# Video shows police handcuffing 5-year-old **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 24, 2005, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-shows-police-handcuffing-5-year-old/300858 "2005-04-24T14:30:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![calm\_kiwi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc348/32.png) [@calm\_kiwi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/calm_kiwi)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2005, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-shows-police-handcuffing-5-year-old/300858/121 "2005-04-25T14:52:30Z")
> [@PatriotX](#): > > It was a smart move to video tape the affair. > > I think everyone who has to deal with kids should be trained in teh methods of large-animal trainers. If they can train a bear to ride a bicycle… Yes it was a smart move BUT I still think the poice have NO place around a 5 year old at school. ANY traning would tell you that!. Obviously the woman in the video did her best but how it esculated to that point I can’t see. ---
**Author:** ![kka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/54ee81/32.png) [@kka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kka)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2005, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-shows-police-handcuffing-5-year-old/300858/122 "2005-04-25T14:54:54Z")
The girl was totally out of control. The school isn’t allowed to touch her, so they are in a no-win situation. By calling the police, they had a third party come in - which I see as one of the only viable options. Why didn’t the mother or fathe rget to the school more quickly? ---
**Author:** ![Diane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2acd7d/32.png) [@Diane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diane)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2005, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-shows-police-handcuffing-5-year-old/300858/123 "2005-04-25T14:58:02Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > I didn’t see **holmes** offer a diagnosis. He just said it was irrational and ignorant to start heaping contempt upon the child, and it is. Even if the child was “spoiled,” it’s still not the kid’s fault. All five year olds are innocent. There is no such thing as a guilty one. There is no such thing as a bad one. Getting angry at the child is misplaced and immature no matter what the circumstances. As a parent, you should know that most five year olds know right from wrong unless they have an emotional or mental disorder or have never been taught by a parent. You don’t agree with me, fine, but it doesn’t negate my opinion that in most cases five years old is old enough to know how to behave and to understand that there will be consequences when they don’t. I don’t think you give children enough credit for havng the capability to understand that. Before you toss out accusations, I am not talking about hitting or arresting the kid, just the understanding that there will be a result for certain actions. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2005, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-shows-police-handcuffing-5-year-old/300858/124 "2005-04-25T15:00:24Z")
> [@Tigers2B1](#): > > Maybe a time out. uummm? You must be an absolute fucking idiot. Why would you think that a time-out would work? Smelly dumbass. That pointed out, the girl’s demeanor changed remarkably upon catching sight of the police. The police did not ask/tell the girl to come with them. Perhaps if they had told her to come along, she would have complied. Before they resorted to handcuffs, I think they should’ve given her a chance to come along peaceably. The cuffs only serve to prevent her fromhurting herself through resistance. However, it’s not clear that she would’ve resisted the officers attempts to get her into the cruiser. ---
**Author:** ![Tigers2B1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc29f/32.png) [@Tigers2B1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tigers2B1)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2005, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-shows-police-handcuffing-5-year-old/300858/125 "2005-04-25T15:02:13Z")
> [@PatriotX](#): > > You must be an absolute fucking idiot. Why would you think that a time-out would work? Smelly dumbass. > > That pointed out, the girl’s demeanor changed remarkably upon catching sight of the police. The police did not ask/tell the girl to come with them. Perhaps if they had told her to come along, she would have complied. Before they resorted to handcuffs, I think they should’ve given her a chance to come along peaceably. The cuffs only serve to prevent her fromhurting herself through resistance. However, it’s not clear that she would’ve resisted the officers attempts to get her into the cruiser. You’re the fucking idiot **Patriot X** - it was a joke dumbass. Christ – ya :wally ---
**Author:** ![kka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/54ee81/32.png) [@kka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kka)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2005, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-shows-police-handcuffing-5-year-old/300858/126 "2005-04-25T15:03:12Z")
From [St. Petersburg Times](http://www.sptimes.com/2005/04/22/news_pf/Southpinellas/Video_shows_police_ha.shtml) The two educators “can’t control what the children do, but they can control how they respond to it and, to me, they responded admirably,” said Robert Egley, an assistant education professor at USF in St. Petersburg. **"I give them an A plus."** ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2005, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-shows-police-handcuffing-5-year-old/300858/127 "2005-04-25T15:04:38Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > So what did you mean when you said you wanted to “hurt” this “vile little idiot?” Is that an expression of affection and understanding that I’m not familiar with? Your Arrogant Asshole Offend-O-Tron is always redlined, isn’t it? Diogenes the Guardian of Proper Thought and Action. Unfortunately, you’re not only an idiot, you’re a fucking liar. Let’s review. > [@Ogre](#): > > I could never be a public school teacher. I’d end up either hurting a vile little idiot like that kid or having a stroke. Any reasonable person could see that I never said that I wanted to hurt the child. What I said was a roundabout way to say that I do not have the temperament to teach children. See, the more advanced readers among us would have glommed on to the “…or having a stroke” part as a clue that perhaps the entire thing was hyperbole. I doubt that I would _literally_ stroke out in front of a classroom of misbehaving little angels and end up a twitching vegetable. > [@DtC](#): > > So what did you mean when you said you wanted to “hurt” this “vile little idiot?” Note that the word “wanted” is entirely a prevarication created by you, and attributed to me. You dishonest, lying bastard. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2005, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-shows-police-handcuffing-5-year-old/300858/128 "2005-04-25T15:06:17Z")
> [@Lissa](#): > > You realize that every child is not the same, don’t you? What worked for you and Aaron may not work for others. (And in this case, I’d lay money it wouldn’t work.) It wouldn’t work now. It’s too late. > [@](#): > > Hitting a disturbed child can backfire. If they have emotional/mental problems, the “lesson” may not be learned. Some kids have an extremely difficult time grasping cause-and-effect. She may not see it as, “I’m getting spanked for doing \_\_\_\_\_\_\_”, she may see it as, “Mommy’s hitting me! Mommy is just a mean bitch.” If she knows that Mommy is a mean bitch and she knows what’s coming she learns both discipline to avoid punishment and subservience. As she gets older she gets weaned off the punishment, but the memory is always there. It’s a time-honored way of raising children and the model is not invalidated just because nowadays we have to coddle children and protect them from all evil. Nope. I want someone to pick a fight with my son. Fighting in school is another time-honored tradition. It is part of what I consider to be the essence of social interaction, where kids are exposed in a controlled environment to real life, little by little, rather than protected from it. > [@](#): > > For all you know the mother _has_ been spanking this child and this is the result. There is that possibility, but the odds are that the mother (and father, where is he in all this?) was too permissive and lost control, and is now getting slapped around by her child. > [@](#): > > I still see no reason whatsoever to ever strike a child. My parents raised me without hitting me. My brother-in-law never strikes his children and they are _astonishingly_ well-behaved. Good for you. We have a difference of opinion then. > [@](#): > > There are other, more effective means of discipline. Like what? Teach me. Seriously. If you have a better idea I’m more than open to it. Aaron’s getting to the age where it stops being a joke, where a slap starts a fight (he’s almost 3). > [@](#): > > You can’t spank an emotional/mental problem out of a child. Believe it or not, there are some valid medical conditions which require medication for the child to function normally. I agree wholeheartedly that it’s over-used, but this may be one of those cases where it’s necessary. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with giving medicine to a person who needs it. > > I think a child psychologist should make that call. I agree. But I also think that children should be given drugs in VERY rare cases. Just because a kid is wound up is not justification for Ritalin or any of the other BS. Anti-depressants for teenagers? They’re teenagers. Depression is part of the deal. They don’t need drugs for that. They need to live through it. Prescribed drug use among children, if you ask me, is way too high. Still, there’s one fringe benefit for some of you parents out there. Ritalin, among other drugs, is a lifetime disqualification from the military. So hey, if you want to ensure that they never have to go, or moreover that they never have the choice, drug your kids into oblivion. They may love you, they may hate you, but at least you never have to worry about those rotten recruiters who might give the child the discipline that they are lacking. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2005, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-shows-police-handcuffing-5-year-old/300858/129 "2005-04-25T15:11:16Z")
> [@Ogre](#): > > Your Arrogant Asshole Offend-O-Tron is always redlined, isn’t it? Diogenes the Guardian of Proper Thought and Action. > > Unfortunately, you’re not only an idiot, you’re a fucking liar. Let’s review. > > Any reasonable person could see that I never said that I wanted to hurt the child. What I said was a roundabout way to say that I do not have the temperament to teach children. > > See, the more advanced readers among us would have glommed on to the “…or having a stroke” part as a clue that perhaps the entire thing was hyperbole. I doubt that I would _literally_ stroke out in front of a classroom of misbehaving little angels and end up a twitching vegetable. > > Note that the word “wanted” is entirely a prevarication created by you, and attributed to me. > > You dishonest, lying bastard. I fail to see any difference between saying you “would” hurt a five year old or that you would “want” to. The fact that you would express any anger or hostility at all towards a five year old makes you a hateful moron who said you were at least _willing_ to hurt a five year old so your charges of “dishonesty” on my part ring rather hollow. If you don’t want to be upbraided for expressing a willingness to hurt children then maybe you should keep those thoughts to yourself from now on. ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2005, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-shows-police-handcuffing-5-year-old/300858/130 "2005-04-25T15:11:45Z")
**Airman** , I agree that drugs for kids are getting out of hand, but this child is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay beyond a simple spanking, time out, sent to room without supper, or any other punishment. ---
**Author:** ![Tigers2B1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc29f/32.png) [@Tigers2B1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tigers2B1)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2005, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-shows-police-handcuffing-5-year-old/300858/131 "2005-04-25T15:14:27Z")
> [@Harborwolf](#): > > **Airman** , I agree that drugs for kids are getting out of hand, but this child is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay beyond a simple spanking, time out, sent to room without supper, or any other punishment. The problem with drugs is mommy. She might not be concerneed enough. Until its clear what’s going on with this kid — I can’t agree that spanking is going to solve the problem. It’s the fact that mommy’s attitude is _‘I’ll sue the school district’_ - after not getting there for an hour and a half - is what smacks my a## the wrong way - ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2005, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-shows-police-handcuffing-5-year-old/300858/132 "2005-04-25T15:14:29Z")
> [@Tigers2B1](#): > > You’re the fucking idiot **Patriot X** - it was a joke dumbass. Christ – ya :wally You smell real bad. Your momma dresses you all funny. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2005, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-shows-police-handcuffing-5-year-old/300858/133 "2005-04-25T15:15:13Z")
I agree. It’s too late for her. The only discipline she will get if she doesn’t get it together in the next 13 years will be from a prison guard. Sad. ---
**Author:** ![Diane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2acd7d/32.png) [@Diane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diane)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2005, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-shows-police-handcuffing-5-year-old/300858/134 "2005-04-25T15:15:23Z")
> [@calm kiwi](#): > > Yes it was a smart move BUT I still think the poice have NO place around a 5 year old at school. > > ANY traning would tell you that!. Obviously the woman in the video did her best but how it esculated to that point I can’t see. As a parent (my kids are older now), I would expect the school to do whatever it needed to do to fix the problem and get on with doing what is supposed to be doing - teaching my kid. The mother wouldn’t come. The kid was out of control. If it takes the cops to handle it, so be it. They certainly didn’t throw her down and beat her ala Rodney King style. Hopefully it will put enough of an impression on her that that sort of behavior (destruction of other peoples property and hitting another person) is unacceptable and has consequences. Now is the time to get a handle on her bad behavior (assuming it is nothing mental) before it gets worse and we are all here a few years from now bitching about the out of control teen that should have been disciplined years ago. Her mother should be thanking them for doing a job in which she is lacking (yeah, I am making assumptions). When my oldest son played with matches when he was 5 years old, I marched him to the fire department and let him have a long, stern chat with the fire chief and have a good look at burn photos. Worked wonders. ---
**Author:** ![Daisy\_Mae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/46a35a/32.png) [@Daisy\_Mae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daisy_Mae)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2005, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-shows-police-handcuffing-5-year-old/300858/135 "2005-04-25T15:15:29Z")
> [@calm kiwi](#): > > Yes it was a smart move BUT I still think the poice have NO place around a 5 year old at school. > > ANY traning would tell you that!. Obviously the woman in the video did her best but how it esculated to that point I can’t see. Finally, someone who has all of the answers! /end sarcasm So in your esteemed opinion, what _exactly_ should they have done? They tried to call her mother who refused to come. They tried telling her no, tried to have her sit down, removed all of the kids who _do_ know how to control themselves, tried reinforcing her good behavior choices, tried explaining why what she was doing was wrong, moved her to a room where she had less room to be destructive, tried to block her way from ripping said room to pieces, fended off her repeated physical attacks, protected her from herself when she decided to hop around on a tabletop, and spent WAYYYYYY too much of their time ignoring children who were trying to learn while playing goalie to this little “angel.” It has already been established they are NOT allowed to touch her unless preventing her from harming herself. Exactly WHAT do you think they should have done? Should they have had to stay there with her letting her rip up the room until the Mother of the Year arrived? What if this was happening at 11am and her mother couldn’t be there until 3:30pm? As for all five year olds being innocent? WTF? Ohh puhhhleeeze. I guess six must be the magical age where kids can go from innocent to bad. Just ask the [parent of the dead six year old in Michigan](http://archives.cnn.com/2000/US/02/29/school.shooting.03/) whose child was shot by a fellow 1st grader. ---
**Author:** ![Wile\_E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c37758/32.png) [@Wile\_E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wile_E)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2005, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-shows-police-handcuffing-5-year-old/300858/136 "2005-04-25T15:15:39Z")
I called the kid a brat, I call lots of kids brats when they act like brats. So that got me labeled as someone who has contempt for a 5 year old child I don’t know and thinks violence should be committed against her? Never have I heard the interpretation of “brat” to mean “a child I hate”. I don’t think calling the behavior of the child on the video bratty equates to “I hate that child, someone should beat the ever-loving stuffing out of her.” Yeah, she probably needed/needs a spanking at some point in her life, but that is not the same as advocating beatings. It’s very aggravating when certain posters take a word and change it’s meaning and take statements out of context and twist the original posters intent so they can act morally superior to everyone else. Yeah, maybe since you’re so perfect and know it all, you’d have done it differently and saved the day but it’s more likely you’d just get your ass sued too, just for touching the child. ---
**Author:** ![calm\_kiwi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc348/32.png) [@calm\_kiwi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/calm_kiwi)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2005, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-shows-police-handcuffing-5-year-old/300858/137 "2005-04-25T15:15:42Z")
> [@Diane](#): > > As a parent, you should know that most five year olds know right from wrong unless they have an emotional or mental disorder or have never been taught by a parent. You don’t agree with me, fine, but it doesn’t negate my opinion that in most cases five years old is old enough to know how to behave and to understand that there will be consequences when they don’t. I don’t think you give children enough credit for havng the capability to understand that. I agree. This child acted well beyond the normal 5 year old level of behaviour. However I find it hard to see how anyone experienced with children could have let her behaviour escalate to the point where police were required. This was a five year old! ---
**Author:** ![Tigers2B1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc29f/32.png) [@Tigers2B1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tigers2B1)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2005, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-shows-police-handcuffing-5-year-old/300858/138 "2005-04-25T15:17:23Z")
> [@PatriotX](#): > > You smell real bad. > Your momma dresses you all funny. Is your finger stuck in your ass again Patriot? ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2005, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-shows-police-handcuffing-5-year-old/300858/139 "2005-04-25T15:17:31Z")
> [@Tigers2B1](#): > > … is what smacks my a## the wrong way - Tell us about how to smack your ass the _right_ way. It might make for interesting and very marketable reading. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2005, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-shows-police-handcuffing-5-year-old/300858/140 "2005-04-25T15:17:46Z")
> [@Diane](#): > > As a parent, you should know that most five year olds know right from wrong unless they have an emotional or mental disorder or have never been taught by a parent. You don’t agree with me, fine, but it doesn’t negate my opinion that in most cases five years old is old enough to know how to behave and to understand that there will be consequences when they don’t. I don’t think you give children enough credit for havng the capability to understand that. > > Before you toss out accusations, I am not talking about hitting or arresting the kid, just the understanding that there will be a result for certain actions. Five year olds do _not_ know “right from wrong.” They know that different behaviors will bring different results but they don’t actually have a developed moral system. They are purely self-centered and result driven. They also quite often simply lack any cognitive tools or abilities to control their own emotions. Knowing that a behavior will bring negative consequences is not the same thing as knowing that it’s"wrong." [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-shows-police-handcuffing-5-year-old/300858.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-shows-police-handcuffing-5-year-old/300858.md?page=8)