# Victorian Novels: Why blank names? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** books-writing-myths\ **Created:** [March 15, 2023, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/victorian-novels-why-blank-names/981221 "2023-03-15T15:34:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2023, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/victorian-novels-why-blank-names/981221/1 "2023-03-15T15:34:40Z")
I don’t have a specific novel in mind but this is so common you’ll know what I’m talking about. I’m wondering why novels of this specific era (and it’s usually English Novels) leave out names in a fictional or at least fantastical tale. Why Mrs. F\_\_\_\_\_\_ or, The Right Honorable Gentleman Mr. P\_\_\_\_\_ esq. The only thing that comes to mind is it might be titillating to a reader of that era to believe these are real people whos reputations would be tarnished if a certain corrupt deed was discovered or whatever. But maybe there is an obvious reason I don’t know. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2023, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/victorian-novels-why-blank-names/981221/2 "2023-03-15T15:53:46Z")
I thought they were trying to make the novel seem more real by with holding names. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2023, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/victorian-novels-why-blank-names/981221/3 "2023-03-15T15:56:14Z")
My impression is that this is earlier than the Victorian era, and my guess is that it’s following the style of gossipy scandal-sheets, (_“Milady F\_\_\_\_\_ has been much seen in the company of Mr. B------, much to Lord F\_\_\_\_\_'s displeasure”)_ so as to add some verisimilitude with an air of secret knowledge. Or it relates to minor characters that they don’t want to make significant by giving them a name, or can’t be bothered to make one up. I don’t think the libel laws in England would have been a significant issue until the [Artemus Jones case in 1910](https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/03061973211007357). ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2023, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/victorian-novels-why-blank-names/981221/4 "2023-03-15T15:56:45Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I thought they were trying to make the novel seem more real by with holding names. You may very well be right, but it is strange that this wasn’t a thing (Shakespeare) then it was a thing (Bronte sisters) and now it’s not (Ian Flemming). So what gives? ETA: Though now that I think about it Agatha Christie has some of this, perhaps it’s because she straddles eras. ---
**Author:** ![Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/prof.pepperwinkle/32/13627_2.png) [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prof.Pepperwinkle)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2023, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/victorian-novels-why-blank-names/981221/5 "2023-03-15T15:59:39Z")
It was also true of place names. “Eleanor went to visit her sister Anne on the 5th in St. \_\_\_\_\_ .” ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2023, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/victorian-novels-why-blank-names/981221/6 "2023-03-15T16:08:28Z")
I have heard that there were a few reasons for this. One, as already mentioned, was to give the illusion that the story was real, and that names and places had to be censored to protect the innocent (or the guilty). The second is that it was intended to make the story more adaptable. If they only give you part of a name or just an initial, your imagination can fill in the blanks and make the story more personal to you, pertaining to local areas and local people perhaps. The third was to avoid potential libel suits and such if you were to get facts wrong about a particular place. Say for example your novel talks about the seedy side of Bedfordshire, which upsets the folks who actually live in Bedfordshire and decide to sue you for causing harm and insult to them and their shire by saying it has a seedy side. By calling it -----shire you avoid any chance of getting sued. Mostly though, I believe it was the first reason, wanting to appear more authentic. It was a fad that caught on for some reason, and then eventually went out of style. ---
**Author:** ![Daithi\_Lacha](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/daithi_lacha/32/5430_2.png) [@Daithi\_Lacha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daithi_Lacha)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2023, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/victorian-novels-why-blank-names/981221/7 "2023-03-15T16:18:35Z")
I’ll also note that in correspondence during this time (and perhaps later), names that were familiar to both writer and reader would simply be identified as initial + dash. So perhaps doing so in fiction lent a certain sort of false intimacy between author and the reading public? ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2023, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/victorian-novels-why-blank-names/981221/8 "2023-03-15T16:21:08Z")
> [@engineer\_comp\_geek](#): > > and then eventually went out of style. There are islands in the Caribbean where the local newspaper does not publish the entire last name. For instance, they will print, "Police responded to a call from Snappy Pub where they arrested Mr G\_\_\_\_\_\_, who everyone knows as “Zipp”. He was most unorderly and was told to stay at home the remainder of the week. It’s wacky. They do not publish the entire last name, but they go on to add identifying information, like a nickname or where the person works. It makes reading the news fun. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2023, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/victorian-novels-why-blank-names/981221/9 "2023-03-15T16:24:48Z")
> [@engineer\_comp\_geek](#): > > The third was to avoid potential libel suits and such if you were to get facts wrong about a particular place. Say for example your novel talks about the seedy side of Bedfordshire, which upsets the folks who actually live in Bedfordshire and decide to sue you for causing harm and insult to them and their shire by saying it has a seedy side. By calling it -----shire you avoid any chance of getting sued. Victorian obsessions with reputations and litigations I suspect is exactly the answer. Also dueling was still a thing, you watch what you write when even a misunderstanding can get you killed. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2023, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/victorian-novels-why-blank-names/981221/10 "2023-03-15T18:11:38Z")
I agree that it almost certainly originated in newspapers. I also agree with the reasons given by others for why it continued. The air of mystery it engendered drove imaginations more than a Smith or Jones would have. Not giving a date - Poe was prone to writing 18-- - made an old story seem fresh. Leaving towns vague allowed the reader to think of many possibilities in the crowded British countryside. Verisimilitude has almost always been more prized in fiction than accuracy. One tiny misstated fact can sour a reader. That can’t happen with Mr. H\_\_\_ strolling through G\_\_\_\_ to go the the T\_\_ and A\_\_\_ pub to meet Miss W\_\_\_\_\_. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2023, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/victorian-novels-why-blank-names/981221/11 "2023-03-15T18:12:22Z")
Perhaps it was just a courtesy to those with a coincidentally identical name, like we use the 555 prefix for fictional phone numbers. ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2023, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/victorian-novels-why-blank-names/981221/12 "2023-03-15T19:15:21Z")
I read a lot of old books, and this convention always distances me from the book. I certainly don’t fill in names I know instead. It’s just annoying. So glad it’s a technique that died out. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2023, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/victorian-novels-why-blank-names/981221/13 "2023-03-15T20:36:55Z")
I agree with this 100%, frankly strange it even began in the first place. What is the point of fiction at all if you’re too scared to even name imaginary people doing imaginary things. ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2023, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/victorian-novels-why-blank-names/981221/14 "2023-03-15T20:43:01Z")
Seriously. You’re an author who doesn’t have the ability to make up a few names and places??? ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2023, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/victorian-novels-why-blank-names/981221/15 "2023-03-15T21:03:48Z")
I think we’re stumbling on how Dickens invented himself. “Mr. S. B. went to the store yesterday. Naw son, that sucks.” “Mr. Serjeant Buzfuz went to the store yesterday. Fire.” ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2023, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/victorian-novels-why-blank-names/981221/16 "2023-03-15T21:22:16Z")
Yeah, no one can accuse Dickens of boring character names! ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2023, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/victorian-novels-why-blank-names/981221/17 "2023-03-15T21:31:28Z")
I don’t think they were afraid to use names, or unable to make up names. I think it was the style at the time in both private letters and newpapers to use monikers like “Mr. S—” and novels were written in the same style just because that was the style. For newpapers, there may have been fear of libel. For personal letters, it might have been partly a fear they’d be intercepted, or it might simply have been that it’s faster to write “S\_\_\_\_” with your quill pen dipped in ink than it is to spell out the name. ---
**Author:** ![Shoeless](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shoeless/32/7099_2.png) [@Shoeless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shoeless)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2023, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/victorian-novels-why-blank-names/981221/18 "2023-03-15T21:39:14Z")
So, what’s the deal with Major \_\_\_\_\_\_\_ DeCoverley in “Catch-22”? ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2023, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/victorian-novels-why-blank-names/981221/19 "2023-03-15T21:43:07Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > I agree with this 100%, frankly strange it even began in the first place. What is the point of fiction at all if you’re too scared to even name imaginary people doing imaginary things. Or you could believe that to readers of that era, the use of dashes made fiction **more** believable, **more** realistic, and **more** personalized. And that writers in many countries of many types of literature of many genres and styles kept using this convention for more than century because they understood the wants and needs of their own readers so well. Or not. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2023, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/victorian-novels-why-blank-names/981221/20 "2023-03-15T22:46:56Z")
> [@Shoeless](#): > > So, what’s the deal with Major \_\_\_\_\_\_\_ DeCoverley Nobody in the novel has the guts to ask him his first name. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/victorian-novels-why-blank-names/981221.md?page=2)