Vietnam era. Protestors spitting on soldiers. Myth vs reality+McGovern/Nixon

[The_Surb]

I most certainly did, all but the last paragraph

[Chefguy]

@Jackmannii

Hmm. Here’s an account of a support group for victims of alien abduction, which boasted 1,500 members.

By your standard of “valid evidence”, the claims of both the veteran spittees and the alien abductees are both valid. The reports from the alien abductees might even be said to be 1.5 times as valid as those of the veterans Bob Greene says he heard from.

Or we can recognize that unsupported anecdotes are a pitifully weak form of evidence.

NM

[Chefguy]

@spooje

Yeah, I just can’t get my head around it.

I, like most folks, have an instinct for self preservation.

Even If I hated troops returning from combat (which would be just stupid, BTW), I would certainly think twice before I spat upon someone who was *trained to kill *and may have done it recently. I would expect someone to open a can of whoop-ass. The idea that peace\love\hippie types would be so aggressive and military types would be so passive in the face of it…

Kent State is a perfect example of over-response to a stimulus when it comes to the military mindset.

[Jackmannii]

@Bricker

This comparison fails to recognize the dictum that “claims require proof, and the more extraordinary the claim, the more extraordinary the proof.”

Numerous posters have found the idea of large numbers of helpless veterans being spat upon by vengeful hippie protestors to be an extraordinary claim markedly lacking in even ordinary evidence (a view which happily you now appear to share).

Anecdotes by speeders carry believability since there’s lots of confirmatory evidence of speeding (i.e. speed detector readings and videos) that doesn’t rely on anecdotes by offenders.

If alien abductees make for an unreasonable example of how you can find thousands of testimonials for irrationally unlikely events, you might prefer antivaccination testimonials. There are many cases (in terms of raw numbers, not percentages) in which parents are convinced that their young children who were previously normal, showed signs of autism immediately upon receiving scheduled immunizations (flying in the face of abundant good evidence debunking such claims).

[Typo_Negative]

@Bricker

It is difficult for me to credit the certainty that no spitting incident ever happened anywhere. At the same time, given the lack of documented incidents, it’s difficult for me to believe it was anything approaching a widespread phenomenon.

I agree here, actually.

I am not saying it never happened. How could I know? But given the training and\or personalities of those on both sides, such events would have to be rare.

OK, now for the stupid question. Are you ready?

The soldiers being spat on story, did it come from from soldiers? Do we have a story, a first-hand account from an actual vet coming home and being spat upon by a hippie?

[Bricker]

@spooje

The soldiers being spat on story, did it come from from soldiers? Do we have a story, a first-hand account from an actual vet coming home and being spat upon by a hippie?

Maybe.

That is, we have a number of such claims made to the newspaper columnist who I referenced above. But all of them were self-reported – that is, I’m reasonably sure he accepted as true the statement, “I’m a returning veteran, and…” without seeking independent verification.

[Wendell_Wagner]

I have another way to check what went on. Suppose that there were a lot of people who spit on soldiers. Wouldn’t you expect at least one of them to decide, perhaps years later, that what he had done was wrong? Is there any case where someone has announced that he spit on a soldier and was now sorry about it?

[Gleena]

@Bricker

But in response to the speculation that spitting on a vet would have inspired a murderous response.

So?

FWIW, some probably were, but nowhere near in the numbers that people suggest. And in at least one case, the fight started from the other end.

[Sailboat]

@Colibri

(Later on, although I still opposed the war, I was turned off to demonstrations by the participation of some who expressed support for North Vietnam, a la Jane Fonda. While I didn’t think the US policy was right, the North Vietnamese were also assholes.)

Heh. The historical consensus seems to bear out what you thought as a 21-year-old. I just read a book by noted historian/conservative flack Victor Davis Hanson whose final chapter contains page after page of “I didn’t think the US policy was right, [but] the North Vietnamese were also assholes.”

@Colibri

a lying scumbag like Nixon contributed to my lasting cynicism about politics.

Now you’re two for two!

[Enuma_Elish]

@Chefguy

I don’t, and you have no reason to.

This is just an incredibly rude statement.

Please, Chefguy, enlighten us with your standards of proof.

If someone posts that they were spit on, would you accept this as proof? Would you call them a liar? Would you call them a liar because they didn’t have photo evidence?

If a tree falls in the forest but isn’t caught on camera I guess it really didn’t fall according to your standards.

[jlzania]

@Bricker

That’s a very facile analysis.

Some of those peace/love/hippie types were busy making and setting bombs.

And some of them would have loved to incite a brutal response in order to portray the baby-killers as out of control.

I would hardly call the Weather Underground 'peace/love/hippie types and when you conflate the two, you’re being more than a little disingenuous.
As a child of the era, I can assure you that your average ‘hippie’ (whoever that was and I’m not entirely sure there was such a creature as the average hippie)
had nominal interest in the politics of the day.

[Typo_Negative]

@Enuma_Elish

If someone posts that they were spit on, would you accept this as proof?

I don’t think any of us would accept a post as proof of anything.

[Czarcasm]

@Enuma_Elish

This is just an incredibly rude statement.

Please, Chefguy, enlighten us with your standards of proof.

If someone posts that they were spit on, would you accept this as proof? Would you call them a liar? Would you call them a liar because they didn’t have photo evidence?

If a tree falls in the forest but isn’t caught on camera I guess it really didn’t fall according to your standards.

Want me to provide photos of trees falling in forests? Hell, I can show you videos of trees falling in forests. If someone claims that trees fall in forests quite frequently, it is damn easy to find evidence of it.
If someone claims that returning Viet Nam vets were frequently spat upon by hippies, I would expect there to be photos and videos, because if the hippies were allowed to be there then it’s pretty damn obvious that the families were there too…with their cameras.