# Vietnam war: Why weren't conscripts drafted into the Navy or the Air Force? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 14, 2014, 8:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vietnam-war-why-werent-conscripts-drafted-into-the-navy-or-the-air-force/698464 "2014-09-14T08:37:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Donnerwetter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Donnerwetter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donnerwetter)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 8:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vietnam-war-why-werent-conscripts-drafted-into-the-navy-or-the-air-force/698464/1 "2014-09-14T08:37:27Z")
The [book of knowledge](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscription_in_the_United_States) reports: > [@](#): > > For those who could meet the more stringent enlistment standards, service in the Air Force, Navy, or Coast Guard was a means of reducing the chances of being killed. > > […] > > The draft has also been credited with “encouraging” many of the 8.7 million “volunteers” to join rather than risk being drafted. Why didn’t the US Navy and the US Air Force take (or maybe rather: were **forced to take** ) conscripts during the Vietnam Era? Draftees only served in the Army and the Marine Corps. Was that a conscious policy decision on the part of the military and/or political leadership? ---
**Author:** ![Amberlei](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e56c9b/32.png) [@Amberlei](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amberlei)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 10:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vietnam-war-why-werent-conscripts-drafted-into-the-navy-or-the-air-force/698464/2 "2014-09-14T10:13:28Z")
I think your answer lies with the Navy and Air Force having more selective standards. Being able to be highly selective means that they had a broad pool of wannabe enlistees to do their selection from, thus they were able to recruit enough people to meet their needs without having to resort to drafting. ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 10:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vietnam-war-why-werent-conscripts-drafted-into-the-navy-or-the-air-force/698464/3 "2014-09-14T10:50:47Z")
I recall that, when I was in high school, the father of one of the guys on my football team, who was very highly ranked in the RAAF, tried desperately to get us to consider enlisting in the Air Force. “It’s not like being in the Army,” was one of his selling points. Unfortunately we didn’t listen to him. Over the decades since I finished high school I have met several people who were in the Australian or US air services and all speak glowingly of the experience. So I guess even here conscripts weren’t required. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vietnam-war-why-werent-conscripts-drafted-into-the-navy-or-the-air-force/698464/4 "2014-09-14T11:08:11Z")
It’s not like the Navy needed a gigantic expansion to take on the vast fleet of North Viet-Nam, is it ? As for the USAF, I’d guess they were simply swamped with volunteers trying to get out of the draft by joining a “safer”, more comfy branch of service. Tightening the lug nuts on a Phantom might not be glamorous, but it deffo beats humping a jungle trail at night on 4 hours sleep. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vietnam-war-why-werent-conscripts-drafted-into-the-navy-or-the-air-force/698464/5 "2014-09-14T11:23:25Z")
Until later on when the Navy created river patrols and even Air Force bases were vulnerable to attack. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vietnam-war-why-werent-conscripts-drafted-into-the-navy-or-the-air-force/698464/6 "2014-09-14T14:19:18Z")
The answer is in the quoted material. Historically, the Army and Marine Corps have very high attrition rates during war time and need replacements to send into the meat grinder. For example, in WWII, there were about 37,000 Navy combat deaths; by contrast, there were about 235,000 Army combat deaths. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vietnam-war-why-werent-conscripts-drafted-into-the-navy-or-the-air-force/698464/7 "2014-09-14T17:24:46Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Until later on when the Navy created river patrols and even Air Force bases were vulnerable to attack. I don’t know if I have told this story before, but this American gentleman of my acquaintance had an interesting experience. He and his cousin who were best friends and born just a few days apart did quite different things wrt to the draft. He joined the Navy and end up on a destroyer off the coast of Vietnam. Just a few days after arrival, it was hit by shore batteries (or maybe a mine, I can’t remember) and he was grivieously wounded. Spend nearly a year in recovery. His cousin? Took a chance and was drafted, Ended up in Vietnam. Ended up at Corps HQ as a clerk and spent his tour typing and fucking his way through brothels. So, its not that Navy/AF was sans danger. ---
**Author:** ![obbn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/d6d6ee/32.png) [@obbn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/obbn)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vietnam-war-why-werent-conscripts-drafted-into-the-navy-or-the-air-force/698464/8 "2014-09-14T17:46:36Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > The answer is in the quoted material. Historically, the Army and Marine Corps have very high attrition rates during war time and need replacements to send into the meat grinder. For example, in WWII, there were about 37,000 Navy combat deaths; by contrast, there were about 235,000 Army combat deaths. In World War II the Air Corps lost more men in the European bombing campaign that the Marines lost in the entire war. I can’t recall off the top of my head, but the Eighth Air Force list something like 26,000 men. If you were looking for safety, the Air Force wasn’t the place to be, at least in World War II. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vietnam-war-why-werent-conscripts-drafted-into-the-navy-or-the-air-force/698464/9 "2014-09-14T18:05:34Z")
> [@obbn](#): > > In World War II the Air Corps lost more men in the European bombing campaign that the Marines lost in the entire war. I can’t recall off the top of my head, but the Eighth Air Force list something like 26,000 men. > > If you were looking for safety, the Air Force wasn’t the place to be, at least in World War II. True enough: I just finished Atkinson’s WWII trilogy and the attrition rate for plane crews was staggering. The Air Corps was drafting cooks and clerks for crew members late in the game. Another interesting note: the Army quit referring to draftees as “replacements” late in the war, as the implication was that you were taking the place of a dead man; instead, they were called “reinforcements”. I joined the Navy during Vietnam, as the large majority of combat deaths for that little picnic was from Army and Marine troops. It was my own version of ‘draft dodging’, and I was far from alone in that. ---
**Author:** ![SanDiegoTim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/85e7bf/32.png) [@SanDiegoTim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanDiegoTim)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vietnam-war-why-werent-conscripts-drafted-into-the-navy-or-the-air-force/698464/10 "2014-09-14T19:36:50Z")
Speaking as someone who was drafted…When someone was drafted they were done so “into the Armed Forces” not into a particular branch. Personally, I to the Marines. As to why not the Navy or the Air Force, the reason is simple…they did not need the draft to fill their quotas. This was because many chose to enlist in the Navy or Air Force to avoid what was deemed to be more trying service (on the ground in Viet Nam) in the Army. For some Navy enlistees, specifically those trained as corpsmen, their tables were turned rather abruptly as many were assigned to Marine units. Corpsmen assigned to Marine infantry units had it as difficult. if not more so, than anyone. W/regard to the Marines, they didn’t draft all that many simply because it was/is a much smaller organization. This, combined with the fact there was/is no particular shortage of those who just want to be Marines. However, in mid/late 1960’s even the Marines could not meet their quotas without having to draft. On my induction day (May 1969) 113 reported. The army took 111, the Marines 2. Only raffle I ever won. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vietnam-war-why-werent-conscripts-drafted-into-the-navy-or-the-air-force/698464/11 "2014-09-15T04:14:05Z")
Yet, after the war it doesnt matter what service they were in or how much bloodshed they experienced, they all get the same veterans benefits. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vietnam-war-why-werent-conscripts-drafted-into-the-navy-or-the-air-force/698464/12 "2014-09-15T13:57:13Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Yet, after the war it doesnt matter what service they were in or how much bloodshed they experienced, they all get the same veterans benefits. It doesn’t matter if you were a door gunner on a Huey or played clarinet in the Army band, either. Your point being? ---
**Author:** ![Quercus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7ab992/32.png) [@Quercus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quercus)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vietnam-war-why-werent-conscripts-drafted-into-the-navy-or-the-air-force/698464/13 "2014-09-15T15:40:55Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > The answer is in the quoted material. Historically, the Army and Marine Corps have very high attrition rates during war time and need replacements to send into the meat grinder. For example, in WWII, there were about 37,000 Navy combat deaths; by contrast, there were about 235,000 Army combat deaths. > [@obbn](#): > > In World War II the Air Corps lost more men in the European bombing campaign that the Marines lost in the entire war. I can’t recall off the top of my head, but the Eighth Air Force list something like 26,000 men. > > If you were looking for safety, the Air Force wasn’t the place to be, at least in World War II. And the US group with the highest death rate in WWII (1 in 24!) was the [Merchant Marine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Merchant_Marine#19th_and_20th_centuries). Makes being a rifleman downright kindergarten safe by comparison. Not that the Vietnam war was in any way comparable, of course. Just saying historically, being on a ship wasn’t necessarily better than being a mud-pounder. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vietnam-war-why-werent-conscripts-drafted-into-the-navy-or-the-air-force/698464/14 "2014-09-15T20:18:03Z")
> [@Quercus](#): > > And the US group with the highest death rate in WWII (1 in 24!) was the [Merchant Marine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Merchant_Marine#19th_and_20th_centuries). Makes being a rifleman downright kindergarten safe by comparison. German submariners probably had it the worst, clocking a sweet 13% going-back-home rate. Another 13% got captured. The remaining 75% (3 out of 4 poor schmucks) ? Job interview with Davy Jones. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vietnam-war-why-werent-conscripts-drafted-into-the-navy-or-the-air-force/698464/15 "2014-09-15T20:27:30Z")
Imagine if, today, we were drafting troops to go into Iraq & Syria to fight ISIS, and yes boots on the ground will be involved. The Navy & Air Force would definitely be seen as a “safer” choice than either the Army or Marines. ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vietnam-war-why-werent-conscripts-drafted-into-the-navy-or-the-air-force/698464/16 "2014-09-15T20:46:35Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > I don’t know if I have told this story before, but this American gentleman of my acquaintance had an interesting experience. He and his cousin who were best friends and born just a few days apart did quite different things wrt to the draft. He joined the Navy and end up on a destroyer off the coast of Vietnam. Just a few days after arrival, it was hit by shore batteries (or maybe a mine, I can’t remember) and he was grivieously wounded. Spend nearly a year in recovery. > > His cousin? Took a chance and was drafted, Ended up in Vietnam. Ended up at Corps HQ as a clerk and spent his tour typing and fucking his way through brothels. > > So, its not that Navy/AF was sans danger. If you got posted to Viet Nam, true. My first BF had enlisted in the air force (to avoid being drafted) and spent a lovely 4 years in England, where he met one of his idols, Vanessa Redgrave. I, fortunately for me, was 1-Y which was later transmuted to 4-F, so I spent the same 4 years in college. Where are we now? Who knows, we’ve lost touch. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vietnam-war-why-werent-conscripts-drafted-into-the-navy-or-the-air-force/698464/17 "2014-09-15T22:40:29Z")
> [@SanDiegoTim](#): > > Speaking as someone who was drafted…When someone was drafted they were done so “into the Armed Forces” not into a particular branch. Personally, I to the Marines. As to why not the Navy or the Air Force, the reason is simple…they did not need the draft to fill their quotas. This was because many chose to enlist in the Navy or Air Force to avoid what was deemed to be more trying service (on the ground in Viet Nam) in the Army. … Exactly. The USAF and USN had a waiting list at that time, as did the USCG. It was seen as a way to avoid going to Southeast Asia. (although the USAF did end up there as did some Navy and Coast Guard personnel) Then there was McNamara’s 100,000, sometimes referred to as McNamara’s moron corps (not my words). Those draftees would have never made it into the Navy or Air Force, or the Coast Guard. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vietnam-war-why-werent-conscripts-drafted-into-the-navy-or-the-air-force/698464/18 "2014-09-15T22:48:56Z")
I joined the Navy to avoid going to Vietnam. The AF had no openings at the time, and you couldn’t get into the National Guard unless your daddy was rich. Unfortunately, I was designated Group 8 (Naval Construction Force), and nine months after I joined I found myself on a Marine Corps base north of Da Nang. We weren’t exactly on the front lines, of course, but endured enough incoming rocket and mortar attacks to last me a lifetime. Then there were the Swift Boat folks, whose life expectancy wasn’t all that great. Could have been worse. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vietnam-war-why-werent-conscripts-drafted-into-the-navy-or-the-air-force/698464/19 "2014-09-15T23:09:00Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > and you couldn’t get into the National Guard unless your daddy was rich. It made it easier but it wasn’t universally true. A good friend of mine was a college student at the time. They changed the number of academic units needed to avoid being drafted and he didn’t get the memo and was taking too few. This was in the lottery days and his number was low. He went through his physical and everything. He decided to try to join the Army National Guard in California. Everyone told him that it wasn’t going to happen and that he needed connections. He was determined to drive to every NG Recruiting Office in the State until he found an opening. He started here in Santa Barbara where he lived and, much to his relief, he was immediately accepted. The draft ended soon after. He was still in the Army for years after the war was over. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2014, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vietnam-war-why-werent-conscripts-drafted-into-the-navy-or-the-air-force/698464/20 "2014-09-16T00:16:05Z")
I know a guy who was drafted in Vietnam era but then went down and joined the Air Force so that negated his draft. Not sure how common that was but it worked for him. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vietnam-war-why-werent-conscripts-drafted-into-the-navy-or-the-air-force/698464.md?page=2)