# Victims on flights 11, 175, 77 and 93. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 7, 2014, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/victims-on-flights-11-175-77-and-93/695027 "2014-08-07T13:18:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2014, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/victims-on-flights-11-175-77-and-93/695027/101 "2014-08-19T12:33:55Z")
> [@vietnamvet](#): > > Now, how do you explain building #7 ? not hit by any “Plane” . But , all 3 buildings fell just like controlled demo. even tho they suffered 3 types of damage. As for the pentagon. that was like 55 minutes after the WTC was “hit”. Dick kept NORAD down and out. even after being told flight 77 was on the way. Hmmmm. would Dick lie about WMD? > start here. [www.ae911truth.org/](http://www.ae911truth.org/) > or [rethink911.org/](http://rethink911.org/) This thread isn’t about your hoary arguments which have been demolished far too many times in far too many others threads(we _really_ need to make up a master list of all the other threads to send people off to). What do you have to say about the claim that there were no actual victims from those 9-11 flights? ---
**Author:** ![split\_p\_j](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e19b73/32.png) [@split\_p\_j](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/split_p_j)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2014, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/victims-on-flights-11-175-77-and-93/695027/102 "2014-08-19T12:55:25Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > This thread isn’t about your hoary arguments which have been demolished far too many times in far too many others threads(we _really_ need to make up a master list of all the other threads to send people off to). What do you have to say about the claim that there were no actual victims from those 9-11 flights? I say that anyone that claims that there were no real victims on the planes are part of the disinformation campaign, whether they know it or not. This whole issue was started to make anyone who doubts the official story look crazy. We know there were real victims on those airplanes, and this whole thread does nothing to help explain all the lies that were told. You claim you demolish any disagreement with the official story on this board. All I’ve seen is that any cite that I bring up that points out the obvious lies in that story is dismissed out of hand. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2014, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/victims-on-flights-11-175-77-and-93/695027/103 "2014-08-19T12:58:46Z")
> [@split\_p\_j](#): > > I say that anyone that claims that there were no real victims on the planes are part of the disinformation campaign, whether they know it or not. This whole issue was started to make anyone who doubts the official story look crazy. > > We know there were real victims on those airplanes, and this whole thread does nothing to help explain all the lies that were told. > > You claim you demolish any disagreement with the official story on this board. All I’ve seen is that any cite that I bring up that points out the obvious lies in that story is dismissed out of hand. Nope. I’ll I’m claiming is that I thought the topic of this thread was the dead people on the 9-11 flights. ---
**Author:** ![split\_p\_j](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e19b73/32.png) [@split\_p\_j](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/split_p_j)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2014, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/victims-on-flights-11-175-77-and-93/695027/104 "2014-08-19T13:23:24Z")
It’s all part of the same thing, I’m sure you are well aware of that judging by your sarcasm. The whole no planes thing was basically started by the _Loose Change_ video, which has long been discredited as a CIA run operation. The CIA involvement is key, they are the dirty tricks people trying to clean up the mess after the fact. [People](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sibel_Edmonds) in the FBI, the investigators, knew something was going on _before_ 9/11 but were handcuffed at every turn when they tried to bring attention to it. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2014, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/victims-on-flights-11-175-77-and-93/695027/105 "2014-08-19T14:44:37Z")
Can’t say I’ve heard about loose change being a CIA operation… beyond the usual claims CTers make to try and dismiss the laughable errors they made in the past. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2014, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/victims-on-flights-11-175-77-and-93/695027/106 "2014-08-19T14:50:40Z")
> [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > Can’t say I’ve heard about loose change being a CIA operation… beyond the usual claims CTers make to try and dismiss the laughable errors they made in the past. That’s just another example of Troofers turning on their own like starving rats. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2014, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/victims-on-flights-11-175-77-and-93/695027/107 "2014-08-19T15:25:17Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …not quite true. There are plenty of reformed 9/11 Conspiracy theorists. I’ve chatted to a few. There are a few that will never reform, and a couple that are just doing it for the money. But I’ve watched, especially over at the Randi Forums, the process of people gradually realizing how impossible 9/11 Conspiracy theories really are. Its like coming out of a fog. Here’s one thread that catalogs several people’s processes for getting out of Trutherism: [http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=130827](http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=130827) There are other such thread if you look for them. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2014, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/victims-on-flights-11-175-77-and-93/695027/108 "2014-08-19T15:52:49Z")
> [@magnusblitz](#): > > Apparently some of the metadata for the obituary photo the AP/CNN used for Mark Bingham (one of the guys on Flight 93) had a creation date of 8/30/2001, which is “proof” that the obits were being written up before 9/11, because part of the whole conspiracy would be creating fake heroes and legends to help prod the country to war (or something). > > Googling around a bit turned up that the metadata does show a creation date of 8/30/2001, but also with a time of exactly midnight. An obituary photo of another victim (from the Pentagon) had a metadata of 2/5/2000, also at exactly midnight. So the real explanation is likely that some sort of bug in the metadata set the dates wrong, rather than it being evidence that the photo was created/uploaded just a few days before 9/11. This comes up in relation to every single conspiracy theory. The truth is that the metadates are just flat out wrong. I had some fun with date limited google searches in a misguided attempt to try to prove a conspiracy theorist wrong. Yes, if you search for the CT insiring event in the days leading up to the event, you will get lots of hits. If you search 2, 3 5 or 10 years before the event you will get lots of hits. Then I searched events that I felt could not possibly be the results of conspiracies. A house fire that killed several regular people on Christmas a few years back. The Trayvon Martin shooting. Phillip Seymour Hoffman’s fatal overdose. The rescue of the 3 kidnapped girls in Cleveland. Yes, I got hits on all of these days, weeks and years before the event.Yes, I’m not sure why but it appears that many of these searches reflected the date the page was created, not last updated. So if XYZ News created a page in 2002 that they update daily with the latest headlines, the search reflects the 2002 date. So I gave all this info along with the searches to my CT friend. His response was something along the lines of “Wow, this goes deeper than I thought!”. Lesson learned -I’ll never tilt at that windmill again. ---
**Author:** ![vietnamvet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/90db22/32.png) [@vietnamvet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vietnamvet)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2014, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/victims-on-flights-11-175-77-and-93/695027/109 "2014-08-19T17:00:19Z")
Some questions remain. about flight 77 With such a lead time. We knew flight 11 was hi-jacked 76 minutes before the Pentagon was hit. The standard protocol for an event is; If a plane threatens the “secure” air space around D.C. First ; radio contact with the plane is attempted. if that fails a USAF jet is sent up to make visual contact. If the plane refuses to follow the air force jet. It drops flares in front of the offending plane. to get their attention. But, none of this was done on 9/11 because Dick didn’t order it. Now, it seems he wanted the pentagon hit. Follow the money? If you want to talk about victims. Almost 5000 Americans died in Iraq. 3000 in the WTC . And to think Afghanistan didn’t attack the U.S. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2014, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/victims-on-flights-11-175-77-and-93/695027/110 "2014-08-19T17:10:02Z")
> [@vietnamvet](#): > > Some questions remain. about flight 77 > With such a lead time. We knew flight 11 was hi-jacked 76 minutes before the Pentagon was hit. The standard protocol for an event is; If a plane threatens the “secure” air space around D.C. First ; radio contact with the plane is attempted. if that fails a USAF jet is sent up to make visual contact. If the plane refuses to follow the air force jet. It drops flares in front of the offending plane. to get their attention. > But, none of this was done on 9/11 because Dick didn’t order it. > Now, it seems he wanted the pentagon hit. Follow the money? > If you want to talk about victims. Almost 5000 Americans died in Iraq. > 3000 in the WTC . And to think Afghanistan didn’t attack the U.S. Don’t feel like answering this crap for the umpteenth time because we’ve done far too many threads on the subject. Rather than take your buddy’s word that these questions have never been answered, just Google the damn questions and find out for yourself. If you want to find out what we have to say on the subject, we already talked about it, so go do a search to see what we said. ---
**Author:** ![sweeteviljesus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/898d66/32.png) [@sweeteviljesus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sweeteviljesus)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2014, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/victims-on-flights-11-175-77-and-93/695027/111 "2014-08-19T17:13:00Z")
What do you think about the now proven allegations that Alex Jones is a CIA operative? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2014, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/victims-on-flights-11-175-77-and-93/695027/112 "2014-08-19T17:28:30Z")
> [@sweeteviljesus](#): > > What do you think about the now proven allegations that Alex Jones is a CIA operative? 1. Proven by who-what legit news source reported this? 2. What does this have to do with whether people died on the 9-11 flights? ---
**Author:** ![sweeteviljesus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/898d66/32.png) [@sweeteviljesus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sweeteviljesus)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2014, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/victims-on-flights-11-175-77-and-93/695027/113 "2014-08-19T17:31:02Z")
Clearly, proven by the same people who enlightened us to the fact that Loose Change was a CIA false flag operation. Poe’s Law. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2014, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/victims-on-flights-11-175-77-and-93/695027/114 "2014-08-19T17:52:03Z")
> [@sweeteviljesus](#): > > Clearly, proven by the same people who enlightened us to the fact that Loose Change was a CIA false flag operation. Poe’s Law. :smack: Lapel pins, people-how then hell are we going to tell who’s who unless you wear your lapel pins? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2014, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/victims-on-flights-11-175-77-and-93/695027/115 "2014-08-19T19:55:46Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Don’t feel like answering this crap for the umpteenth time because we’ve done far too many threads on the subject. Rather than take your buddy’s word that these questions have never been answered, just Google the damn questions and find out for yourself. > If you want to find out what we have to say on the subject, we already talked about it, so go do a search to see what we said. Nevermind. This is a _good_ thread. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/victims-on-flights-11-175-77-and-93/695027/116 "2014-08-20T15:43:58Z")
Did a post get removed from this thread? There are replies to a post I cannot see. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/victims-on-flights-11-175-77-and-93/695027/117 "2014-08-20T15:48:10Z")
> [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > Did a post get removed from this thread? There are replies to a post I cannot see. [Appropriate link.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=731539) ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/victims-on-flights-11-175-77-and-93/695027/118 "2014-08-20T15:48:43Z")
It appears he was a sock. ---
**Author:** ![dasmili](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df788c/32.png) [@dasmili](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmili)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/victims-on-flights-11-175-77-and-93/695027/119 "2014-08-20T20:07:05Z")
I have a friend whose father was on the plane that hit the Pentagon. His name is on the list of victims posted earlier in the thread. I also work at one of the 9/11 airports (though I wasn’t yet there at the time) and know people who were there when the hijackers came through, including an airline agent who is still shaken from having personally checked one of them in. I will never have any patience for any of the conspiracy theorists. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/victims-on-flights-11-175-77-and-93/695027/120 "2014-08-20T23:19:53Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > This is a _good_ thread. Yes, a _real_ good thread. Didn’t the mods do a good job wishing that fellow away to the cornfield? A _real_ good job. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/victims-on-flights-11-175-77-and-93/695027.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/victims-on-flights-11-175-77-and-93/695027.md?page=7)