# Video of police shooting man in St. Louis (near Ferguson, MO) **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 21, 2014, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-of-police-shooting-man-in-st-louis-near-ferguson-mo/696090 "2014-08-21T14:13:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-of-police-shooting-man-in-st-louis-near-ferguson-mo/696090/241 "2014-08-26T12:10:31Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > There are 300 million people in this country, do you think this guy was the only knife wielding maniac the police dealt with all week? Our police “usually” do something other than shooting, too. Most officers go their entire careers without shooting at someone. Good! Then perhaps the problem is only with a small percentage of our police forces. We should make that small percentage better, such that they have the training and resources to resolve situations like this one without killing the suspect. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-of-police-shooting-man-in-st-louis-near-ferguson-mo/696090/242 "2014-08-26T12:12:58Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > We’ve established that you believe our society should not ‘suffer to live’ some mentally ill people. Just the ones who try to assassinate government servants. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-of-police-shooting-man-in-st-louis-near-ferguson-mo/696090/243 "2014-08-26T12:15:01Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Just the ones who try to assassinate government servants. What a pathetic justification of a truly evil sentiment. ---
**Author:** ![LeaveMeAlone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c4cdca/32.png) [@LeaveMeAlone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LeaveMeAlone)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-of-police-shooting-man-in-st-louis-near-ferguson-mo/696090/244 "2014-08-26T12:16:32Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > The cops could have approached from farther away. They could have waited in their cars for backup. There were many options once police were called. Once they arrive, and park very close to the suspect, and get out with guns raised, they suddenly have much fewer options. I’ll give you the not driving up on the guy…I had a similar situation last week…but we parked across the street and I was able to have my taser at the ready, but my partner still had his gun out in case the taser didn’t work…and sure as shit would have shot the guy if it failed. Thankfully, the guy complied and everything went fine. However, in the video above. you are assuming the cops would be able to spot the guy from far enough away, who knows maybe they rolled up and we’re like “oh crap, there he is” and didn’t have time…too many variables in these kinds of situations… ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-of-police-shooting-man-in-st-louis-near-ferguson-mo/696090/245 "2014-08-26T12:19:44Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > What a pathetic justification of a truly evil sentiment. “Evil” is a social fiction. But even presupposing its existence, there is nothing evil about killing a mentally ill person lunging at you with a knife, any more than putting down a rabid dog is evil. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-of-police-shooting-man-in-st-louis-near-ferguson-mo/696090/246 "2014-08-26T12:22:54Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > “Evil” is a social fiction. > > But even presupposing its existence, there is nothing evil about killing a mentally ill person lunging at you with a knife, any more than putting down a rabid dog is evil. Your assertion that society should not suffer some mentally ill people to live is what I called “evil”. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-of-police-shooting-man-in-st-louis-near-ferguson-mo/696090/247 "2014-08-26T12:25:17Z")
> [@LeaveMeAlone](#): > > I’ll give you the not driving up on the guy…I had a similar situation last week…but we parked across the street and I was able to have my taser at the ready, but my partner still had his gun out in case the taser didn’t work…and sure as shit would have shot the guy if it failed. Thankfully, the guy complied and everything went fine. However, in the video above. you are assuming the cops would be able to spot the guy from far enough away, who knows maybe they rolled up and we’re like “oh crap, there he is” and didn’t have time…too many variables in these kinds of situations… It was a clear day. Considering how quickly the officers arrived, I think it’s reasonable to consider that they could have seen him and approached from a bit farther away. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Great\_Unwashed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_great_unwashed/32/4791_2.png) [@The\_Great\_Unwashed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Great_Unwashed)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-of-police-shooting-man-in-st-louis-near-ferguson-mo/696090/248 "2014-08-26T12:25:47Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > “Evil” is a social fiction. > > But even presupposing its existence, there is nothing evil about killing a mentally ill person lunging at you with a knife, any more than putting down a rabid dog is evil. Rancid, fascist and sick sentiment, through and through. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-of-police-shooting-man-in-st-louis-near-ferguson-mo/696090/249 "2014-08-26T12:27:39Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Your assertion that society should not suffer some mentally ill people to live is what I called “evil”. What social obligation do we have towards people who attempt to murder police officers? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-of-police-shooting-man-in-st-louis-near-ferguson-mo/696090/250 "2014-08-26T12:28:39Z")
> [@The\_Great\_Unwashed](#): > > Rancid, fascist and sick sentiment, through and through. Same question as above. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-of-police-shooting-man-in-st-louis-near-ferguson-mo/696090/251 "2014-08-26T12:33:46Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > What social obligation do we have towards people who attempt to murder police officers? The same social obligation that we have to any mentally ill individual. To try and prevent them from harming themselves or others with the minimum necessary force. As we’ve seen from police actions in other countries, the minimum necessary force is usually not shooting them. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-of-police-shooting-man-in-st-louis-near-ferguson-mo/696090/252 "2014-08-26T12:34:46Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Same question as above. This question was answered, and your false assumption was corrected. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-of-police-shooting-man-in-st-louis-near-ferguson-mo/696090/253 "2014-08-26T12:47:04Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > The same social obligation that we have to any mentally ill individual. To try and prevent them from harming themselves or others with the minimum necessary force. As we’ve seen from police actions in other countries, the minimum necessary force is usually not shooting them. _Usually_. Meaning “typically but not always”. Meaning that you acknowledge that shooting them is sometimes the minimum necessary force. Glad to hear that we agree, then. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-of-police-shooting-man-in-st-louis-near-ferguson-mo/696090/254 "2014-08-26T12:50:32Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > _Usually_. > > Meaning “typically but not always”. > > Meaning that you acknowledge that shooting them is sometimes the minimum necessary force. > > Glad to hear that we agree, then. No we don’t, because in this case it likely was not the minimum necessary force. Further, we disagree on your statement that society should not suffer such mentally ill people to live. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-of-police-shooting-man-in-st-louis-near-ferguson-mo/696090/255 "2014-08-26T13:48:11Z")
The idea that someone being threatened with violence should have to make a calculation about what level of force is the “minimum necessary” is abhorrent, and has lead to a significant amount of people here in the UK being imprisoned for defending themselves. If someone’s attacking you in such a way that they could kill or seriously injure you, lethal force is always acceptable in self defence, whether or not you’re a cop. That doesn’t mean it’s always necessary, or the best option, but someone using it doesn’t deserve criticism. Oh, and he never said we should suffer the mentally ill to live. Speaking of strawmen, that’s the biggest one in the thread so far. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-of-police-shooting-man-in-st-louis-near-ferguson-mo/696090/256 "2014-08-26T13:52:30Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Further, we disagree on your statement that society should not suffer such mentally ill people to live. It’s a good thing I never made such a statement, then; > [@Smapti](#): > > Our society gains nothing from suffering to live those who would lunge at policemen with knives. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-of-police-shooting-man-in-st-louis-near-ferguson-mo/696090/257 "2014-08-26T13:54:48Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Oh, and he never said we should suffer the mentally ill to live. Speaking of strawmen, that’s the biggest one in the thread so far. He said we should not suffer mentally ill people who lunge at the police to live. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Great\_Unwashed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_great_unwashed/32/4791_2.png) [@The\_Great\_Unwashed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Great_Unwashed)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-of-police-shooting-man-in-st-louis-near-ferguson-mo/696090/258 "2014-08-26T13:55:14Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > The idea that someone being threatened with violence should have to make a calculation about what level of force is the “minimum necessary” is abhorrent, and has lead to **a significant amount of people here in the UK being imprisoned for defending themselves**. (my bolding) Cite please, because I don’t believe that that is true (unless you have cases like that of Tony Martin in mind, which is nothing like the case here and he certainly deserved to go to jail). ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-of-police-shooting-man-in-st-louis-near-ferguson-mo/696090/259 "2014-08-26T13:55:50Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > It’s a good thing I never made such a statement, then; I said “such mentally ill people”, so that is in fact what you said. I didn’t say “all mentally ill people”. The word “such” specifies the ones we were talking about. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-of-police-shooting-man-in-st-louis-near-ferguson-mo/696090/260 "2014-08-26T13:59:03Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > If someone’s attacking you in such a way that they could kill or seriously injure you, lethal force is always acceptable in self defence, whether or not you’re a cop. That doesn’t mean it’s always necessary, or the best option, but someone using it doesn’t deserve criticism. In the case of this video (from the OP), the cops could have approached the situation differently – for example, as has been suggested, they could have parked farther away and maintained greater distance. I’m not saying the cops were monsters and should be locked up – I’m saying that there might have been a better way, and perhaps the cops weren’t trained for it. And it seems like this is a recurring problem – lots more unarmed/knife-armed people in the US get shot by police than in some other countries. I think we can do better here. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-of-police-shooting-man-in-st-louis-near-ferguson-mo/696090.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-of-police-shooting-man-in-st-louis-near-ferguson-mo/696090.md?page=14)