# Vicious circle and cycle **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 11, 2003, 7:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vicious-circle-and-cycle/187667 "2003-07-11T07:11:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![II\_Gyan\_II](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/bbe5ce/32.png) [@II\_Gyan\_II](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/II_Gyan_II)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2003, 7:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vicious-circle-and-cycle/187667/1 "2003-07-11T07:11:45Z")
I remember that Unca Cecil answered this quite some time back. But I can’t find the relevant article through Search. Can anyone post the link here? Thanks ---
**Author:** ![Tarantula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e274bd/32.png) [@Tarantula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tarantula)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2003, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vicious-circle-and-cycle/187667/2 "2003-07-11T11:13:07Z")
You haven’t asked a question, so posting in the “General Questions” forum is a bit odd. But let’s say you wanted to ask “Which of the two above is correct?” “Vicious Circle” is the more widely used. And with language, we are in one of those horrible situations where might (or numbers) eventually does make right. That’s why languages evolve. So to answer, “Vicious Circle” is the ‘correct’ one, for what it’s woth. That said, if you said to me “It’s a vicious cycle”, I wouldn’t stand there open-mouthed and go “Huh ???” Hope this helps. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2003, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vicious-circle-and-cycle/187667/3 "2003-07-11T12:22:22Z")
In some parts of North America, the regional accent makes the words almost indistinguishible, as in a Brooklynese “soy-cul”. In any case, the practical difference between “circle” and “cycle” is trivial. ---
**Author:** ![Zeldar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b77776/32.png) [@Zeldar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeldar)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2003, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vicious-circle-and-cycle/187667/4 "2003-07-11T12:32:38Z")
A circle has a fixed nature in that there’s no “start” and no “finish” and it’s contained in one spatial place. A “cycle” has ups and downs and even though it may have relative returns to similar heights or depths, it keeps moving forward (or backward) through time and space and never “closes.” If you consider the movement of the earth about the sun (as many people do) even when the earth returns to the same point in its orbit, that point in its orbit has _moved_ due to the sun’s own movement through the galaxy, and the galaxy’s movement(s) in inter-galactic space. So, instead of thinking of the earth’s path as a “circle” (more accurately an “ellipse”) it’s better to see it as a “helix.” We can never really go back to any point in space again. I vote for “vicious circle” as the only valid interpretation, since the “vicious cycle” is imaginary as far as I can tell. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2003, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vicious-circle-and-cycle/187667/5 "2003-07-11T13:41:58Z")
I’ll take the other tack, which is to say, you want to know what either one of these means, rather than which one is correct, since they are both common usage. (Actually you want a link but a link to what I’ve no idea.) A vicious cycle is where you get into a situation where a cause creates an undesirable effect, which in turn acts as a cause that creates an effect that puts you right back to the starting cause. For example, you are short of cash and decide to use your credit card to buy something. Then, because you are short of cash, you cannot pay the entire credit card bill when it comes. So you pay the minimum payment and pay 18% interest on the rest. You used all your cash to pay the bill and now you must use your credit card again the next time you buy something. The next bill has your new purchase plus even more interest, so you use all your cash to pay it. Ad infinitum. ---
**Author:** ![Zeldar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b77776/32.png) [@Zeldar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeldar)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2003, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vicious-circle-and-cycle/187667/6 "2003-07-11T13:46:35Z")
**CookingWithGas** , you make a fine case for the “vicious cycle” notion. I guess I hadn’t heard it in that context, but it does make perfect sense. Thanks for some enlightenment on the issue. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2003, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vicious-circle-and-cycle/187667/7 "2003-07-11T13:58:05Z")
I think they both mean the same (or almost the same); vicious circle is the more commonly used (and probably the ‘proper’ term), even though vicious _cycle_ is more logical. The only difference I can think of is that a vicious _cycle_ could imply some sort of repetitive worsening, as with **CookingWithGas** ’ example, whereas perhaps a vicious circle would be a situation that cannot be rectified because there is no reasonable starting point - example: Can’t get a job if you’re homeless, can’t get a home if you are unemployed. ---
**Author:** ![II\_Gyan\_II](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/bbe5ce/32.png) [@II\_Gyan\_II](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/II_Gyan_II)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2003, 7:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vicious-circle-and-cycle/187667/8 "2003-07-12T07:21:46Z")
Sorry for the confusion about there was a StraightDope column posted maybe, as far back as last January (2002) in which Unca Cecil resolved this issue. But I can’t find the column through the ‘Search’. Can someone find the article?