama has lost about 70 electoral votes since the first debate. > [@LavenderBlue](#): > > Biden won hands down. This was an even bigger rout than his session with Sarah Palin. He was likeable, informed, thoughtful, passionate and presidential. Obama did good when he picked him. Biden kinda took it easy on Palin. Palin was doing a great job of looking incompetent without any help from him. Ryan didn’t look incompetent. Ryan lost the fiscal policy debate mostly because his positions depend on getting everyone to believe his outrageous assumptions about the supply side effects of tax cuts. Ryan lost because his foreign policy positions depend on everyone believing that Republicans would have handled Libya, Afghanistan, Iran and Osama bin Laden better (which is like monday morning quarterbacking the winning team because you think you could have won by 4 touchdowns instead of three). Ryan lost the > [@monstro](#): > > Biden was good. I don’t think he was the victor of each round, but I think he came out as the superior candidate. There wasn’t a knockout, and while both the presidential and vice presidential debates were won on points. Obama lost on a split decision when he was a heavy favorite to win and Biden won on points after he knocked Ryan down a few times (he also wasn’t a heavy favorite to win). > [@SaharaTea](#): > > For me the highlight of the night was Biden’s “Oh now you’re Jack Kennedy?!?” zinger. Seriously, you’d think Republicans would have learned a lesson about bringing up that name during a debate. > > I don’t think there’s any question that Biden dominated. And not at all surprising that conservatives are blaming the moderator. He made reference to Jack Kennedy and Ronald Reagan. Anyone who is into fiscal policy at all will immediately understand what a conservative is trying to say when he utters those two names in the same sentence. Trickle down economics. These two presidents saw what looked like a supply side effect when they cut taxes. Reagan only saw it in his FIRST tax cut, it turns out the supply side effect (if any) essentially vanishes at the sort of tax rates we are talking about these days. IOW, when JFK lowered top marginal tax rates from 90% to 70%, we saw what looked like a supply side effect. When Reagan lowered the top marginal tax rate from 70% to 50%, we saw what looked like a supply side effect. When Reagan lowered it from 50% to 38% and then 28%, we did not see a similar effect. Similarly we didn’t see a contractionary effect when Clinton raised the top marginal tax rates from 31% to 39.6%. In the case of the JFK cuts, there was enough growth (some of it organic and some of it seemingly supply side) to almost make up for the lost revenue. In the case of the FIRST Reagan tax cut, there was growth but not nearly enough to make up for the loss in revenue (which is why we see the National debt spike during Reagan). His later tax cuts had almost no supply side effects. Similarly with the Bush tax cuts, there was no noticable supply side effect. Most conservative economists do not believe there is a significant supply side effect at these tax rates. Bush administration economists put the supply side effect at 25% of lost revenue and that probably overstates the supply side effect by about 25% (plus or minus a margin or error). With that background, what Ryan is saying is that if you accept his assumptions about how tax cuts stimulate the economy, that his tax cuts will largely pay for themselves, then you can in fact have revenue neutral tax cuts while only closing a few loopholes for really wealthy people if you accept his assumption that the economy will grow quickly enough to cover the majority of the lost revenue (of course he also assumes that a larger economy won’t require more government services but thats another story. > [@Jesus of Nazareth](#): > > I was put off by the religion question. I wish they would leave me out of these things. I think that was the point. Biden wants to leave you out of it, Ryan doesn’t think he can, not when you’re killing your baby. > [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > Probably people who watched the debate. I dunno what debate you guys and gals were watching, but Ryan presented himself fairly well while Biden looked like that old, drunken uncle you try to avoid at family gatherings. I think that has more to do with you than us. > [@Sateryn76](#): > > However, Martha Radditz was quite clearly allowing Biden to interrupt to a ridiculous extent (an old debate tacit to take the force out of an opponent’s reply) and made a habit of cutting Ryan off on rebuttal, which she did not do with Biden. She also challenged Ryan on his answers, without challenging Biden really at all. I won’t go so far as to say she was biased, but it was unbalanced moderation, and it will give the Ryan supports a leg to stand on. > **[Right-Wing Media Use Interruptions To Attack Debate Moderator Raddatz](https://www.mediamatters.org/laura-ingraham/right-wing-media-use-interruptions-attack-debate-moderator-raddatz)** > [@](#): > > Is anyone who bitched about Romney interrupting going to go on record condemning the same in Biden tonight? I don’t think Romney won the debate with interruptions, I think Obama lost the debate with passivity. > [@RyJae](#): > > If Ryan opened his mouth Biden laughed that was a jackass move. Rebuttal like a grown man, call him on his lie do not act like a dick. I am not prudish by any means, but I know enough about professional behavior… and Biden failed. If Ryan opened his mouth, he was usually lying. You can laugh or you can scream but the last debate proved that you can’t just sit there and not even acknowledge the other guy is full of shi—Malarkey. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vice-presidential-debate-thread/636999/500 "2012-10-12T20:37:31Z")
> [@Sam\_Lowry](#): > > I agree. That’s the biggest complaint a lot of people have about politics. It’s also the reason for a lot of voter apathy, because “all politicians lie.” So I’m very happy anytime a politician is called out on a lie. When there are just disagreements or different interpretations of things, then that’s one thing. But when someone is straight up lying I want them to be called out and the record set straight. Listening to the fact check (on NPR this morning, in my case) is rather depressing. There are very few flat-out pants-on-fire lies, but there are TONS of half-truths, cherry-picked facts, nuanced interpretations and slippery definitions. Finding the truth is nailing jello to the wall. And I’m embarrassed that both sides do it, although the Republicans truth-o-meter tends closer towards the pants-on-fire zone. So the take-away from any debate is never so much what was said, because that’s meaningless bafflegab – but how they said it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vice-presidential-debate-thread/636999.md?page=24) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vice-presidential-debate-thread/636999.md?page=26)