# Victims on flights 11, 175, 77 and 93. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 7, 2014, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/victims-on-flights-11-175-77-and-93/695027 "2014-08-07T13:18:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Bones\_Daley](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bc8723/32.png) [@Bones\_Daley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bones_Daley)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2014, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/victims-on-flights-11-175-77-and-93/695027/1 "2014-08-07T13:18:25Z")
Had a discussion/debate /argument last night with a committed proponent of the 9/11 conspiracy theory, and am not really interested in continuing that debate here, just seeking some factual information. My adversary claims that there were in fact no passengers on any of the planes which crashed, and maintains that there is no record anywhere of any obits, or interviews with family members by journalists. So all I need are a few links to some newspaper articles , or newsreel videos, in which the family members of the flight victims are “interviewed”. Come to that, there may well be members of this forum who had relatives who perished in the crashes. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2014, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/victims-on-flights-11-175-77-and-93/695027/2 "2014-08-07T13:39:04Z")
[Victims of Flight 93 USA Today](http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/nation/2001/09/11/victims-capsules.htm) The problem is you’re dealing with assholes that come up with shit like this. [Fl# 93: Mark Bingham - 9/11 “Lets Roll” HERO Proven a Fraud!](http://letsrollforums.com/fl-93-mark-bingham-t22141.html) ---
**Author:** ![Fretful\_Porpentine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fretful_porpentine/32/2873_2.png) [@Fretful\_Porpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fretful_Porpentine)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2014, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/victims-on-flights-11-175-77-and-93/695027/3 "2014-08-07T13:42:41Z")
[This site](http://legacy.com/sept11/Home.aspx) has a large collection of obituaries from all four of the flights. However, I doubt that any factual evidence whatsoever is going to make an impression on someone that deluded. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2014, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/victims-on-flights-11-175-77-and-93/695027/4 "2014-08-07T13:42:45Z")
Slightly “wooish” (premonitions) interview with widow of [Tom Burnett.](http://www.breakingchristiannews.com/articles/display_art.html?ID=2461) [10th anniversary gathering of Flt. 93 families.](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2036100/9-11-ANNIVERSARY-Flight-93-victims-families-join-crowd-Pennsylvania-memorial.html) ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2014, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/victims-on-flights-11-175-77-and-93/695027/5 "2014-08-07T13:53:31Z")
> [@Fretful\_Porpentine](#): > > [This site](http://legacy.com/sept11/Home.aspx) has a large collection of obituaries from all four of the flights. **However, I doubt that any factual evidence whatsoever is going to make an impression on someone that deluded**. This. You could invent time travel, put him on the plane for the last hour, pull him out in the last split second and he still wouldn’t believe. And trying to search for any factual info is drowned out by all the CT asshole sites. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2014, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/victims-on-flights-11-175-77-and-93/695027/6 "2014-08-07T14:19:15Z")
How about an [article](http://www.edmontonsun.com/2011/09/10/ace-bailey-gretzkys-friend-and-mentor-among-the-911-dead) with Wayne Gretzky’s reaction to his friend and mentor Garnet “Ace” Bailey perishing on flight 175. What would a prominent Canadian have to gain by lying about the events of 9/11? > [@](#): > > “Ace never had a bad day in his life. He was always smiling, he was always the life of the locker room. He was instrumental in putting players at ease and coaches at ease, at any time,” Gretzky recalled. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2014, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/victims-on-flights-11-175-77-and-93/695027/7 "2014-08-07T14:20:31Z")
Really? Here is [a partial list of victims on the flights](http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/nation/2001/09/11/victims-list.htm) including [Barbara Olson](http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/nation/2001/09/11/victims-olson.htm), who was a regular CNN commentator. This is just another “make up a fake factoid and use it to create fear, uncertainty, and doubt” tact common not only to 9/11 conspiracists but conspiracy “theorists” in general, like the “silver gun” found by Vince Foster’s hand or that Hitler’s remains were never found. (False and false.) Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2014, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/victims-on-flights-11-175-77-and-93/695027/8 "2014-08-07T14:34:18Z")
A friend of mine lost a colleague in his Boston office. He’ll be damned surprised to hear about this, not to mention wondering where the hell the guy’s been all these years. My own personal policy is not to give asswipes like the OP’s acquaintance the time of day, because there’s just no arguing with them. ---
**Author:** ![Ornery\_Bob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/da6949/32.png) [@Ornery\_Bob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ornery_Bob)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2014, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/victims-on-flights-11-175-77-and-93/695027/9 "2014-08-07T15:07:50Z")
As one of my college profs used to say, “Rationality never trumps emotions.” Irrational beliefs are emotionally based and it’s pointless to try to use rational argument to change them. Anyone who has ever fallen in love with someone who doesn’t feel the same way knows the truth of this. ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2014, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/victims-on-flights-11-175-77-and-93/695027/10 "2014-08-07T15:15:32Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > This. > You could invent time travel, put him on the plane for the last hour, pull him out in the last split second and he still wouldn’t believe. Well, he might believe if you left him there instead of pulling him out at the last second… and even if he doesn’t, you’re still better off. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2014, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/victims-on-flights-11-175-77-and-93/695027/11 "2014-08-07T15:29:30Z")
The true story of what happened to the passengers on those flights… that it was written down in 1977 shouldn’t dissuade true conspiracy theorists. [Air Raid,](http://www.baenebooks.com/chapters/9781625791542/9781625791542___3.htm) by John Varley. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2014, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/victims-on-flights-11-175-77-and-93/695027/12 "2014-08-07T15:29:49Z")
Punch him square in the face, then deny you did it. Ask for a cite. Continue to deny. Repeat as needed. ---
**Author:** ![fiddlesticks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddlesticks/32/18129_2.png) [@fiddlesticks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fiddlesticks)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2014, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/victims-on-flights-11-175-77-and-93/695027/13 "2014-08-07T16:10:33Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > Punch him square in the face, then deny you did it. Ask for a cite. Continue to deny. > > Repeat as needed. “The Buzz Aldrin argument.” Very handy. ---
**Author:** ![chargerrich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chargerrich/32/5399_2.png) [@chargerrich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chargerrich)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2014, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/victims-on-flights-11-175-77-and-93/695027/14 "2014-08-07T16:16:49Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > Punch him square in the face, then deny you did it. Ask for a cite. Continue to deny. > > Repeat as needed. Well played sir! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![SpoilerVirgin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@SpoilerVirgin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpoilerVirgin)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2014, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/victims-on-flights-11-175-77-and-93/695027/15 "2014-08-07T16:21:46Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Here is [a partial list of victims on the flights](http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/nation/2001/09/11/victims-list.htm) including [Barbara Olson](http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/nation/2001/09/11/victims-olson.htm), who was a regular CNN commentator. I just finished reading a [very good book](http://www.amazon.com/Redeeming-Dream-Case-Marriage-Equality/dp/0670015962/ref=tmm_hrd_title_0?ie=UTF8&qid=1407428401&sr=1-1) by Ted Olson. I was going to say that he must be wondering where his wife’s been all these years. ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2014, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/victims-on-flights-11-175-77-and-93/695027/16 "2014-08-07T16:22:47Z")
Come to think of it, I don’t recall seeing any interviews with family members of people who died in the two Malaysian airliners or the one in Mali, either. Hmmm. ---
**Author:** ![Bones\_Daley](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bc8723/32.png) [@Bones\_Daley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bones_Daley)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2014, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/victims-on-flights-11-175-77-and-93/695027/17 "2014-08-07T16:28:09Z")
I should have remembered Barbara Olson … but alas I didn’t. I think there are enough verifiable names on the links provided to convince my CT friend that there were indeed passengers on these flights. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2014, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/victims-on-flights-11-175-77-and-93/695027/18 "2014-08-07T16:45:18Z")
> [@Bones\_Daley](#): > > I should have remembered Barbara Olson … but alas I didn’t. > > I think there are enough verifiable names on the links provided\*\* to convince my CT friend\*\* that there were indeed passengers on these flights. You are in for a rude shock. ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2014, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/victims-on-flights-11-175-77-and-93/695027/19 "2014-08-07T16:59:09Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > [Victims of Flight 93 USA Today](http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/nation/2001/09/11/victims-capsules.htm) > > The problem is you’re dealing with assholes that come up with shit like this. > [Fl# 93: Mark Bingham - 9/11 “Lets Roll” HERO Proven a Fraud!](http://letsrollforums.com/fl-93-mark-bingham-t22141.html) Holy moly! I followed the second link. I had no idea. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2014, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/victims-on-flights-11-175-77-and-93/695027/20 "2014-08-07T16:59:11Z")
[David Angell,](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Angell) one of the creators of the show Frasier. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/victims-on-flights-11-175-77-and-93/695027.md?page=2)