# Video Surveillance during Gay Days at Disney **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 4, 2001, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-surveillance-during-gay-days-at-disney/67550 "2001-06-04T17:58:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2001, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-surveillance-during-gay-days-at-disney/67550/41 "2001-06-05T14:02:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Coldfire \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by AcidKid \* > > I’ve seen homos/queers/faggots in their natuarl habitat. > > It’s enough to set normal folks’ hair on end.\*\*[ > > “Natural Habitat”? Like what, the Serengeti? **Ikea.** 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2001, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-surveillance-during-gay-days-at-disney/67550/42 "2001-06-05T14:11:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by goboy \* > \*\*And, yes, they are Christian. “Christian” is not a synonym for “nice”; it’s a word with a specific meaning to denote a believer in Jesus Christ. \*\* Nope. They’re not. They may think they believe in Christ, but what they really believe in is a construct they’ve created that bears a superficial resemblance of Christ, while actually representing their own prejudices. > [@](#): > > \*\*I have no quarrel with individual Christians, many of whom are lovely people, but the fact remains that the Pharisees are in charge of the church. \*\* \ I have no problems with individual blacks, many of whom are lovely people…\ Do you see why people are accusing your of using the brush of hatred and bigotry? BTW: _Which_ ‘Church’ are you refering to? There are thousands of organized denominations, loose associations, and independant congregations that fall under the label ‘Christian’. Are you sugesting that they’re all corrupt? A large percentage? A few? Have you basis for your belief, or just a few (admitedly nasty) anecdotes? You’ve declared a belief system to a shelter for bigotry and hate: That’s a pretty broad brush. I think you’d be a damn-sight better off if you went and examined some of your own (apparent) prejudices. Afterwards, if you want to have a discussion on the morals and behaviors of indivdual bigots, or specific collections of bigots, we can talk. - Tranq, whom is Born Again, and (like most Christians) doesn’t hate gays/lesbians. ---
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2001, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-surveillance-during-gay-days-at-disney/67550/43 "2001-06-05T14:21:30Z")
> [@](#): > > I’ve seen homos/queers/faggots in their natuarl habitat. Welcome back to Mutual of Omaha’s _Wild Kingdom_. Today, we’ll be exploring the natural habitat of _Ursus Homosexualus crownus_, or the Gay Bear Top. Here’s my assistant Jim, and we’ll be following him into a bar called The Lure in just a few minutes. Well, somebody will be following him. I’ll be sitting safely in the truck like I always am, thank you very much. But first, Just as Jim will be strutting his stuff for the Bears in a minute, you can strut your stuff by investing in Mutual of Omaha’s life insurance plan. For just a few dollars per month, you’ll be strutting your protection _and_ watching your savings grow! Now let’s go back to Jim. He has a hard job today, because the Bears have an innate sense of potential mates called Gaydar. If Jim doesn’t behave himself just right, those bears will peg him for a poseur in a second! Let’s watch. As Jim approaches the first Bear, you’ll see that we have put a handkerchief in his pocket. This is to signal his interest. It’s in his right pocket to signify that he is submissive, and it is red because, uh. Wait. Red? Jim! Get out of there! Stop the cameras! Uh, we’ll be right back after a word from our sponsors. ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2001, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-surveillance-during-gay-days-at-disney/67550/44 "2001-06-05T14:31:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by yosemitebabe \* > \*\*Whoa! Way to go, me! I started a _Mahler_ hijack in this here thread! Who would have thought…? 😃 > > I will look up the song, Baker, and thanks! \*\* \>Cackle\< Only you, **Yosemite** , only you… hell of a nice segue, though. 😉 Cartooniverse ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2001, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-surveillance-during-gay-days-at-disney/67550/45 "2001-06-05T15:40:43Z")
[quote] \ I have no problems with individual blacks, many of whom are lovely people…\ Do you see why people are accusing your of using the brush of hatred and bigotry? BTW: Which ‘Church’ are you refering to? There are thousands of organized denominations, loose associations, and independant congregations that fall under the label ‘Christian’. Are you sugesting that they’re all corrupt? A large percentage? A few? Have you basis for your belief, or just a few (admitedly nasty) anecdotes? [/quote First, that’s a sloppy analogy. Black folks are not an organized group lobbying to enforce second class citizens, and Christians are not an ethnic group. Try again. Second, there are good, charitable folks in the Church (by which I mean Christian denominations), but they aren’t running the show. Some examples: The Southern Baptist convention has organized a boycott of Disney for pro-gay policies. Ex-gay groups founded by Evangelical Christians trying to get gay folks to “come out of homosexuality” The thousands of sermons preached by ministers that AIDS was God’s revenge on homosexuals The silence of churches on Matthew Shepard’s murder The active support of Christian groups to pass legislation denying equal protection for gays in several states, like Oregon and Colorado. Bigotry is unreasoning prejudice. I go by facts, and the facts are damning: while there are many Christians of good will who wish good things for gays, the leaders of the various denominations in the US overwhelmingly support anti-gay measures. ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2001, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-surveillance-during-gay-days-at-disney/67550/46 "2001-06-05T15:50:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by goboy \*\*\*First, that’s a sloppy analogy. Black folks are not an organized group lobbying to enforce second class citizens, and Christians are not an ethnic group. Try again. \*\* Not trying for an exact parallel, just trying to get the _tone_, which I think I hit pretty close. Needless to say, I’ve no support whatsoever for generic hatred and prejudice. _From any quarter_. Rather than hijack this further, I’ll just ask you to agree to disagree. ---
**Author:** ![Sauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@Sauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sauron)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2001, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-surveillance-during-gay-days-at-disney/67550/47 "2001-06-05T15:53:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by goboy \* > Second, there are good, charitable folks in the Church (by which I mean Christian denominations), but they aren’t running the show. > Some examples: > The Southern Baptist convention has organized a boycott of > Disney for pro-gay policies. Just to give you a real-world example of how well that “boycott” is working: I am a Southern Baptist. I’ve been a member of three churches in the past five years (due to moving) that were part of the Southern Baptist Convention. I know of absolutely no one who has cancelled plans to go to DisneyWorld, or stopped purchasing Disney products, based on the SBC boycott. In fact, four of the nine couples in my Bible study class have been to DisneyWorld in the past year, and my wife and I are planning to go next year. Don’t judge Christians (even Southern Baptists) by what a handful of leaders do. You wouldn’t automatically assume all Americans are like George W. Bush, would you? ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2001, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-surveillance-during-gay-days-at-disney/67550/48 "2001-06-05T15:56:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Nope. They’re not. They may think they believe in Christ, but what they really believe in is a construct they’ve created that bears a superficial resemblance of Christ, while actually representing their own prejudices. Have you heard of the True Scotsman fallacy? They go to church, they believe in Jesus, they’re Christians. You don’t get to say, “Well, no _true_ Christian acts like that.” You’re changing the definition to bolster your argument. > [@](#): > > Needless to say, I’ve no support whatsoever for generic hatred and prejudice. From any quarter. Rather than hijack this further, I’ll just ask you to agree to disagree. Easier to walk away than admit you’re wrong. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2001, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-surveillance-during-gay-days-at-disney/67550/49 "2001-06-05T16:00:47Z")
I never said the boycott worked, or that ALL Baptists felt obliged to obey. heck, you guys are a bunch of independent congregations, after all. But the Southern Baptist leadership DID declare a boycott, did they not? Would a gay couple be welcome in your church, honestly? ---
**Author:** ![Sauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@Sauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sauron)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2001, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-surveillance-during-gay-days-at-disney/67550/50 "2001-06-05T16:00:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by goboy \* > Have you heard of the True Scotsman fallacy? They go to church, they believe in Jesus, they’re Christians. You don’t get to say, “Well, no _true_ Christian acts like that.” > You’re changing the definition to bolster your argument. So can I say that all gay men dress outrageously, work as hairdressers and lisp? ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2001, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-surveillance-during-gay-days-at-disney/67550/51 "2001-06-05T16:02:19Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by **yosemitebabe** _ > > (By the way, have you seen “California Adventure” next to Disneyland? I was just there. It’s kinda small, but I liked it.) Then it would seem that you and I are the only two - it’s getting panned. But then, so did Epcot and Animal Kingdom when they opened, and they’re both great parks, too. Esprix ---
**Author:** ![Sauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@Sauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sauron)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2001, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-surveillance-during-gay-days-at-disney/67550/52 "2001-06-05T16:07:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by goboy \* > But the Southern Baptist leadership DID declare a boycott, did they not? Would a gay couple be welcome in your church, honestly? Yup. They declared a boycott. And as far as I can tell, it accomplished squat. Didn’t affect anyone I know (admittedly a small subset of the overall population). Honest answer to your other question: A gay couple would cause some consternation in my church, mainly among the older members (although I believe some would have no problem with it). I can tell you a gay couple would be welcome in my Bible study class. [sarcasm]Heck, we’ve even let Mexicans come in! (Only if they had some white blood, of course.) We’re quite the open-minded bigots.[/sarcasm] ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2001, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-surveillance-during-gay-days-at-disney/67550/53 "2001-06-05T16:13:05Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by **Sue Duhnym** _ > > I’ve been there and I don’t think it’s all that “gay”, it’s just the most club-like club there. But it is where the gay boys go. On usual nights it’s mixed, but the other bars are definitely for straight folks. Not to get too ghettoized (I don’t care for clubs much myself, unless I go with friends), but since it’s the most clubby, it’s where the gay boys go. Or maybe you just don’t notice these things like I do. 😉 > [@](#): > > At night you are carded to enter the area. I can’t recall if they let minors in, I thought not, but they’re definitely not allowed into the bars. Surprisingly I did see a very few kiddies walking around PI with their parents, but only on the streets outside, not in the clubs themselves. I thought that rather odd, especially since they card _everyone_ at the entrance to PI. > [@](#): > > I can’t understand why people would have a problem with some dirty dancing…ESPECIALLY after all good little kiddies are in bed. Exactly - PI is supposed to be for grown-ups, and partying grown-ups at that. As if this kind of stuff doesn’t happen at straight clubs? Please. The only people offended by it were the fundies videotaping it, who wouldn’t be there under normal circumstances anyway. Nobody who was there would give a flying frell. Esprix ---
**Author:** ![SisterCoyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@SisterCoyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SisterCoyote)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2001, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-surveillance-during-gay-days-at-disney/67550/54 "2001-06-05T16:17:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Esprix \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > _Originally posted by **yosemitebabe** _ > > > > (By the way, have you seen “California Adventure” next to Disneyland? I was just there. It’s kinda small, but I liked it.) > > Then it would seem that you and I are the only two - it’s getting panned. But then, so did Epcot and Animal Kingdom when they opened, and they’re both great parks, too. > > Esprix \*\* Make that three. I love it. (just took my roommate, who also enjoyed herself). Did you guys watch the parade? (I have to ask, my sibling is in it. 😉 Also, they’re bringing back the Electrical Parade at DCA this summer, too. ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2001, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-surveillance-during-gay-days-at-disney/67550/55 "2001-06-05T16:19:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by goboy \* > **Have you heard of the True Scotsman fallacy? They go to church, they believe in Jesus, they’re Christians. You don’t get to say, “Well, no _true_ Christian acts like that.” > You’re changing the definition to bolster your argument.** Nope, never heard of it, but I’ll look it up. I’ve been using my definition of ‘Christian’ for as long as I can remember: Saying I believe in something, say, Bhudda, but applying beliefs & prejudices counter to the teachings of Bhudda, doesn’t make me a Bhuddist, it makes me a hypocrite. I’ve found that most (but by no means all) fundies are either poorly informed, or outright hypocrites. > [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > \*\* > > Needless to say, I’ve no support whatsoever for generic hatred and prejudice. From any quarter. Rather than hijack this further, I’ll just ask you to agree to disagree. > > Easier to walk away than admit you’re wrong. \*\* Nope: Smart enough to try and walk away, realizing we have fundamentally (No pun intended) different world-views. I guess the answer on civil disagreement is ‘No’. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2001, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-surveillance-during-gay-days-at-disney/67550/56 "2001-06-05T16:24:18Z")
> [@](#): > > So can I say that all gay men dress outrageously, work as hairdressers and lisp? Some do, some don’t. I know masculine guys (like myself) who you would never guess are gay, and some who make Tinkerbell look butch, and many in between the two extremes. But the stereotyping of gays is not analogous to my characterization of Christian groups. I have said repeatedly that I am NOT talking about each and every Christian. This board, by its very nature, attracts folks who skew to the more informed and liberal side of the bell curve, so the majority of Christians on this board are going to tend to be more open-minded. But that has nothing to do with the fact that the leadership of most (but not all) Christian denominations in the US are anti-gay. ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2001, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-surveillance-during-gay-days-at-disney/67550/57 "2001-06-05T16:59:13Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by **dogsbody** _ > > Toads Wild Ride is still at Disneyland. Confirmed - it’s still at Disneyland (in Anaheim) but no longer at Disney World (in Orlando). However, park officials are talking about replacing Country Bear Playhouse in Critter Country with a Winnie-the-Pooh ride. Esprix ---
**Author:** ![Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helen_s_Eidolon)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2001, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-surveillance-during-gay-days-at-disney/67550/58 "2001-06-05T17:17:26Z")
> [@](#): > > Don’t judge Christians (even Southern Baptists) by what a handful of leaders do. You wouldn’t automatically assume all Americans are like George W. Bush, would you? Maybe I’m missing the point of what **goboy** was trying to say, but I think you guys are agreeing here. Or maybe it’s just me. If I could be so bold as to interpret what I thought **goboy** was saying (which is also what I think) is that Christians are A-OK, but the Church, the leadership, is intolerant towards gays, for the most part. What **goboy** said was: > [@](#): > > I have no quarrel with individual Christians, many of whom are lovely people, but the fact remains that the Pharisees are in charge of the church. which I think supports my view. Both of you agree that the leadership of the churches is intolerant, but not necessarily the Christians in them. Right? ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2001, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-surveillance-during-gay-days-at-disney/67550/59 "2001-06-05T17:31:30Z")
If I could be so bold as to interpret what I thought goboy was saying (which is also what I think) is that Christians are A-OK, but the Church, the leadership, is intolerant towards gays, for the most part. [/quote] Bingo! That’s exactly what I’ve been saying (although my posts have been crystal clear, the other posters have yet to grasp that point.) ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2001, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-surveillance-during-gay-days-at-disney/67550/60 "2001-06-05T17:58:34Z")
Change: ‘…intolerant towards gays, for the most part…’ to: ‘…intolerant towards gays, _all too often_…’, and we’ve got some agreement. > [@](#): > > …my posts have been crystal clear, the other posters have yet to grasp that point… NOW you’re clear. Thanks **LaurAnge**. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-surveillance-during-gay-days-at-disney/67550.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/video-surveillance-during-gay-days-at-disney/67550.md?page=4)