# Video of police shooting man in St. Louis (near Ferguson, MO) **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 21, 2014, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-of-police-shooting-man-in-st-louis-near-ferguson-mo/696090 "2014-08-21T14:13:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 10:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-of-police-shooting-man-in-st-louis-near-ferguson-mo/696090/221 "2014-08-26T10:02:51Z")
> [@shijinn](#): > > what gets me is the righteous tone of the officer involved. he seemed to truly believe that zero tolerance to risk spiel shared by some posters in this thread. It’s rather easy for you to insist that _someone else_ should be completely comfortable and OK with the idea of potentially being murdered every time they clock in for work in the morning. But then I’m forgetting that the appropriate procedure for a policeman to follow when a threat presents itself is to run away, hide in his squad car, and call mommy to take care of the bad men for him. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 10:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-of-police-shooting-man-in-st-louis-near-ferguson-mo/696090/222 "2014-08-26T10:04:45Z")
> [@The\_Great\_Unwashed](#): > > You are so obviously wrong – the police aren’t smug and complacent trigger happy urban cowboys – the police are HEROS don’t you know, every single last one of them, ALL of the time! That dog was clearly trying to kill him by wagging its fucking tail in an aggressive manner, dog suicide by cop, stupid dog. You were expecting him to talk the dog down by reminding him of its family and its social obligations? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 11:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-of-police-shooting-man-in-st-louis-near-ferguson-mo/696090/223 "2014-08-26T11:05:35Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > But then I’m forgetting that the appropriate procedure for a policeman to follow when a threat presents itself is to run away, hide in his squad car, and call mommy to take care of the bad men for him. More of this straw man. As we’ve shown with links to stories about cops in other countries, there are other ways of dealing with a deranged, armed man besides shooting him that do not increase the risk to officers or bystanders. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Great\_Unwashed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_great_unwashed/32/4791_2.png) [@The\_Great\_Unwashed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Great_Unwashed)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-of-police-shooting-man-in-st-louis-near-ferguson-mo/696090/224 "2014-08-26T11:07:59Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > You were expecting him to talk the dog down by reminding him of its family and its social obligations? No, I was expecting him to behave like a man, and not some scared little boy with too much weaponry and not enough brain. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-of-police-shooting-man-in-st-louis-near-ferguson-mo/696090/225 "2014-08-26T11:10:37Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > More of this straw man. As we’ve shown with links to stories about cops in other countries, there are other ways of dealing with a deranged, armed man besides shooting him that do not increase the risk to officers or bystanders. More of this strawman. “Cops in other countries” don’t have to deal with a universally armed citizenry. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 11:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-of-police-shooting-man-in-st-louis-near-ferguson-mo/696090/226 "2014-08-26T11:12:31Z")
> [@The\_Great\_Unwashed](#): > > No, I was expecting him to behave like a man, and not some scared little boy with too much weaponry and not enough brain. So any cop who’s worried about being murdered in the line of duty just needs to “man up” instead of trying to defend himself? I’m sure the fact that he went out with his manhood intact will be of great comfort to his widow and his children who’ll have to grow up without a dad. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-of-police-shooting-man-in-st-louis-near-ferguson-mo/696090/227 "2014-08-26T11:27:21Z")
This world of murderous labradors you live in sounds terrifying. I’m glad I don’t live there. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-of-police-shooting-man-in-st-louis-near-ferguson-mo/696090/228 "2014-08-26T11:30:27Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > More of this strawman. “Cops in other countries” don’t have to deal with a universally armed citizenry. What’s the straw man? You do know what that phrase means, right? And you’re factually wrong here. Knives are just as common in other countries as they are here. Every household has a knife. Cops in the UK and Australia can deal with deranged, knife-armed dudes who act erratically and lunge at officers without shooting them. Are we just not as good at policing as those guys? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-of-police-shooting-man-in-st-louis-near-ferguson-mo/696090/229 "2014-08-26T11:36:11Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > And you’re factually wrong here. Knives are just as common in other countries as they are here. Every household has a knife. Cops in the UK and Australia can deal with deranged, knife-armed dudes who act erratically and lunge at officers without shooting them. Are we just not as good at policing as those guys? Our society gains nothing from suffering to live those who would lunge at policemen with knives. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-of-police-shooting-man-in-st-louis-near-ferguson-mo/696090/230 "2014-08-26T11:41:23Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Our society gains nothing from suffering to live those who would lunge at policemen with knives. Wow. What a terrible, evil sentiment. Killing the mentally ill has a long and ignoble history on earth. You should be ashamed of holding such a view. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-of-police-shooting-man-in-st-louis-near-ferguson-mo/696090/231 "2014-08-26T11:53:55Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Wow. What a terrible, evil sentiment. Killing the mentally ill has a long and ignoble history on earth. You should be ashamed of holding such a view. If someone lunges at me with a knife, do I not have the right, under common law and the laws of this country, to retaliate with any and all force necessary to protect my person? Why do you believe that law enforcement officials have less right to defend themselves from a knife-wielding madman than does a civilian? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Great\_Unwashed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_great_unwashed/32/4791_2.png) [@The\_Great\_Unwashed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Great_Unwashed)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-of-police-shooting-man-in-st-louis-near-ferguson-mo/696090/232 "2014-08-26T11:55:49Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Our society gains nothing from suffering to live those who would lunge at policemen with knives. Did this thread suddenly take a right turn? I thought this was about the appropriate rights of police officers under the threat of violence, stupid me, it turns out it’s about your estimation of who deserves to die or not. Hale Smapti, Glorious and Just Emperor, how we bow to your wisdom and moral insights, you laughable tiny little man. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Great\_Unwashed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_great_unwashed/32/4791_2.png) [@The\_Great\_Unwashed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Great_Unwashed)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-of-police-shooting-man-in-st-louis-near-ferguson-mo/696090/233 "2014-08-26T11:57:03Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > If someone lunges at me with a knife, do I not have the right, under common law and the laws of this country, to retaliate with any and all force necessary to protect my person? Not what you said, and it was only a couple of minutes ago. Forgot your meds? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-of-police-shooting-man-in-st-louis-near-ferguson-mo/696090/234 "2014-08-26T11:58:45Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > If someone lunges at me with a knife, do I not have the right, under common law and the laws of this country, to retaliate with any and all force necessary to protect my person? > > Why do you believe that law enforcement officials have less right to defend themselves from a knife-wielding madman than does a civilian? Law enforcement officials also have the responsibility to apprehend offenders with the minimum force necessary, while also minimizing risk to themselves and bystanders. As we’ve seen with the police forces in other countries, the minimum force necessary (while minimizing risk to themselves and bystanders) for a deranged knife-wielder is usually something other than shooting them. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-of-police-shooting-man-in-st-louis-near-ferguson-mo/696090/235 "2014-08-26T11:58:57Z")
> [@The\_Great\_Unwashed](#): > > Did this thread suddenly take a right turn? > > I thought this was about the appropriate rights of police officers under the threat of violence, stupid me, it turns out it’s about your estimation of who deserves to die or not. > > Hale Smapti, Glorious and Just Emperor, how we bow to your wisdom and moral insights, you laughable tiny little man. I don’t believe in monarchy. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-of-police-shooting-man-in-st-louis-near-ferguson-mo/696090/236 "2014-08-26T11:59:58Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Law enforcement officials also have the responsibility to apprehend offenders with the minimum force necessary, while also minimizing risk to themselves and bystanders. As we’ve seen with the police forces in other countries, the minimum force necessary (while minimizing risk to themselves and bystanders) for a deranged knife-wielder is usually something other than shooting them. So a cop has less right to defend his life than a civilian does. As long as we’ve established that that’s what you believe. ---
**Author:** ![LeaveMeAlone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c4cdca/32.png) [@LeaveMeAlone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LeaveMeAlone)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-of-police-shooting-man-in-st-louis-near-ferguson-mo/696090/237 "2014-08-26T12:02:19Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > More of this straw man. As we’ve shown with links to stories about cops in other countries, there are other ways of dealing with a deranged, armed man besides shooting him that do not increase the risk to officers or bystanders. Yeah, but it’s unlikely any of those “other” ways would have worked in this situation. The guy was less than 10 feet away walking towards the cops with a knife in hand. Unless you want the cop to disarm him with some kind of martial arts move…Yeah, if I have the guy contained somewhere or he is standing 30 feet away…yeah I’ll happily try to talk him down or taser him…but walking toward me with knife in hand…sorry bro…I’m going home tonight… I’ve been in these situations…real life ain’t like the movies… ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-of-police-shooting-man-in-st-louis-near-ferguson-mo/696090/238 "2014-08-26T12:03:22Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > So a cop has less right to defend his life than a civilian does. > > As long as we’ve established that that’s what you believe. No, cops have this right and also have additional responsibility. Responsibility doesn’t take away any rights. We’ve established that you believe our society should not ‘suffer to live’ some mentally ill people. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-of-police-shooting-man-in-st-louis-near-ferguson-mo/696090/239 "2014-08-26T12:04:37Z")
> [@LeaveMeAlone](#): > > Yeah, but it’s unlikely any of those “other” ways would have worked in this situation. The guy was less than 10 feet away walking towards the cops with a knife in hand. Unless you want the cop to disarm him with some kind of martial arts move…Yeah, if I have the guy contained somewhere or he is standing 30 feet away…yeah I’ll happily try to talk him down or taser him…but walking toward me with knife in hand…sorry bro…I’m going home tonight… > > I’ve been in these situations…real life ain’t like the movies… The cops could have approached from farther away. They could have waited in their cars for backup. There were many options once police were called. Once they arrive, and park very close to the suspect, and get out with guns raised, they suddenly have much fewer options. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-of-police-shooting-man-in-st-louis-near-ferguson-mo/696090/240 "2014-08-26T12:09:07Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > As we’ve seen with the police forces in other countries, the minimum force necessary (while minimizing risk to themselves and bystanders) for a deranged knife-wielder is usually something other than shooting them. There are 300 million people in this country, do you think this guy was the only knife wielding maniac the police dealt with all week? Our police “usually” do something other than shooting, too. Most officers go their entire careers without shooting at someone. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-of-police-shooting-man-in-st-louis-near-ferguson-mo/696090.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-of-police-shooting-man-in-st-louis-near-ferguson-mo/696090.md?page=13)