# Video game deletes files as you go **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [November 4, 2009, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-game-deletes-files-as-you-go/516338 "2009-11-04T22:30:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-game-deletes-files-as-you-go/516338/1 "2009-11-04T22:30:59Z")
A new game has been released for the Mac. As you play, it [deletes files](http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/09/11/04/art_project_video_game_attacks_apple_mac_machines.html). Symantec is describing it as malware. ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-game-deletes-files-as-you-go/516338/2 "2009-11-04T22:33:39Z")
Malware? How is that? When you run the program, at startup it supposedly tells you that it’s going to delete files while you play! ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-game-deletes-files-as-you-go/516338/3 "2009-11-04T22:35:15Z")
> [@Arnold\_Winkelried](#): > > Malware? How is that? When you run the program, at startup it supposedly tells you that it’s going to delete files while you play! Well, that’s how Symantec describes it. Supposedly someone else could modify it to be a real threat. If I try it, I’ll create a new user account for it. ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-game-deletes-files-as-you-go/516338/4 "2009-11-04T23:12:23Z")
You could modify it, sure, but then again you can easily write your own program to do a bunch of malicious stuff (if you’re a programmer). The tricky part is convincing someone to download your program and run it. I seem to remember, many many years ago, a [Hypercard](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypercard) stack that would show you black and white pictures of naked women (this tells you how long ago that was) and while you were viewing the pictures it would be silently deleting files in the background. ---
**Author:** ![LeeshaJoy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e8cbc/32.png) [@LeeshaJoy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LeeshaJoy)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-game-deletes-files-as-you-go/516338/5 "2009-11-04T23:15:21Z")
A friend of mine linked me to the PC version of this a few weeks ago. Sounds to me like some pretentious college student shooting for profound insight and missing by a mile. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Barchetta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/da6949/32.png) [@Red\_Barchetta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Barchetta)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-game-deletes-files-as-you-go/516338/6 "2009-11-04T23:16:03Z")
> [@Arnold\_Winkelried](#): > > Malware? How is that? When you run the program, at startup it supposedly tells you that it’s going to delete files while you play! I haven’t seen the “game” in question, but perhaps people simply wouldn’t take the warning seriously? There have been numerous (actual) video games over the years that threaten to “delete your save file” (Banjo-Kazooie, for instance), and of course they don’t. ---
**Author:** ![Yumblie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/76d3ee/32.png) [@Yumblie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yumblie)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2009, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-game-deletes-files-as-you-go/516338/7 "2009-11-05T05:33:05Z")
> [@Red\_Barchetta](#): > > I haven’t seen the “game” in question, but perhaps people simply wouldn’t take the warning seriously? There have been numerous (actual) video games over the years that threaten to “delete your save file” (Banjo-Kazooie, for instance), and of course they don’t. Actually, Banjo-Kazooie would delete your save file if you put in too many cheat codes at once, though it would warn you. Not that big a deal though, since it isn’t deleting non-game files on your computer that would be important. As for this game, what’s the point? Why would anyone play a game that deletes their files? If the game’s meant as a statement and not meant to be played, then…okay, but…why?? ---
**Author:** ![Torpor\_Beast](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/71e660/32.png) [@Torpor\_Beast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Torpor_Beast)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2009, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-game-deletes-files-as-you-go/516338/8 "2009-11-05T12:04:07Z")
Ye gods, reading that alledged “news article” gives me _The Rage_. How is this piece of software “attacking” anything, when the author tells you quite openly what will happen if you run it? This kind of shite masquerading as journalism and getting accepted as the norm, is a much bigger threat to everyone than some random guy’s art project. > [@](#): > > But the security firm cautioned that the threat, called OSX.Loosemaque, could be modified by someone with “more malicious intentions” and passed on to unsuspecting users without the current warnings. "Multi-Level Buildings Attack Unsuspecting Citizens! - Buildings with multiple floors can conceivably be used to commit suicide. " Also, ```auto rm -rf ~ ``` If typed in a local terminal window, that line will delete everything in your home directory on your Mac, without asking for confirmation. Better alert Symantec, since it’d take someone only a few seconds to make a script file out of that and use it for some Unspeakable Devilry. Speaking of Lose/Lose itself, I suspect Mr. Cage can count it as a success. Some people seem to be mightily annoyed by the fact that they’re given the option to shoot the enemies, but are being penalized for it. Which shows how narrowly we view what computer games should be like. I found this quote delicious, given the shitstorm the game has caused by doing something that people can’t immediately categorize, but somehow feels negative, considering that it’s their preshus files we’re potentially talking about, even though nothing forces them to even download the game: > [@](#): > > As technology grows, our understanding of it diminishes, yet, at the same time, it becomes increasingly important in our lives. At what point does our virtual data become as important to us as physical possessions? If we have reached that point already, what real objects do we value less than our data? What implications does trusting something so important to something we understand so poorly have? ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2009, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-game-deletes-files-as-you-go/516338/9 "2009-11-05T13:56:08Z")
I personally think all games should be sandboxed in such a way that they can’t write files outside of their preferences/save game folder. There’s no reason for the game to even see anything else in my home folder. In fact, this should go for all programs. Except maybe that should be limited to “overwrite”, and exclude the document you are explicitly opening (although that should have an automatic backup.) ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2009, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-game-deletes-files-as-you-go/516338/10 "2009-11-05T16:21:31Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I personally think all games should be sandboxed in such a way that they can’t write files outside of their preferences/save game folder. There’s no reason for the game to even see anything else in my home folder. > > In fact, this should go for all programs. Except maybe that should be limited to “overwrite”, and exclude the document you are explicitly opening (although that should have an automatic backup.) For that matter, games shouldn’t create anything outside their own damn folder. I hate hate hate hate hate games that create their own folder deep inside MyDocuments, and C:/Program Files (I don’t use that folder. DON’T USE IT EITHER, especially after you’ve prompted me where I wanted to install the gorram game, and I answered “not in C:/Program Files.”) ---
**Author:** ![bouv](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bc8723/32.png) [@bouv](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bouv)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2009, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-game-deletes-files-as-you-go/516338/11 "2009-11-05T22:22:20Z")
What you two ask isn’t feasible. The way that operating systems and applications work these days is so complex that you’re asking the impossible. Edit: And how do you not use the program files folder? There’s shit in there right from the get go from the Windows install. Since those things have to be there, might as well put all your other applications in there that want to be, right? ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2009, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-game-deletes-files-as-you-go/516338/12 "2009-11-05T22:32:33Z")
> [@Torpor\_Beast](#): > > I found this quote delicious, given the shitstorm the game has caused by doing something that people can’t immediately categorize, but somehow feels negative, considering that it’s their preshus files we’re potentially talking about, even though nothing forces them to even download the game: Delicious? I can’t even parse it. I have no idea how what he said links up to his game at all. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2009, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-game-deletes-files-as-you-go/516338/13 "2009-11-05T23:38:54Z")
Ages ago, there was a mod for Doom (or maybe Doom II) where every time you killed an enemy, it killed a process on your computer, with the final boss corresponding to the process for the game itself. This is nothing new. ---
**Author:** ![Electronic\_Chaos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Electronic\_Chaos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Electronic_Chaos)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2009, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-game-deletes-files-as-you-go/516338/14 "2009-11-05T23:43:32Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > Delicious? I can’t even parse it. I have no idea how what he said links up to his game at all. Essentially he’s asking “Have we gotten to the point where something so precious to us is contained in things we don’t really understand?” Which is kind of silly, in my opinion. There’s quite a bit we put our trust in that we don’t always understand. For example, I’d be surprised if the average Joe could tell you how air bags, anti-lock brakes, and other car safety features work, and yet we for the most part trust them to keep us safe. ---
**Author:** ![Electronic\_Chaos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Electronic\_Chaos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Electronic_Chaos)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2009, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-game-deletes-files-as-you-go/516338/15 "2009-11-05T23:47:15Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Ages ago, there was a mod for Doom (or maybe Doom II) where every time you killed an enemy, it killed a process on your computer, with the final boss corresponding to the process for the game itself. This is nothing new. I remember that, too. It was actually for Unix, and a “tool” for system administration. Each baddy represented a process and they were labeled, though. [Here’s a link](http://www.cs.unm.edu/~dlchao/flake/doom/) ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2009, 10:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-game-deletes-files-as-you-go/516338/16 "2009-11-06T10:07:33Z")
> [@bouv](#): > > What you two ask isn’t feasible. The way that operating systems and applications work these days is so complex that you’re asking the impossible. > > Edit: And how do you not use the program files folder? There’s shit in there right from the get go from the Windows install. Since those things have to be there, might as well put all your other applications in there that want to be, right? My app folder is not on c:, and neither is MyDocs - in fact, as little as possible is on c:. It’s a habit I took up when I worked as a sysadmin. Makes it much easier to scrap and reinstall the OS if (or rather, when) it craps over itself. So, when it does, I hardly think about it, format the system drive and reinstall a clean Windows from scratch… only to find that all my saves have disappeared, because the game used the general c:\MyDocs folder instead of X:\Kobal2\Documents which is the default on this machine. Or because half of the game was in c:\ProgramFiles, or whatever. It’s just bad form. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2009, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-game-deletes-files-as-you-go/516338/17 "2009-11-07T06:52:08Z")
> [@bouv](#): > > What you two ask isn’t feasible. The way that operating systems and applications work these days is so complex that you’re asking the impossible. I think you are misunderstanding me. Have you used a Mac? All the files for an app are in one folder (that ends in .app). Even on a PC, the only time a program usually WRITES outside of it’s directory (or the appropriate AppData directory, now that we are being more careful with account restrictions) is when it is installed. And all it really needs to write are shared DLLs, which should be signed anyway. You need to know they are safe to install, so you won’t mess up some other program that needs it. Once a game is installed, the only time it needs to write to disk is when you save or modify configurations. Other apps may need to edit a shared document, but that allowance could be explicit by letting the OS handle file selection. It wants to overwrite a file? The user has to specifically tell the OS which file it’s allowed to touch. And of course there would be exceptions, like antivirus software, that really need to have access to the whole system. I would also expect these to be signed. The user should get a dialog box like “This Antivirus Software has been signed by XYZ company. If you trust this company, click Install. If not, click Cancel.” And allow only an Administrator to edit the allowed list. Yes I realize this would require a complete overhaul of how OS’s currently work. But, right now, the best security model we have was designed over 11 years ago. > [@Kobal2](#): > > My app folder is not on c:, and neither is MyDocs - in fact, as little as possible is on c:. It’s a habit I took up when I worked as a sysadmin. Makes it much easier to scrap and reinstall the OS if (or rather, when) it craps over itself. I used to do that, back before I realized I’d have to wind up reinstalling most of those programs anyways. (I could try to keep track of registry changes, but that’s a lot of work.) But, instead of changing the default directories, I turned them into [Junction Points](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NTFS_junction_point) (aka folder symlinks before the stupid Vista implementation). That way, any program that tries to write in the wrong folder still gets redirected. Vista on up comes with a command line program to do it, but Windows XP doesn’t. There are two different programs for this (one command line, one an Explorer extension) in the external links section of the Wikipedia link above. I still do this for MyDocs, as there are still some programs that expect it to be on the C drive. I probably should do it for my entire profile folder. ---
**Author:** ![badlyburnttoast](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ad7895/32.png) [@badlyburnttoast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/badlyburnttoast)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2009, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-game-deletes-files-as-you-go/516338/18 "2009-11-07T22:23:13Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I personally think all games should be sandboxed in such a way that they can’t write files outside of their preferences/save game folder. There’s no reason for the game to even see anything else in my home folder. > > In fact, this should go for all programs. Except maybe that should be limited to “overwrite”, and exclude the document you are explicitly opening (although that should have an automatic backup.) [http://www.sandboxie.com/](http://www.sandboxie.com/) You can run any program in it’s own little sandbox and it can’t run amok trashing your computer or leaving crap laying around everywhere. Just delete the sandbox and you delete everything the program created or changed. I have no idea why windows does not do something like this automatically, or at least have a built in option for it. ---
**Author:** ![\_cc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/_/e19b73/32.png) [@\_cc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/_cc)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-game-deletes-files-as-you-go/516338/19 "2009-11-09T06:33:43Z")
What bothers me about this game is not the security hazards it poses but the lofty airs the developer puts on claiming he wants to make people “think about what it means to be the aggressor in a video game”. Utterly pretentious tripe. ---
**Author:** ![Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Disgruntled_Penguin)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 11:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-game-deletes-files-as-you-go/516338/20 "2009-11-09T11:05:41Z")
> [@Torpor\_Beast](#): > > Speaking of Lose/Lose itself, I suspect Mr. Cage can count it as a success. Some people seem to be mightily annoyed by the fact that they’re given the option to shoot the enemies, but are being penalized for it. Which shows how narrowly we view what computer games should be like. I really don’t feel that I have a narrow view of how computer games should be like but honestly, but randomly destroying system files would definitely be on the list of what computer games should not be like. Beyond that, I’m open for discussion. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-game-deletes-files-as-you-go/516338.md?page=2)