# Video Game Licensing Question **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 15, 2006, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-game-licensing-question/340083 "2006-01-15T11:41:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2006, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-game-licensing-question/340083/1 "2006-01-15T11:41:06Z")
I am bored an so I am playing the dreadful “First to Fight” game. I find it a bit less realistic than “Duke Nukem,” by the way. So I am shooting at various Arabs (who do not seem to speak Arabic) and destroying their machine-gun pickup trucks, and a question comes to mind. Why are the vehicles all generic? Why are they not Toyota Hi-Luxes? These are the most popular pickups in the region. I understand if I want to make a game, say a race-car game, I cannot call one of my cars a Toyota without Toyota’s permission. Toyota will charge me a licensing fee. Further they will restrict me, no flipping, never more than one wheel off the ground, all of that. But, if I wanted to make a first-person shooter, and if I wanted to make it very realistic, could I not make the cars Toyotas and simply not claim they are Toyotas? They look like a Toyota, they have a Toyota badge, but I am not selling it as a Toyota-shooting game. Could not (say) Vice City have realistic 7-11 stores in the background? I understand that if I wanted to make the store a scene of the action, I would need permission, but as a ubiquitous part of the urban landscape, can I use their logo and so on? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2006, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-game-licensing-question/340083/2 "2006-01-15T14:05:40Z")
> [@Paul in Saudi](#): > > IBut, if I wanted to make a first-person shooter, and if I wanted to make it very realistic, could I not make the cars Toyotas and simply not claim they are Toyotas? They look like a Toyota, they have a Toyota badge, but I am not selling it as a Toyota-shooting game. The badge is a registered trademark, so that would be an infringement. ---
**Author:** ![jasonh300](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/46a35a/32.png) [@jasonh300](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasonh300)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2006, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-game-licensing-question/340083/3 "2006-01-15T16:31:37Z")
> [@Paul in Saudi](#): > > Could not (say) Vice City have realistic 7-11 stores in the background? I understand that if I wanted to make the store a scene of the action, I would need permission, but as a ubiquitous part of the urban landscape, can I use their logo and so on? Vice city did it with the cars, with everything BUT badges. It was pretty easy to identify what kind of car you were looking at, and the names they assigned were even close, such as “Mustang”/“Stallion”. GTA3 cars were a little more generic. Haven’t seen San Andreas yet. For the store, why not make it look exactly like a 7-11 but put up a sign that says 8-10. Then you’re not infringing on trademarks, so you don’t pay any royalties. I understand the part about wanting realistic looking cars, but is the detail of the badge really important? ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2006, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-game-licensing-question/340083/4 "2006-01-15T16:40:38Z")
I don’t think it’s a matter of not wanting to pay royalties but rather not being paid marketing fees. I think some video game developers charge companies to display their trademarks in the games, so why display the Toyota badge for free? ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2006, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-game-licensing-question/340083/5 "2006-01-15T17:03:42Z")
How odd (although I understand the legal reasoning), these trademarks are part of the background noise of modern life, yet I cannot use them to recreate the background noise of modern life. Is this why ethnic grocery stores get robbed in movies, but never 7-11s? Can 7-11 forbid me from making a shoot-out movie in one of their stores? What if I ‘recreated’ a shootout that actually happened in a 7-11? ---
**Author:** ![St\_Ides](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@St\_Ides](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/St_Ides)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2006, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-game-licensing-question/340083/6 "2006-01-16T06:11:29Z")
> [@Dewey Finn](#): > > I don’t think it’s a matter of not wanting to pay royalties but rather not being paid marketing fees. I think some video game developers charge companies to display their trademarks in the games, so why display the Toyota badge for free? Would you want your products associated with “terrorists”? I’m sure Toyota doesn’t. If it were for a good use, like a supercar, I doubt they’d mind… But they’d still have to disallow it. IANAL (lawyer) but if they simply allow anyone to use their logo and don’t do anything about it, even if it’s shown in a positive light, they may lose some of their ability to defend their IP in court. If taken to court, it’s possible the company may simply say “Hey look, this other company is using the trademark without permission, and it’s being allowed, why are we singled out?” In which case the judge may be inclined to agree and allow the continued use of their trademark. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2006, 9:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-game-licensing-question/340083/7 "2006-01-16T09:23:16Z")
> [@Paul in Saudi](#): > > But, if I wanted to make a first-person shooter, and if I wanted to make it very realistic, could I not make the cars Toyotas and simply not claim they are Toyotas? I work for Sony designing videogames. Companies tend to be very protective of their trademarks. Probably most wouldn’t go so far as to sue a game company, but why take the risk? Particularly over something that’s not very important to the game? I remember at one point in the 90’s AMC actually took out an ad in Game Developer magazine reminding developers that the Jeep grill was trademarked. At Sony virtually all of our content gets run through legal to make sure we’re not violating any trademark. If we want to use a real-world brand we have to get permission. Sometimes that costs money, sometimes a company will give us the rights for free for the exposure. Deals where the company pays us to be in a game are rare. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2006, 10:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-game-licensing-question/340083/8 "2006-01-16T10:01:40Z")
Hmmmm. Right now I’m replaying Fallout, and they have several brand name guns in the game. I’m not sure if the guns are real life guns (Desert Eagle 44? H&K Whatever?)(I AM positive that the Alien Blaster is pure fiction :D) and now I’ll have to check the game to see what brand names are represented…I’m not interested in shooting real guns, for the most part, only the video game versions. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2006, 10:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-game-licensing-question/340083/9 "2006-01-16T10:51:39Z")
One of the disappointments in the PS2 game _Burnout 3_ is that the cars are all generic made-up models, so the sense of recognition and acknowledgement of their power is gone. ---
**Author:** ![racer72](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/racer72/32/3075_2.png) [@racer72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/racer72)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2006, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-game-licensing-question/340083/10 "2006-01-16T12:37:47Z")
> [@Dewey Finn](#): > > I don’t think it’s a matter of not wanting to pay royalties but rather not being paid marketing fees. I think some video game developers charge companies to display their trademarks in the games, so why display the Toyota badge for free? That was the exact line of thinking I used after I received a cease and desist letter from Orange Crush when I used their logos on a car for a NASCAR sim and posted the car on the internet to be downloaded. There is a fine line between free promotion and copyright infringement and the threat of being sued for $10,000 convinced me to remove the car from my site. The NASCAR sim I currently race (NASCAR Racing 2003) has 7 pages of copyright release info in the back of the instruction book and the type is pretty small. I doubt many companies are going to pay for the privelige of having their product show up in a video game when the standard has always been to pay them. ---
**Author:** ![mazinger\_z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f9b8f/32.png) [@mazinger\_z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mazinger_z)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2006, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-game-licensing-question/340083/11 "2006-01-16T16:43:26Z")
> [@Paul in Saudi](#): > > Can 7-11 forbid me from making a shoot-out movie in one of their stores? What if I ‘recreated’ a shootout that actually happened in a 7-11? This is a classic copyright question. A 7-11 can stop you from shooting a movie in one of their stores because it is their property. There is nothing inherently unlawful about filming a movie in a 7-11, they just may not want you to do it because it would interfere with their business, among other reasons. If you were filming the shootout as it happened, then you would most likely have a fair use exception (sorry, my copyright law is rusty). If you were recreating a shootout, and you were 100% accurate in mimicking every detail, you would still need clearances (written permission to use objects, subjects, trademarks, etc.) so that you can make your film. You will need clearances from the people involved to use their likeness, name, etc. You will need clearances from 7-11 to recreate or use their property, logo, etc., and pay marketing fees and license fees for any products that make it into the scene.