To put it more precisely, you are making lousy excuses, over and over, to avoid dealing with ideas that make you uncomfortable and to deflect whenever I point out that your responses are inadequate and fail to actually address the points I made.
Do you have an example of what you think he has failed to address? Because it seems like you and him(?) basically agree but are arguing over semantics.
It’s not unnatural to be annoyed when you’re told your voice has less importance in some spaces than others - even if it’s true (like a straight man being told to listen to gay people’s experiences when it comes to topics like gay marriage). But it seems so far that LHOD has agreed that the minority perspective should be given weight and listened to above the majority experience when it directly affects the minorit; but in aspects which would affect straight and gay people (abolishing government involvement in marriage), his opinion is not irrelevant.
If you (a white person) were in a store and a scene was created by a Black guy vocally objecting to being followed by store staff, what should your reaction be?
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"Harumph! Black guy thought he could get away with shoplifting, and now he’s playing the race card!
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“Tut-tut! What an obstreperous blackamoor! So long as he was law-abiding, he should have paid store staff no mind!”
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This store is run by assholes. I remember
A. Being harassed like that when I was a teenager
B. Being ordered to follow Black guys when I had a shit job at a store -
“Hmm, now I bear the bleak weight of white privilege. You there, clerk, I demand you follow me around too, to make this world more just and meet!”
None of the above?
You should read Black Like Me by John Howard Griffin, where a white guy darkens his skin to attempt to pass for black, then writes about his experience and the way he is treated differently.
And even though it was written in the 60’s, someone like you would probably be telling him that the “hate stares” the fearful clutching of the purse to the bosom, and general disrespect he noticed from white people were all in his head, and that they probably just wanted to ask for directions or some other BS.
Sometimes the awareness of white privilege can be helpful, for example when we are traveling and need to stop for a hotel, we always send the white one in to the front desk clerk, because we have a much better chance of getting rooms that way.
As an outside observer, mister nyx, just so you know, I’d say your behavior in this discussion does seem a bit off. Just because someone else isn’t talking about precisely the issues you want to discuss doesn’t mean that they’re trying to deflect attention or “shut you up.” You also accused Der Trihs of scheming in this way, and I assure you he wasn’t (and I can’t stand the guy).
Are you annoyed because **LHOD **isn’t breaking your posts into a dozen pieces and responding to each point separately? Because that’s the only way to address every point the other guy makes, and some of us just find that style annoying as hell.
The issue is WHY it’s being raised.
When the clerk follows me around I do think it is part of their job to look for shoplifters and they are there to make sure I don’t steal anything. It doesn’t bother me as that is their job. Should they ignore a person because that person is black so as not to offend them?
Ah, you think I think it is BS. Tell me where I’ve said it is BS?
Claiming that all whites are more privileged is a racist statement. It’s a generalization based on race.
No, IMO what you think is BS. You are thick with ideas and explanations concerning the experiences of others. It must be nice to have that detached overview and certainty about realities that will never hurt or touch you personally.
In some cases, this is true…it’s part of their job. In other cases…I’ve had a couple of bosses who had the notion that ALL blacks would steal if they had a chance. And the clerks were specifically instructed to watch and follow ALL black browsers, but the white ones only if we thought they were likely to shoplift.
I’ve seen instances go both ways. I’ve seen black people get treated exactly the same way white people were treated, and insist that it was racism. And I’ve seen racist behavior, and when called on it, the racist would insist that it’s not racism.
I’m a fairskinned brunette, with typically white features. I KNOW that I get treated differently than a black woman does, in some cases, just because of the color of our skins.
So are you saying niggers, wetbacks, sand monkeys, dot heads and such are underprivileged?
Wow. Interesting. Of course even more interesting will be how everyone will call me a racist while your “cracker” doesn’t so much as raise an eyebrow. Or did I miss it?
It occurs to me that those people that don’t spend so much time worrying about what people of other colors think of them actually do quite well in this land. I’ve often found Asians to be quite racist against whites and vice/versa but neither really cares because they just go out and are successful regardless. And besides it isn’t always true anyway. All whites aren’t privileged and some of us are actually just as prone to be watched more closely in the department store as any black. A black man or woman dressed nicely is less likely to be watched then say a homeless white person. Or a white person that looks thuggish, unkempt and such.
Just sayin.
[QUOTE=Scathach]
Do you have an example of what you think he has failed to address? Because it seems like you and him(?) basically agree but are arguing over semantics.
[/QUOTE]
Well, to bring it up yet again, I offered the silly solution to marriage equality that has been explained to me dozens of times by straight people. Go back to post #160. I pointed out a stupid thing straight people have “explained” to me dozens of times: the magical solution to achieving marriage equality is to “get the government out of marriage”. I agree that that would be the ideal situation, but that’s irrelevant – it’s a completely politically absurd route to achieving marriage equality, for reasons that should be obvious. But when I brought up that example, he made the same ridiculous argument that I had been trying to ridicule. And when I pointed out that he completely missed the obvious context, he whined and used that as a pretext to refuse to discuss anything any further. Because I broke his rules by pointing out that he completely ignored the context by arguing that it would be a great idea to get the government out of marriage.
[QUOTE=VarlosZ]
Are you annoyed because LHOD isn’t breaking your posts into a dozen pieces and responding to each point separately? Because that’s the only way to address every point the other guy makes, and some of us just find that style annoying as hell.
[/QUOTE]
I’m annoyed by him failing to respond to particular things I’ve said more than once, emphasized, and explained at length. He ignores them and I see no reason not to assume that it’s because he can’t respond to them.
No. It’s exactly equivalent to saying that members of racial minorities are subject to systematic racism. There is nothing racist about saying that, no matter how many people whine otherwise.
I will admit I’m more prone to be leery of people that act or look ghetto, have rebel flags on their trucks, look like tweekers (meth users), otherwise healthy looking people panhandling and I’m sure if I try i can come up with more examples.
I will also admit my being white has possibly afforded me more opportunities. But I have always been very conscience of how I appear. Even when I was quite unscrupulous. It’s easier to hustle people when you don’t look like or sound like a hustler.
The bottom line is that when people of any color present themselves as decent people both in appearance and speech they’re less likely to be viewed as someone that might rip you off. I’ve lived and worked in many places and do know many whites that are extremely racist with very ignorant beliefs (especially about blacks). I myself was raised by very racist parents. My mother used to tell me stories of the local concert venue and how I should stay away from the bathroom because “a nigger will be in there waiting to cut your penis off and put it in a jar”. That’s just one example. So most of my life I didn’t like or trust black people. having lived in the world now for many years I’ve found that there are people of every color that can’t be trusted.
Probably why I prefer dogs to people. Or should I just say: I’m not prejudiced. I hate you all the same.
If people were regularly suspected of being shoplifters because they were white you’d have a point, but they aren’t so you don’t.
That can only be the bottom line in a discussion about white privilege to someone who has absolutely no idea what is being discussed.
Imagine this scenario: you get a job and find out that everyone else with your exact same experience and qualifications makes 30% more than you, just because. You complain to your boss and he says, “Hey, don’t worry, I’ll give you some tips on how to save money, and then you won’t have a problem. Get a Costco membership, bundle your internet phone and cable, refinance your house. Also, I’m not saying you can’t get raises, and if you work way harder than the other guys then at some point you might even be able to make the same amount as them!” I guess you’d be okay with that, because working hard and being frugal are good things to do anyway?
And you are basing this assertion upon what? The opinion of the group who says they are being looked at, or the group who is doing the looking?
More “us versus them” bullshit. In this scenario, your boss is the one causing your problem, directly: he’s the one who is paying your coworkers 30% more for doing the same work as you. The random white guy with “white privilege” is the coworker, not your boss. Just because he’s not getting screwed does not mean it’s his fault that you are.