# Video shows police handcuffing 5-year-old **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 24, 2005, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-shows-police-handcuffing-5-year-old/300858 "2005-04-24T14:30:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![calm\_kiwi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc348/32.png) [@calm\_kiwi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/calm_kiwi)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2005, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-shows-police-handcuffing-5-year-old/300858/161 "2005-04-25T16:00:58Z")
> [@Diane](#): > > As a mother, I would have been to that school so fast and ready to dole out a spanking your head woulda spun. > > Except the stink didn’t grow smaller, did it? Stinks like cameras and police and attention? That is one little demon on a road to ruin. The road has just been hastened because of her new reputation. ---
**Author:** ![BiblioCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ed8c4c/32.png) [@BiblioCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BiblioCat)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2005, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-shows-police-handcuffing-5-year-old/300858/162 "2005-04-25T16:03:40Z")
> [@calm kiwi](#): > > Hello?? IT IS A SCHOOL! > > Schools generaly contain people trained in child behaviour. The police? Not so much. And what do they do when they **can’t touch** the child and the mother has no intention of coming for a couple of hours? The mother “reminded” them when they called her that they weren’t to touch her child at all. The cops have no such restrictions; if they saw she was out of control, it was within their rights to restrain her. It’s not like they threw her down and knelt on her back and hog-tied her, like they do on the TV show _Cops._ They were trying to be gentle, and she flung herself around. ---
**Author:** ![calm\_kiwi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc348/32.png) [@calm\_kiwi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/calm_kiwi)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2005, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-shows-police-handcuffing-5-year-old/300858/163 "2005-04-25T16:08:31Z")
> [@Wallet](#): > > I’ve taught Kindergarten for 17 years, so I think I have a little bit of experience dealing with this age group. > > I’m sorry to give my opinion, but here in the States it’s common for the media to blame teachers first whenever there are problems at school. I think the two educators videotaped acted with remarkable restraint, given the volitile situation. > In my inner-city school district, we are _not_ allowed to touch a child - even a tap on the shoulder could be grounds for being brought up on corporal punishment charges. > > Over the years I’ve had my share of violent 5 year olds. It’s not as common now, but when crack was prevalent our “crack babies” (children born addicted to crack) were terrors. They literally had the strength of 10, and would hurl entire desks at the other children. I’ve had children (themselves abused) attempt to sodomize others in the classroom. One child carved a make-shift knife from a broken part of his chair, and stabbed another child. I’ve been scratched, bitten, and hit by flying chairs over the years. > Is this the exception rather the rule? Of course. I love all of my kids, and the majority are wonderful. However, some of you seem to be living in a daydream world where every child comes from a nurturing and loving home. Sadly, this isn’t always the case. > > Teaching - it’s not a job for sissies. 🙂 I can’t even begin to compare my experience with crack babies. I can’t say that makes me sad. Crack babies aside can you honestly tell me that you couldn’t calm a 5 year old WEL before it got to the police stage? I agree the teacher in the clip I saw was a trooper! She did an amazing job. I still think handcuffing a 5 year old at school is Fascism-visiting-day. ---
**Author:** ![calm\_kiwi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc348/32.png) [@calm\_kiwi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/calm_kiwi)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2005, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-shows-police-handcuffing-5-year-old/300858/164 "2005-04-25T16:11:19Z")
> [@BiblioCat](#): > > And what do they do when they **can’t touch** the child and the mother has no intention of coming for a couple of hours? The mother “reminded” them when they called her that they weren’t to touch her child at all. The cops have no such restrictions; if they saw she was out of control, it was within their rights to restrain her. It’s not like they threw her down and knelt on her back and hog-tied her, like they do on the TV show _Cops._ They were trying to be gentle, and she flung herself around. Ok I’m on a whole other planet but I can’t see how anything she did required the police. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2005, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-shows-police-handcuffing-5-year-old/300858/165 "2005-04-25T16:12:32Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Sigh. Police put people in handcuffs to prevent from harming the cops, others or themselves. This kid was spazzed out and if you don’t think that you can’t be hurt by a 5 year old just because you’re bigger, think again. The footage shows a remarkable change in demeanor upon catching sight of the officers. I maintain that it may have been possible that she would’ve accompanied the officers without the use of handcuffs. Such a possibility was not explored. It seems to me as an ignorant bystander that this possibility should’ve been examined before putting handcuffs on a child. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2005, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-shows-police-handcuffing-5-year-old/300858/166 "2005-04-25T16:15:04Z")
When I was working in a daycamp with inner-city kids, we had a little more leeway than this teacher seemed to; if they did not obey an order to take a “timeout,” we were able to enforce them by taking the child under a tree or on the bus, and forcibly restraining them on our laps. They only had to sit still for a minute or two, but often getting them to do that took much, much longer. Many of these kids had never been disciplined in their lives, and it showed. I’d sit and hold them still, and they’d kick and wrestle and punch and scratch and bite while I told them I loved them but that they must obey. These epic struggles could last 20 minutes or a half hour before the child finally realized he wasn’t going to get his way, or before they were just too exhausted to carry on. I must have gone through this 200 times, but almost never with the same child. And what I find most revealing of all is what happened after an hour of fighting me to see how much I was willing to put up with, and after they finally sat still for sixty seconds and I told them they were now free to go: almost without exception, every single child would ask if they could please stay sitting in my lap for a while. A few even said “thank you” or “I love you, too, Mr. Eric.” YMMV ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2005, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-shows-police-handcuffing-5-year-old/300858/167 "2005-04-25T16:23:57Z")
First of all, this is a child. Five year olds cannot be held responsible for their acts. The experience of being handcuffed could not have been a positive experience for her. She obviously has a behavior problem and her mother should be seeking medical and/or psychological help for her. So let’s feel compassion for the child rather than anger. Since she was not about to settle down, she needed to be removed from class so that the other kids who weren’t acting up could get on with their business. I don’t see any gratuitous force being used on the child and they did give her every chance to settle down, but in my opinion they could have simply removed her from the classroom and found a place for her to calm down until her mother got there. A reasonably fit adult can carry even a kicking and screaming child under his arm to a place to settle down. I don’t quite see the need for cuffs for someone this size and age. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2005, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-shows-police-handcuffing-5-year-old/300858/168 "2005-04-25T16:27:04Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > First of all, this is a child. Five year olds cannot be held responsible for their acts. At what age would you commence teaching that actions have consequences? > [@](#): > > The experience of being handcuffed could not have been a positive experience for her. Define “positive.” Fun? No. Salutory? Quite possibly. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2005, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-shows-police-handcuffing-5-year-old/300858/169 "2005-04-25T16:28:46Z")
> [@PatriotX](#): > > The footage shows a remarkable change in demeanor upon catching sight of the officers. I maintain that it may have been possible that she would’ve accompanied the officers without the use of handcuffs. Such a possibility was not explored. > It seems to me as an ignorant bystander that this possibility should’ve been examined before putting handcuffs on a child. That’s exactly what I saw as well. The kid shut up and sat down quickly when people with authority that she recognised came into the room. The teacher didn’t come across as being very assertive at all. You don’t need to smack a kid to make them respect you. Tone and assertiveness goes a long way. The teacher didn’t IMO have either. I didn’t see any necessity at all for handcuffing the child **when** they did other than stupid ‘more than my job’s worth’ procedure following. ---
**Author:** ![calm\_kiwi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc348/32.png) [@calm\_kiwi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/calm_kiwi)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2005, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-shows-police-handcuffing-5-year-old/300858/170 "2005-04-25T16:30:33Z")
> [@furt](#): > > At what age would you commence teaching that actions have consequences? > > Define “positive.” Fun? No. Salutory? Quite possibly. So this was a learning experience? Wow, way to remind me I’m glad I live here not there. ---
**Author:** ![holmes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e95f7d/32.png) [@holmes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/holmes)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2005, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-shows-police-handcuffing-5-year-old/300858/171 "2005-04-25T16:33:26Z")
Another part of this is age. Just because she’s 5 or 6 chronologically, doesn’t mean she’s that age emotionally. One of the things we noticed when we had kids, was that they were usually younger emotionally than they should have been. Many 7/8 year olds, were on the emotional level of a 3 or 4 year old and you had to remind yourself that you were trying to reason with a 3 year old despite their ‘real’ age. So they would shift from responding like an 8 year old to that of a 3 year old and back again. They could make the decision to decide what clothes they want to wear, sress themselves and get ready to go out; then throw a tantrum because they didn’t get the color they wanted in Ants in Pants. Just my experience. YMMV, of course. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2005, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-shows-police-handcuffing-5-year-old/300858/172 "2005-04-25T16:34:14Z")
> [@furt](#): > > At what age would you commence teaching that actions have consequences? > > Define “positive.” Fun? No. Salutory? Quite possibly. You can teach that actions have consequences at any age, but legally a five year old has no responsibility for her actions. A positive experience would be something that she learns from without humiliation. For the rest of her school years she’s going to be known as the girl that got cuffed in class. It just seems that carrying her out kicking and screaming and taken to a quiet place would have been more appropriate. The officers could have stood by in the quiet place and kept her from hurting others or herself until her mother got there. If she really needed restraints after being removed from class, then so be it. But at least it wouldn’t be done in front of an audience. ---
**Author:** ![calm\_kiwi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc348/32.png) [@calm\_kiwi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/calm_kiwi)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2005, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-shows-police-handcuffing-5-year-old/300858/173 "2005-04-25T16:34:39Z")
> [@yojimbo](#): > > That’s exactly what I saw as well. The kid shut up and sat down quickly when people with authority that she recognised came into the room. The teacher didn’t come across as being very assertive at all. You don’t need to smack a kid to make them respect you. Tone and assertiveness goes a long way. The teacher didn’t IMO have either. > > I didn’t see any necessity at all for handcuffing the child **when** they did other than stupid ‘more than my job’s worth’ procedure following. EXACTLY. The teacher performed “well” in front of the camera. I’m sure she has dealt with the same kid with just a tone of voice and a LOOK. No touching, no police. ---
**Author:** ![Diane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2acd7d/32.png) [@Diane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diane)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2005, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-shows-police-handcuffing-5-year-old/300858/174 "2005-04-25T16:34:42Z")
> [@calm kiwi](#): > > The alternative being calling the cops on a five year old? Damn yeah. It is this attitude that contributes to spoiled, coddled, unmanageble kids. I firmly believe that you turn all control over to a kid when you allow them to continue their unacceptable behavior and show them that there is no consequences. What is so wrong with teaching a kid that facts of life in that destruction of property and assault of another person can result in a visit from the police? ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2005, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-shows-police-handcuffing-5-year-old/300858/175 "2005-04-25T16:35:36Z")
It was very much a learning experience. I’ll tell you one thing: if my sone ever acts like that they better slap the cuffs on him. If my son ever gets a DUI when he gets older he’s spending the night in the pokey. If my son ever assaults someone I’ll make sure he reports to the jail on time and ready to go. If he ever rapes someone I’ll take care of it myself. He will learn responsibility, one way or another. If that requires the memory of handcuffs, so be it. Better he learn it like that than with a long stay in a prison. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2005, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-shows-police-handcuffing-5-year-old/300858/176 "2005-04-25T16:36:54Z")
By the by it seems that a lot Americans are becoming used to this kind of treatment of children as IIRC there have been such threads in the past. If this happened in an Irish school there would be a massive outcry. Recently police have entered classrooms to take out some kids(17-19 IIRC). Immigrants who were to be sent back home as their visa/appeal process had run out. There was a lot of shit about police even entering classrooms. Politicians have been quick to lobby the head of the Police to ensure that such a incident would not happen again. My mother would have ended up in jail herself if any of her kids had been handcuffed at 5 years old (I know this coz I was just talking to her and mentioned this incident to her) ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2005, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-shows-police-handcuffing-5-year-old/300858/177 "2005-04-25T16:37:19Z")
> [@BiblioCat](#): > > And here in the US, kicking a child out of a regular school isn’t all that easy. There have to be meetings upon meetings with the parents, the principal, the teachers, counselors, members of the school board - with months of behavior problems documented, reported, and several rounds of “Well, let’s try this new approach” and “Maybe this other method will work” and “Now let’s try this other way.” > And then (here in Maryland, in my county, at least), the child is just transferred to a school for problem children. I’ll concur with this, from a Long Island, NY perspective. It worked to our advantage. In my situation, my son’s mother (we’re not together) was very adamant he stay in the public school. The selfish part of me knew he was much better off (long run) in public school, but I also knew that if I was the parent of his classmate, I would have wanted him out of the school. The fact that both parents and the child were attending regular counseling helped us considerably. Also, as the school year turned, and as the counseling started to ‘take’, my son gave the school far less cause for removal. ---
**Author:** ![ParentalAdvisory](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/53a042/32.png) [@ParentalAdvisory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParentalAdvisory)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2005, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-shows-police-handcuffing-5-year-old/300858/178 "2005-04-25T16:38:40Z")
> [@PatriotX](#): > > The footage shows a remarkable change in demeanor upon catching sight of the officers. Almost as if it was a conditioned response. ---
**Author:** ![lisacurl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/41988e/32.png) [@lisacurl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lisacurl)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2005, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-shows-police-handcuffing-5-year-old/300858/179 "2005-04-25T16:41:21Z")
The mother’s lawyer was on CNN this morning. He said that mother is a nursing assistant who could not leave her patients until someone arrived to cover for her. It seemed a reasonable explanation for the mother’s delay in arriving, depending on what her duties were. Even if she was an office worker, though, not everyone works for a sympathetic boss. I’ve seen people fired for having to constantly take off time to take care of their children. It happens often, especially in low-paying jobs. Much as I’d like to vilify the mother along with everyone else, _we don’t know the whole story here_. If the child is emotionally disturbed, the mother may very well be in denial about the severity of the situation. The child might not act out to this extent at home. My sister didn’t. It took two years of constant problems at school and my sister being threated with explusion at age six before my mom finally realized that there were some serious problems going on. She went through the whole persecution complex thing of certain people at the school being against my sister and all that. I didn’t appreciate the two comments in this thread wondering whether Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton had been called. This is pissing me off. Am I the only one who thinks that these police officers might have been a little less willing to handcuff a white child and put her into the back cage of a police cruiser? ---
**Author:** ![BiblioCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ed8c4c/32.png) [@BiblioCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BiblioCat)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2005, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-shows-police-handcuffing-5-year-old/300858/180 "2005-04-25T16:44:45Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > For the rest of her school years she’s going to be known as the girl that got cuffed in class. It just seems that carrying her out kicking and screaming and taken to a quiet place would have been more appropriate. The officers could have stood by in the quiet place and kept her from hurting others or herself until her mother got there. If she really needed restraints after being removed from class, then so be it. But at least it wouldn’t be done in front of an audience. She _was_ removed from the classroom; part of the videotape is taken in the principal’s office while she was on her little rampage. She was cuffed there, too. No other kids were around. The only reason her classmates will know about this is because of the mother suing the school and the media’s relentless playing of the tape on TV. I will agree that cuffing her was maybe a bit too much, but if she was still throwing punches at teachers and administrators and jumping on tables, then the cops had no choice. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-shows-police-handcuffing-5-year-old/300858.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-shows-police-handcuffing-5-year-old/300858.md?page=10)