# Vietnam war: Why weren't conscripts drafted into the Navy or the Air Force? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 14, 2014, 8:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vietnam-war-why-werent-conscripts-drafted-into-the-navy-or-the-air-force/698464 "2014-09-14T08:37:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2016, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vietnam-war-why-werent-conscripts-drafted-into-the-navy-or-the-air-force/698464/61 "2016-10-15T06:19:57Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > It doesn’t matter if you were a door gunner on a Huey or played clarinet in the Army band, either. Your point being? My mother graduated high school in 1940; all the guys were pretty sure what their immediate futures would hold. One classmate was a very fine musician–so he enlisted in the Navy & was sent to their music school. He was assigned to the band on the USS Arizona. [There’s a middle school named after him](http://shaw.pasadenaisd.org/cms/One.aspx?portalId=60953&pageId=30750786). ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2016, 7:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vietnam-war-why-werent-conscripts-drafted-into-the-navy-or-the-air-force/698464/62 "2016-10-15T07:40:30Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Particularly during WWII, I believed that one could not be drafted into the Marines. This was initially true. It was a source of pride for the Marines that they were an all volunteer force. That changed with Executive Order 9279 on Dec. 5, 1942. After that, if you were of draft age, you couldn’t volunteer for a specific branch of the military, and all branches pulled from the same pool of draftees and volunteers. Even though officially the Marines were supposed to just get random recruits like everyone else, everyone knew that the Marines only wanted people who wanted to be Marines, so the local draft boards often went out of their way to send them men who wanted to volunteer for the Marines. There were still some men who got drafted into the Marines just from the luck of the draw, though. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2016, 7:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vietnam-war-why-werent-conscripts-drafted-into-the-navy-or-the-air-force/698464/63 "2016-10-15T07:45:47Z")
> [@robert\_columbia](#): > > The Army and Marines do need some tank mechanics, auto and truck mechanics, logistics specialists, field medics, and radiomen. And cooks, and intelligence analysts and MP’s and accountants etc etc. Isn’t there something like 8 support jobs for every one infantry man (in theatre anyway) ? > **[List of United States Army careers](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_Army_careers)** > > The United States Army uses various personnel management systems to classify soldiers in different specialties which they receive specialized and formal training on once they have successfully completed Basic Combat Training (BCT). > Enlisted soldiers are categorized by their assigned job called a Military Occupational Specialty (MOS). MOS are labeled with a short alphanumerical code called a military occupational core specialty code (MOSC), which consists of a two-digit number appended by a Lat... ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2016, 7:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vietnam-war-why-werent-conscripts-drafted-into-the-navy-or-the-air-force/698464/64 "2016-10-15T07:46:24Z")
> [@Corry\_El](#): > > After December 1942 it was generally not possible to volunteer directly for any of the US services. Rather you’d wait to be drafted, since individual volunteers had created too much trouble sorting out who was best fit to serve in which capacity, and getting enough men for the Army in particular. However most inductees into the Marines had been given the chance to select their service after being drafted and had chosen the Marines. In fact many were allowed to be discharged as inductees then re-enlist voluntarily. 17 yr olds were also allowed to volunteer directly without being drafted. So most WWII Marines were at least quasi-volunteers. If you were of draft age (18 to 37), you couldn’t volunteer. If you were outside the draft age range but were still eligible for military service, you could still volunteer. The Marines were supposed to pull from the same draftee pool as all of the other branches of the military. However, everyone knew that the Marines only wanted people who wanted to be Marines, so the local draft boards often went out of their way to only send them men who wanted to be Marines. ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2016, 8:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vietnam-war-why-werent-conscripts-drafted-into-the-navy-or-the-air-force/698464/65 "2016-10-15T08:09:37Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > Isn’t there something like 8 support jobs for every one infantry man (in theatre anyway) ? I was poking around on google and found this (warning, pdf). It’s basically about 120 pages of statistics related to ratios of combat to support and all other sorts of info. The Other End of the Spear: The Tooth-to-Tail Ratio (T3R) in Modern Military Operations [http://usacac.army.mil/cac2/cgsc/carl/download/csipubs/mcgrath\_op23.pdf](http://usacac.army.mil/cac2/cgsc/carl/download/csipubs/mcgrath_op23.pdf) On page 65, it has a chart that lists the ratio of combat troops to the entire army, which has the following info: WWI 28% WWII 19% Korea 7.5% Vietnam 7.2% Cold War 1974 6.5% Kuwait 1991 17% Iraq 2005 11% In theater, the ratio of combat troops tends to be higher (as you’d expect). For example, there’s a pie chart on page 42 that shows Kuwait 1991 with 30% combat, 42% logistics/life support, and 28% HQ/Admin. ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2016, 8:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vietnam-war-why-werent-conscripts-drafted-into-the-navy-or-the-air-force/698464/66 "2016-10-15T08:40:10Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > German submariners probably had it the worst, clocking a sweet 13% going-back-home rate. Another 13% got captured. The remaining 75% (3 out of 4 poor schmucks) ? **Job interview with Davy Jones**. Surely - _der Meeresgrund_😃 ---
**Author:** ![Navy\_draftee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ec9cab/32.png) [@Navy\_draftee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Navy_draftee)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2016, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vietnam-war-why-werent-conscripts-drafted-into-the-navy-or-the-air-force/698464/67 "2016-10-15T20:16:12Z")
> [@Amberlei](#): > > I think your answer lies with the Navy and Air Force having more selective standards. Being able to be highly selective means that they had a broad pool of wannabe enlistees to do their selection from, thus they were able to recruit enough people to meet their needs without having to resort to drafting. The Navy did NOT reach its recruitment goals and had to resort to drafting in the mid 60’s ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2016, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vietnam-war-why-werent-conscripts-drafted-into-the-navy-or-the-air-force/698464/68 "2016-10-15T20:41:28Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Wouldn’t the Navy have been more safe during the Vietnam War? Pretty much, unless you were a Seal, assigned to the Swiftboat force, or were a Seabee (probably in that order). Actually, being on a Swift was probably the most dangerous of the three. As a Seabee, I was on the ground, but assigned to a Marine rear echelon supply base. Even so, we had four or five guys that were WIA in a rocket attack. Not all Seabees were in the rear, of course. A lot of them worked at forward bases, building helo pads and other facilities. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2016, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vietnam-war-why-werent-conscripts-drafted-into-the-navy-or-the-air-force/698464/69 "2016-10-16T03:06:03Z")
> [@Corry\_El](#): > > 24,511 Marines were killed of 669,100 serving in WWII, 3.7%; Thanks, Corry El, I had thought it was much higher. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2016, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vietnam-war-why-werent-conscripts-drafted-into-the-navy-or-the-air-force/698464/70 "2016-10-16T03:20:28Z")
Somehow I managed to leave out Navy pilots as an at-risk group. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2016, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vietnam-war-why-werent-conscripts-drafted-into-the-navy-or-the-air-force/698464/71 "2016-10-16T03:37:36Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Somehow I managed to leave out Navy pilots as an at-risk group. Was McCain senior to everyone in the POW prison, or just the Navy fliers? ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2016, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vietnam-war-why-werent-conscripts-drafted-into-the-navy-or-the-air-force/698464/72 "2016-10-16T14:11:43Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Was McCain senior to everyone in the POW prison, or just the Navy fliers? No idea. He was kept in isolation for at least two years, and was moved around to other camps during his capture. He was a Lieutenant Commander (O-4 or Major in other services) when captured, but there were a lot of men of that rank who were imprisoned. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2016, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vietnam-war-why-werent-conscripts-drafted-into-the-navy-or-the-air-force/698464/73 "2016-10-16T14:34:33Z")
The key to McCain’s treatment (and of his valor) was that his father was Commander-in-Chief, Pacific. A mind-boggling ransom. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2016, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vietnam-war-why-werent-conscripts-drafted-into-the-navy-or-the-air-force/698464/74 "2016-10-16T14:43:07Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > The key to McCain’s treatment (and of his valor) was that his father was Commander-in-Chief, Pacific. A mind-boggling ransom. Didn’t he refuse release because the other prisoners wouldn’t also be released? Thank you both. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2016, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vietnam-war-why-werent-conscripts-drafted-into-the-navy-or-the-air-force/698464/75 "2016-10-16T16:34:22Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Didn’t he refuse release because the other prisoners wouldn’t also be released? > > Thank you both. Yes, and it resulted in even more brutal torture. There is an extensive Wiki article about his capture and imprisonment. For Trump to say that his actions weren’t heroic is reprehensible, as he suffered grievous injuries that were aggravated by the torture. While he was finally broken, he recovered his courage and refused to break a second time. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2016, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vietnam-war-why-werent-conscripts-drafted-into-the-navy-or-the-air-force/698464/76 "2016-10-16T16:42:45Z")
Just wanted to drop a note. Thank you all for serving whether by choice or strong suggestion 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2016, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vietnam-war-why-werent-conscripts-drafted-into-the-navy-or-the-air-force/698464/77 "2016-10-16T22:05:16Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Yes, and it resulted in even more brutal torture. There is an extensive Wiki article about his capture and imprisonment. For Trump to say that his actions weren’t heroic is reprehensible, as he suffered grievous injuries that were aggravated by the torture. While he was finally broken, he recovered his courage and refused to break a second time. In my opinion, Trump is an ass. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2016, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vietnam-war-why-werent-conscripts-drafted-into-the-navy-or-the-air-force/698464/78 "2016-10-17T01:48:04Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > In my opinion, Trump is an ass. Now there’s a controversial opinion. I doubt you’ll find many on this forum who will agree with you. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2016, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vietnam-war-why-werent-conscripts-drafted-into-the-navy-or-the-air-force/698464/79 "2016-10-17T02:34:50Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > Now there’s a controversial opinion. I doubt you’ll find many on this forum who will agree with you. As I said, in my opinion. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2016, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vietnam-war-why-werent-conscripts-drafted-into-the-navy-or-the-air-force/698464/80 "2016-10-17T02:39:08Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > In my opinion, Trump is an ass. **Moderator Note** Political jabs are not permitted in General Questions. No warning issued, but don’t do this again. Colibri General Questions Moderator [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vietnam-war-why-werent-conscripts-drafted-into-the-navy-or-the-air-force/698464.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vietnam-war-why-werent-conscripts-drafted-into-the-navy-or-the-air-force/698464.md?page=5)