# "Vietnam Vet" Spits In Jane Fonda's Face **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 21, 2005, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vietnam-vet-spits-in-jane-fondas-face/300419 "2005-04-21T14:47:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![wolf\_meister](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf_meister/32/15202_2.png) [@wolf\_meister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolf_meister)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2005, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vietnam-vet-spits-in-jane-fondas-face/300419/61 "2005-04-22T15:01:14Z")
**ralp124c** and **gobear** Yes, this story did set off my “faker” alert too. That’s why I started this thread. If the Kansas City Star were doing its job, they’d investigate this guy’s military record. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2005, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vietnam-vet-spits-in-jane-fondas-face/300419/62 "2005-04-29T22:45:55Z")
So am I the only person who has flashbacks to the time that I pretended I was in Vietnam? I loathe Jane Fonda for many reasons and agree with pretty much everything negative about her in this thread. But I’m always amazed by how much veracity is given by people (not the ones on this board, who would be corrected in a Baltimore Minute, but who dwell in the land “East of Cecil”) to the grossly exaggerated UL accounts of her exploits. I visited the [National P.o.W. Museum](http://www.montezuma-ga.org/chamber/pow.html) at Andersonville several times while doing research (interesting museum if you’re ever anywhere near the area, incidentally- the site of the prison camp is just a hill with pines and a few monuments and no vestige whatever of the horror that took place there, but the museum is very worth a visit) and literally every single time I heard people who were old enough to know better recounting the same old tales of how she turned in the scraps of paper smuggled to her, laughed at p.o.w.s and other tales that stopped just short of her personally torturing American soldiers and feasting on their roasted orange glazed flesh and it was so irritating. What she did was bad enough, we don’t have to gild it… ---
**Author:** ![wolf\_meister](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf_meister/32/15202_2.png) [@wolf\_meister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolf_meister)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2005, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vietnam-vet-spits-in-jane-fondas-face/300419/63 "2005-04-30T03:23:31Z")
I know this is taking an analogy to an extreme, Michael Smith spitting on Jane Fonda reminds me of the inmate that killed a “pedophile priest” inmate in 2003. The link: [http://www.msnbc.com/news/956496.asp?vts=082320031610&cp1=1](http://www.msnbc.com/news/956496.asp?vts=082320031610&cp1=1) To me it seems Michael Smith figured that committing a vulgar act against an unpopular celebrity would get him fame, recognition and approval from the majority of Americans. Similarly, the inmate who killed the priest was losing nothing because he already was serving a life sentence for murder. Not surprisingly, the majority of the public was in favor of the inmate taking the actions that he did. However, I feel that neither of these people did these actions out of ideology, but as a cheap way of getting attention and fame. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2005, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vietnam-vet-spits-in-jane-fondas-face/300419/64 "2005-04-30T13:31:45Z")
> [@MGibson](#): > > That’s just fucking stupid. Of course she has the right to have her opinions and express them. The vitriol heaped upon her isn’t because she exercised her freedom of speech it’s because of the way she decided to exercise it. Following your inane logic doesn’t freedom of speech apply to those who disagree with her and heap vitriol upon her? > > Marc Really? And who decides what is the ‘correct’ way to express herself…you? The Constitution is a bill of rights, not a bill of wrongs. She was castigated because she was (and is) an outspoken _woman_ who dared to spit in the government’s eye and not swallow the bullshit they were handing out. On the other hand, John Kerry stood up in front of his government as a veteran and told them the same thing; nobody seemed to launch a lifelong smear campaign against him. It didn’t bite him in the ass until he ran for prez. And your last sentence is the worst sort of strawman argument, peckerhead. [gump]Stupid is as stupid does.[/gump] ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2005, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vietnam-vet-spits-in-jane-fondas-face/300419/65 "2005-04-30T15:31:07Z")
> [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#): > > She could have stopped the war in its tracks if only she’d gone in character of [her definitive role](http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://barbarella.mon-oueb.com/barbarella-01/images/barbarella-06.jpg&imgrefurl=http://barbarella.mon-oueb.com/barbarella-01/barbarella-06.phtml&h=494&w=364&sz=47&tbnid=2yGPL5cBnIQJ:&tbnh=126&tbnw=93&start=3&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dbarbarella%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26c2coff%3D1%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26sa%3DN). As long as this thread has come back to life, I’d like to mention that every time I see the movie, I want to marry Cat Ballou. ---
**Author:** ![Diane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2acd7d/32.png) [@Diane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diane)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2005, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vietnam-vet-spits-in-jane-fondas-face/300419/66 "2005-04-30T16:37:07Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > What she did was bad enough, we don’t have to gild it… I just wanted to highlight that one more time. We don’t need madeup stories about turned over notes and laughs at POWs to boost what she did. What she did was digusting enough. > [@Chefguy](#): > > She was castigated because she was (and is) an outspoken woman who dared to spit in the government’s eye and not swallow the bullshit they were handing out. No, she didn’t spit in the eye of the governments, she spit in the eye of the American sholdiers, most just boys who had no choice but to be there. Huge difference. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2005, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vietnam-vet-spits-in-jane-fondas-face/300419/67 "2005-04-30T16:51:23Z")
Isn’t anyone else sick of all these bullshit stories about spit? And I’m not talking about pseudo-veterans now, you fucking dumbasses. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2005, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vietnam-vet-spits-in-jane-fondas-face/300419/68 "2005-04-30T17:30:42Z")
There’s a bunch of Hollywood types who earned our disdain in those dark years. John Wayne, for instance, who produced and starred in _The Green Berets_, one of the most skillfully crafted excercises in political propaganda ever produced. _Triumph of the Will_ shrinks in comparison, no subtlety. You see, I kinda think that a man who supports his country in an ignoble and/or futile cause, does no honor to his country or to himself. “My country, right or wrong!” is the dogma of a moral retard. Even more a man who has not, nor ever will, personally face the consequences urging young men to fling their lives into a toilet. At the time, I too was deeply pissed at Jane Fonda, for giving aid and comfort to the enemy. I am willing to lend about a half-ass acceptance of her defense that she was naive and misled, but still, GOD DAMN! what a stupid fucking thing to do, gave the pro-war knuckle-walkers a ton of ammo! Berrigan Brothers? Jane Fonda! George McGovern? Jane Fonda! ML King? Jane Fonda, Jane Fonda, Jane Fonda!! Course, they were perfectly willing to make shit up to serve their purposes, so if they hadn’t Jane, they would have invented her. For that matter, what about those cynical fucks who made all those “missing in action” movies, and the twisted grief they offered: the sadistic combination of hope and horror that loved ones might still be alive, and being tormented by those evil, evil Commies? Want to spit on someone? Howzabout Robert McNamara and ol’ Hank Kissinger, who continued to promote futile, rotten policies when they knew…_knew!_…the true nature of their actions. I can only hope they believe in God, and cringe expecting judgement. The only bright spot in this morbid little tale is when I read the part about how he didn’t chew tobacco, just got some to chew and make his display of expectoral patriotism more dramatic. Maybe he didn’t flee the scene to escape capture, he probably craved the attention capture would afford. Maybe he was running outside to puke his guts out. (Note to puppy Dopers: if you’ve not seen _Green Berets_, I recommend it if you are interested in examing the dark art of war propaganda.) ---
**Author:** ![Diane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2acd7d/32.png) [@Diane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diane)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2005, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vietnam-vet-spits-in-jane-fondas-face/300419/69 "2005-04-30T17:46:19Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > Isn’t anyone else sick of all these bullshit stories about spit? And I’m not talking about pseudo-veterans now, you fucking dumbasses. Ummmm. . . I wasn’t talking about literally spitting, I was just tossing the same cliche back at Chefguy and I am pretty sure he didn’t mean that Jane ACTUALLY spit in the eye of the government either. Who is the dumbass? ---
**Author:** ![Diane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2acd7d/32.png) [@Diane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diane)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2005, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vietnam-vet-spits-in-jane-fondas-face/300419/70 "2005-04-30T17:56:47Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > Isn’t anyone else sick of all these bullshit stories about spit? And I’m not talking about pseudo-veterans now, you fucking dumbasses. As a veterans advocate and counselor, I do know that the stories of people lined up at airports to spit on the Vietnam soldiers are products of urban legend. However, I have seen enough evidence (i.e. police report in one veteran’s file regarding assault charges after he beat two guys for throwing eggs AND SPITTING on him on his trip back home) and heard enough believable stories, one from a very reliable, Vietnam veteran/coworker/fellow counselor who was punched in the face upon his return. Just because the stories of spitting have been grossly exaggerated, don’t think that it never happened anyplace or to anyone. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2005, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vietnam-vet-spits-in-jane-fondas-face/300419/71 "2005-04-30T21:09:49Z")
> [@Diane](#): > > No, she didn’t spit in the eye of the governments, she spit in the eye of the American sholdiers, most just boys who had no choice but to be there. > > Huge difference. Big fucking wah. Trying to make it a sob story because they were ‘boys’ is just more emotional manipulation. I was there. I had no choice. I did my job and came home. Jane Fonda was a minor annoyance then, and even less so now. People burning the flag in the US was more upsetting to me than any of Fonda’s shenanigans, but I figured, ‘fuck it, they have the right to express themselves’. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2005, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vietnam-vet-spits-in-jane-fondas-face/300419/72 "2005-04-30T21:21:19Z")
Any links to recent news articles following up the OP? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2005, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vietnam-vet-spits-in-jane-fondas-face/300419/73 "2005-04-30T21:31:34Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Really? And who decides what is the ‘correct’ way to express herself…you? The Constitution is a bill of rights, not a bill of wrongs. She was castigated because she was (and is) an outspoken _woman_ who dared to spit in the government’s eye and not swallow the bullshit they were handing out. On the other hand, John Kerry stood up in front of his government as a veteran and told them the same thing; nobody seemed to launch a lifelong smear campaign against him. It didn’t bite him in the ass until he ran for prez. > > And your last sentence is the worst sort of strawman argument, peckerhead. [gump]Stupid is as stupid does.[/gump] John Kerry wasn’t shilling for the Viet fucking Cong. Yes, he spoke out against war crimes-he didn’t call all Vietnam Vets baby-killers. Also, he probably knew a hell of a lot more than Jane Fonda when it came to the problems with the war. When you find John Kerry striking sexy poses on enemy weapons, then we’ll talk. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2005, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vietnam-vet-spits-in-jane-fondas-face/300419/74 "2005-04-30T21:34:32Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > All this talk about the “enemy” makes me wonder if any of you know what the war was about. Vietnam was not our enemy, they didn’t attack us, they weren’t trying to take away our freedom, we were over there in their country shooting at them and bombing them. > > None of this should reflect badly on the vets, however, they were just doing their job. Jane Fonda was trying to end the war and stop people on both sides from being killed. She might have been more effective if she had two brain lobes to rub together. The North Vietnamese and their South Vietnamese supporters were definitely our enemy. We were working with the South Vietnamese government in active defense of a North Vietnamese invasion. We didn’t “invade” Vietnam, we assumed a defensive position in South Vietnam and took very few offensive ground based actions against the North. Obviously the conflict is more complicated than that. We can argue about the legal, ethical, and functional merits of supporting the South Vietnamese government (as well as the legitimacy and independence from the U.S. of said government.) But the fact is we were on one clear side of a conflict, and North Vietnam was on the other. We definitely had an “enemy” over there. Just because the North Vietnamese never struck any domestic targets doesn’t mean they weren’t our enemies. Even if the Vietnam war was completely unjustified it’s still true that there were two sides, we were on one side, North Vietnam was on another. Thus they were our enemies in the war. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2005, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vietnam-vet-spits-in-jane-fondas-face/300419/75 "2005-04-30T21:36:41Z")
> [@Diane](#): > > As a veterans advocate and counselor, I do know that the stories of people lined up at airports to spit on the Vietnam soldiers are products of urban legend. However, I have seen enough evidence (i.e. police report in one veteran’s file regarding assault charges after he beat two guys for throwing eggs AND SPITTING on him on his trip back home) and heard enough believable stories, one from a very reliable, Vietnam veteran/coworker/fellow counselor who was punched in the face upon his return. > > Just because the stories of spitting have been grossly exaggerated, don’t think that it never happened anyplace or to anyone. One writer who investigated and searched for evidence of the spitting, had to give it up as a urban legend, so I have to take with a grain of salt what you are saying here, it is interesting to note that in a past discussion only one veteran came forward (\*\*Triscademus \*\* I think) and confirmed the spitting on a first hand account… But the spitters were the pro-war punks disrupting a war protest that he was being part of! Of course, screams of treason were heard too launched against him, it seems the pro-war faction assumes the spitting was real, and this in their minds justifies their actions today and then. ---
**Author:** ![Diane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2acd7d/32.png) [@Diane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diane)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2005, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vietnam-vet-spits-in-jane-fondas-face/300419/76 "2005-04-30T21:49:54Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Big fucking wah. Trying to make it a sob story because they were ‘boys’ is just more emotional manipulation. I was there. I had no choice. I did my job and came home. Jane Fonda was a minor annoyance then, and even less so now. People burning the flag in the US was more upsetting to me than any of Fonda’s shenanigans, but I figured, ‘fuck it, they have the right to express themselves’. Oh get off it with your “big fucking wahs”. There are those, such as yourself, who just said “fuck it” and have gone on your merry way with little thought or sleepless night since. I’m happy for you, really. However, I have been working with disabled vets for 16 years and counting - as a counselor - and I can assure you that there are veterans suffering survivor guilt and severe PTSD who, along with the images and experiences in Vietnam, still have mental and emotional problems because of the attitudes they came home to. Again, I am thrilled you don’t have these problems, just don’t be so goddamn judgemental and holier than thou when it comes to those who do. ---
**Author:** ![Diane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2acd7d/32.png) [@Diane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diane)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2005, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vietnam-vet-spits-in-jane-fondas-face/300419/77 "2005-04-30T21:57:08Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > One writer who investigated and searched for evidence of the spitting, had to give it up as a urban legend, so I have to take with a grain of salt what you are saying here, it is interesting to note that in a past discussion only one veteran came forward (\*\*Triscademus \*\* I think) and confirmed the spitting on a first hand account… > > But the spitters were the pro-war punks disrupting a war protest that he was being part of! Of course, screams of treason were heard too launched against him, it seems the pro-war faction assumes the spitting was real, and this in their minds justifies their actions today and then. I agree that the most of those stories are urban legend, however, it is naive to think that no returning soldiers, anywhere, were ever subjected to name calling, punched to the face (as happened to my coworker), or spitting. None of them. ---
**Author:** ![wolf\_meister](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf_meister/32/15202_2.png) [@wolf\_meister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolf_meister)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2005, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vietnam-vet-spits-in-jane-fondas-face/300419/78 "2005-04-30T22:15:34Z")
**Bosda Di’Chi of Tricor** I have looked for recent news articles on this but nothing. I’m still wondering if this guy is really a Vietnam Veteran. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2005, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vietnam-vet-spits-in-jane-fondas-face/300419/79 "2005-04-30T22:17:21Z")
> [@Diane](#): > > I agree that the most of those stories are urban legend, however, it is naive to think that no returning soldiers, anywhere, were ever subjected to name calling, punched to the face (as happened to my coworker), or spitting. None of them. Yes, but my point here is that the real naiveté is to continue talking like it was generally so (the guy who spitted on Fonda) and even your examples are doubtful: the guy said that the others spitted, but it is clear that he beat the crap out the protesters, him saying they spitted on him was part of his defense, but it looks like he was convicted of assaulting the protesters. And the last incident was not spitting, needless to say, I condemn those actions from protesters if they happened. And I have to remark something: By training, soldiers could indeed cause harm to protesters, that is why “spitting on a soldier” is an expression in the old country that means “committing suicide” a mindless action if protesters did use it. ---
**Author:** ![Diane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2acd7d/32.png) [@Diane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diane)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2005, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vietnam-vet-spits-in-jane-fondas-face/300419/80 "2005-04-30T23:12:55Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Yes, but my point here is that the real naiveté is to continue talking like it was generally so (the guy who spitted on Fonda) and even your examples are doubtful: the guy said that the others spitted, but it is clear that he beat the crap out the protesters, him saying they spitted on him was part of his defense, but it looks like he was convicted of assaulting the protesters. > > And the last incident was not spitting, needless to say, I condemn those actions from protesters if they happened. > > And I have to remark something: By training, soldiers could indeed cause harm to protesters, that is why “spitting on a soldier” is an expression in the old country that means “committing suicide” a mindless action if protesters did use it. I think in some sense we are arguing the same side. The stories of spitting protesters have been grossly exagerated. I obviously can not prove it to you because it would be unethical, illegal, and cause me to lose my job if I were to scan and post the documents I have seen in my line of work. Believe me or not, your choice. The veteran I mentioned above had an egg thrown at him and was spit on at a bus station. He turned around and punched one of the guys who did it. The other guy came at him so he shoved him against the wall. All three were arrested. The police report is in the veteran’s file, I have seen it. Again, that is all the proof I can give you. I haven’t seen any proof of what happened with my coworker, but I know the guy very well and have no reason to doubt him. My point is this. A lot, not all, but more than a few Vietnam veterans were not treated nicely upon their return. It is not implausible that some of them were spit on, called names, or assaulted. However, the stories about widespread spitting are nothing but urban legend. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vietnam-vet-spits-in-jane-fondas-face/300419.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vietnam-vet-spits-in-jane-fondas-face/300419.md?page=5)