# Vietnam war: Why weren't conscripts drafted into the Navy or the Air Force? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 14, 2014, 8:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vietnam-war-why-werent-conscripts-drafted-into-the-navy-or-the-air-force/698464 "2014-09-14T08:37:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2014, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vietnam-war-why-werent-conscripts-drafted-into-the-navy-or-the-air-force/698464/21 "2014-09-16T00:56:54Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > I know a guy who was drafted in Vietnam era but then went down and joined the Air Force so that negated his draft. Not sure how common that was but it worked for him. What normally happened is that first you received a notice to report for a physical. Then you were told that in 21 days you could be called up (pre-lottery). A lot of people like me joined in that 21 day period. I’ve never heard of anyone who had already been drafted being able to then enlist in another service. ---
**Author:** ![MichaelEmouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michaelemouse/32/101_2.png) [@MichaelEmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelEmouse)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2014, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vietnam-war-why-werent-conscripts-drafted-into-the-navy-or-the-air-force/698464/22 "2014-09-16T01:07:18Z")
Could you fail out of the most dangerous duty? Does the military consider that there is such a thing as too stupid/lazy/etc to be in the infantry? ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2014, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vietnam-war-why-werent-conscripts-drafted-into-the-navy-or-the-air-force/698464/23 "2014-09-16T02:28:50Z")
> [@MichaelEmouse](#): > > Could you fail out of the most dangerous duty? Does the military consider that there is such a thing as too stupid/lazy/etc to be in the infantry? Out of the infantry? Being a ground pounder is pretty much the bottom shelf as far as skill sets. It takes some doing to fail at being a rifleman. That doesn’t mean that there aren’t people who just aren’t fit for military service, of course. People wash out of basic training all the time, and if they’re not identified in basic, then they may end up with an administrative discharge down the line somewhere. But being stupid and lazy will likely just get you killed sooner rather than later. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2014, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vietnam-war-why-werent-conscripts-drafted-into-the-navy-or-the-air-force/698464/24 "2014-09-16T04:03:18Z")
When I joined the Air Force, I went down to the Induction Center in Oakland waiting for my flight that was going to take me to Basic Training in San Antonio. The place was full of draftees. Suddenly, a Marine sergeant shows up and orders all of the draftees to line up, and then count off by fours. One, two, three, four … He then said, “Congratulations. All of you fours are now US Marines.” You should have seen the faces. ---
**Author:** ![SanDiegoTim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/85e7bf/32.png) [@SanDiegoTim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanDiegoTim)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2014, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vietnam-war-why-werent-conscripts-drafted-into-the-navy-or-the-air-force/698464/25 "2014-09-16T12:58:56Z")
“Not that the Vietnam war was in any way comparable, of course. Just saying historically, being on a ship wasn’t necessarily better than being a mud-pounder.” So very true. Mention Guadalcanal and American casualties and immediately the Marine Corps comes to mind. Of course, for good reason. However, the Navy had double the KIAs as did the Marines. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2014, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vietnam-war-why-werent-conscripts-drafted-into-the-navy-or-the-air-force/698464/26 "2014-09-16T13:08:59Z")
Did they allow qualified draftees to become officers? Because I keep hearing so much about college deferments and the US phase of the war lasted 9 years. I would have thought a recent College grad would have been prime candidature to become that most in danger of military animals, junior officer? ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2014, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vietnam-war-why-werent-conscripts-drafted-into-the-navy-or-the-air-force/698464/27 "2014-09-16T13:55:45Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Did they allow qualified draftees to become officers? Because I keep hearing so much about college deferments and the US phase of the war lasted 9 years. I would have thought a recent College grad would have been prime candidature to become that most in danger of military animals, junior officer? Yes, and you didn’t have to be a college grad (at least for the Army). My best friend in college allowed himself to be drafted into the Army in 1966 (he was a sophomore at the time), rather than enlist. When he got to basic training he took the usual battery of tests, and, since he was a near genius to begin with, became eligible for Army OCS. He ended up as a 2LT, went to Nam, and was wounded in a mortar barrage which ended his military service. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2014, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vietnam-war-why-werent-conscripts-drafted-into-the-navy-or-the-air-force/698464/28 "2014-09-16T17:08:59Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > But being stupid and lazy will likely just get you killed sooner rather than later. Or “tuned up” by the rest of your platoon… > [@](#): > > and was wounded in a mortar barrage which ended his military service. In his defence, until then he was probably among the deadliest of the warriors : a fresh LT with a map, a compass and an idea :p. ---
**Author:** ![SanDiegoTim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/85e7bf/32.png) [@SanDiegoTim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanDiegoTim)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2014, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vietnam-war-why-werent-conscripts-drafted-into-the-navy-or-the-air-force/698464/29 "2014-09-16T17:47:57Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Did they allow qualified draftees to become officers? Because I keep hearing so much about college deferments and the US phase of the war lasted 9 years. I would have thought a recent College grad would have been prime candidature to become that most in danger of military animals, junior officer? As noted above, yes. Soon after arrival at MCRD San Diego (Marine Boot Camp) we spent a morning taking a battery of tests. Afterwards I was asked if attending OCS was something I wanted to do. This, despite the fact I had only a couple years of college under my belt. I declined as my active duty commitment would have increased from two to six years. While I have no regrets as to my post-service life, there are times when I wish I had accepted. This would not happen today as all officer candidates must have at least a four year degree. I believe this is also true for the Navy. Don’t know about the Air Force and Army. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2014, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vietnam-war-why-werent-conscripts-drafted-into-the-navy-or-the-air-force/698464/30 "2014-09-16T21:01:18Z")
> [@SanDiegoTim](#): > > As noted above, yes. Soon after arrival at MCRD San Diego (Marine Boot Camp) we spent a morning taking a battery of tests. Afterwards I was asked if attending OCS was something I wanted to do. This, despite the fact I had only a couple years of college under my belt. I declined as my active duty commitment would have increased from two to six years. While I have no regrets as to my post-service life, there are times when I wish I had accepted. > > This would not happen today as all officer candidates must have at least a four year degree. I believe this is also true for the Navy. Don’t know about the Air Force and Army. That’s pretty much how it’s always been for the Navy, other than for a couple of bootstrap programs like LDO and Warrant. Programs like NESEP required those who were accepted to complete a four-year degree in engineering or math (the Marines got a bit of curriculum leeway, for some reason) at a participating university. **Kobal2** : yeah, but they forgot to teach him how to duck, apparently. ---
**Author:** ![indian3478](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b3f665/32.png) [@indian3478](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/indian3478)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2014, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vietnam-war-why-werent-conscripts-drafted-into-the-navy-or-the-air-force/698464/31 "2014-10-02T14:48:59Z")
The only ones that were drafted were the poor !! Many ran to Canada then were allowed back which was BS . Then there was Clinton and his Vice Pres that bought out ! Jim ---
**Author:** ![SanDiegoTim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/85e7bf/32.png) [@SanDiegoTim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanDiegoTim)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2014, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vietnam-war-why-werent-conscripts-drafted-into-the-navy-or-the-air-force/698464/32 "2014-10-02T15:55:21Z")
I wasn’t poor and I was drafted. Just took a semester off. W/regard to Marines, they are looking for leadership skills, not for any particular degree. ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2014, 10:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vietnam-war-why-werent-conscripts-drafted-into-the-navy-or-the-air-force/698464/33 "2014-10-03T10:04:07Z")
> [@MichaelEmouse](#): > > Could you fail out of the most dangerous duty? Does the military consider that there is such a thing as too stupid/lazy/etc to be in the infantry? Not sure about the draft, but the Army requires a Combat (CO) score of 87 to be eligible for infantry. That isn’t difficult to achieve, (I have a 150) but it is possible for a person to not have high enough test score for the infantry. I think fueler, supply, and clerk have the lowest required scores and they are arguably some of the safest jobs. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2014, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vietnam-war-why-werent-conscripts-drafted-into-the-navy-or-the-air-force/698464/34 "2014-10-03T16:21:34Z")
> [@indian3478](#): > > Then there was Clinton and his Vice Pres that bought out ! Jim Gore was drafted and spent two years in the army, although only 4 months in Vietnam itself. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2014, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vietnam-war-why-werent-conscripts-drafted-into-the-navy-or-the-air-force/698464/35 "2014-10-03T18:44:25Z")
> [@obbn](#): > > In World War II the Air Corps lost more men in the European bombing campaign that the Marines lost in the entire war. I can’t recall off the top of my head, but the Eighth Air Force list something like 26,000 men. How many guys did it take to keep a B-17 and it’s crew working? ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2014, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vietnam-war-why-werent-conscripts-drafted-into-the-navy-or-the-air-force/698464/36 "2014-10-03T19:32:50Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > How many guys did it take to keep a B-17 and it’s crew working? Quite a few, although probably not as lopsided of a crew:support ratio as you have these days. ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vietnam-war-why-werent-conscripts-drafted-into-the-navy-or-the-air-force/698464/37 "2014-10-30T22:51:05Z")
> [@SanDiegoTim](#): > > This would not happen today as all officer candidates must have at least a four year degree. I believe this is also true for the Navy. Don’t know about the Air Force and Army. For the Army … it depends. Three components (Active, Guard, Reserve) and multiple programs to get a commission. Standard vary with needs and are generally getting tighter as the Army draws down. My answer is from the last few years not necessarily data current to today. Generally you aren’t getting on to active duty without the degree. I don’t recall recent standards for currently active Soldiers to go to OCS so that might be an exception. Guard has State OCS programs and has been direct commissioning NCOs during the recent busy years. Generally they have required a set amount of progress (2-3 years) to get the commission. Reserve used Federal OCS slots but those slots dried up during the war (they all went to Active duty bound officers.) Direct commissioning filled the gap and didn’t necessarily require degree completion beforehand. The promotion system prevents you from making Captain, no matter your component, without the 4 year degree. > [@MichaelEmouse](#): > > Does the military consider that there is such a thing as too stupid/lazy/etc to be in the infantry? The medical standards are some of the more stringent. Medical conditions that don’t prevent service could prevent being an infantryman. As for too lazy… that’s what good NCOs are for. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2014, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vietnam-war-why-werent-conscripts-drafted-into-the-navy-or-the-air-force/698464/38 "2014-10-31T00:50:27Z")
> [@obbn](#): > > In World War II the Air Corps lost more men in the European bombing campaign that the Marines lost in the entire war. I can’t recall off the top of my head, but the Eighth Air Force list something like 26,000 men. > > If you were looking for safety, the Air Force wasn’t the place to be, at least in World War II. RAF Bomber Command lost 55,573 in WWII, which was about a 44% death rate. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2014, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vietnam-war-why-werent-conscripts-drafted-into-the-navy-or-the-air-force/698464/39 "2014-10-31T02:21:09Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > RAF Bomber Command lost 55,573 in WWII, which was about a 44% death rate. See Len Deighton’s novel, _Bomber_. ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2014, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vietnam-war-why-werent-conscripts-drafted-into-the-navy-or-the-air-force/698464/40 "2014-10-31T03:43:59Z")
WWII allied personnel losses in air forces in Europe were overwhelmingly flight crews. Wrench benders and supply types probably had a pretty low loss rate. It was a different story at Henderson Field on Guadalcanal. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vietnam-war-why-werent-conscripts-drafted-into-the-navy-or-the-air-force/698464.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vietnam-war-why-werent-conscripts-drafted-into-the-navy-or-the-air-force/698464.md?page=3)