# Viewing my own death through a pet fish's death
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/viewing-my-own-death-through-a-pet-fishs-death/474377
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [November 25, 2008, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/viewing-my-own-death-through-a-pet-fishs-death/474377 "2008-11-25T03:10:57Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@petew83](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/petew83)
#### Post date: [November 25, 2008, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/viewing-my-own-death-through-a-pet-fishs-death/474377/1 "2008-11-25T03:10:57Z")
So my betta fish died the other day, and it made me wonder. What is the difference between him dying and me dying? I didn’t get the impression of an afterlife from his dead body. Mainly it just seemed like his brain stopped working and his personal identity was gone forever. Kind of scary, but I suppose there’re different ways of looking at it. Any thoughts on this appraisal? So far the best explanation I’ve heard about death is something like “Being dead is similar to being pre-born”.
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### Author:  [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)
#### Post date: [November 25, 2008, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/viewing-my-own-death-through-a-pet-fishs-death/474377/2 "2008-11-25T03:57:42Z")
> [@petew83](#):
>
> So my betta fish died the other day, and it made me wonder. What is the difference between him dying and me dying?
A bigger corpse.
> [@](#):
>
> I didn’t get the impression of an afterlife from his dead body. Mainly it just seemed like his brain stopped working and his personal identity was gone forever. Kind of scary, but I suppose there’re different ways of looking at it. Any thoughts on this appraisal? So far the best explanation I’ve heard about death is something like “Being dead is similar to being pre-born”.
I used to be really afraid of death, but then I heard about the Epicurean philosophy and found it to be oddly comforting.
> [@Wikipedia](#):
>
> Epicurus also believed (contra Aristotle) that death was not to be feared. When a man dies, he does not feel the pain of death because he no longer is and he therefore feels nothing. Therefore, as Epicurus famously said, “death is nothing to us.” When we exist death is not, and when death exists we are not. All sensation and consciousness ends with death and therefore in death there is neither pleasure nor pain. The fear of death arises from the false belief that in death there is awareness.
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### Author:  [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)
#### Post date: [November 25, 2008, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/viewing-my-own-death-through-a-pet-fishs-death/474377/3 "2008-11-25T04:07:23Z")
Death is like flipping a light switch.
_Click_
You’re gone.
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### Author:  [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)
#### Post date: [November 25, 2008, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/viewing-my-own-death-through-a-pet-fishs-death/474377/4 "2008-11-25T04:35:19Z")
If there were an afterlife, would you expect to get an impression of it from looking at a dead fish? Or, for that matter, from looking at a dead human?
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### Author:  [@SSG\_Schwartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SSG_Schwartz)
#### Post date: [November 25, 2008, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/viewing-my-own-death-through-a-pet-fishs-death/474377/5 "2008-11-25T05:30:51Z")
To my mind, there is no way to understand your own death. You can understand the death of other living things, as you said, “his brain stopped working and his personal identity was gone forever.”
That is death in another living thing. To understand your own death, you have to understand that you are not a part of it. Try to imagine what is outside the Universe. Clear your mind and think of nothing. Not your perception of nothing, but nothing at all. You can’t do it, I would think, because all of your perceptions involve your senses.
As some some person said in one time or another, “I think, therefore I am.” Death is the loss of “I am.” You can try to imagine another person’s reaction to your death. You may even think about what the world would be like without you, but at the moment of death you have as much perception of your death as the rock that will become your headstone.
Creepy? Sorry.
SSG Schwartz
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### Author:  [@JonScribe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JonScribe)
#### Post date: [November 25, 2008, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/viewing-my-own-death-through-a-pet-fishs-death/474377/6 "2008-11-25T05:59:43Z")
> [@petew83](#):
>
> What is the difference between him dying and me dying?
You won’t be flushed down the loo.
But to answer your question: If there is something of an afterlife following physical death, it’s obviously not visible as something leaving the body. So, I’m not sure what you expected inspection of your fish’s corpse to reveal.
Being that I don’t believe it’s possible to prove or disprove the existence of an afterlife, I don’t take the condition of a dead body as evidence either way.
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### Author:  [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)
#### Post date: [November 25, 2008, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/viewing-my-own-death-through-a-pet-fishs-death/474377/7 "2008-11-25T06:02:59Z")
> [@Blalron](#):
>
> I used to be really afraid of death, but then I heard about the Epicurean philosophy and found it to be oddly comforting.
How is that comforting? Somehow that is worse than excrutiating pain to me.
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### Author:  [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)
#### Post date: [November 25, 2008, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/viewing-my-own-death-through-a-pet-fishs-death/474377/8 "2008-11-25T06:45:28Z")
> [@mswas](#):
>
> How is that comforting? Somehow that is worse than excrutiating pain to me.
How can something be bad that has no bad effects? You can’t experience the badness of death. So long as you’re alive to think about death, you’re alive and not dead. You’re simply projecting yourself onto a future scenerio where you can’t be. What’s there to be afraid of?
On the other hand, it not good either. Being dead also precludes any happiness. But nothingness is better than the eternal torment that some religions have unbelivers being cast into in order to blackmail them into believing.
I think of death with neither fear nor hope. It’s better to just concentrate on life, because this is the only life I’ve got.
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### Author:  [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)
#### Post date: [November 25, 2008, 7:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/viewing-my-own-death-through-a-pet-fishs-death/474377/9 "2008-11-25T07:46:00Z")
> [@mswas](#):
>
> How is that comforting? Somehow that is worse than excrutiating pain to me.
Hence the reason humans invented religion.
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### Author:  [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)
#### Post date: [November 25, 2008, 7:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/viewing-my-own-death-through-a-pet-fishs-death/474377/10 "2008-11-25T07:55:15Z")
> [@Blalron](#):
>
> How can something be bad that has no bad effects? You can’t experience the badness of death. So long as you’re alive to think about death, you’re alive and not dead. You’re simply projecting yourself onto a future scenerio where you can’t be. What’s there to be afraid of?
Because the event that causes one to cease to exist is the worst of all possible scenarios. What happens after is not relevant to you at the time, but if you want to continue to exist, then it is a horrible thing to complicate.
> [@](#):
>
> On the other hand, it not good either. Being dead also precludes any happiness. But nothingness is better than the eternal torment that some religions have unbelivers being cast into in order to blackmail them into believing.
Right, well there is a difference between being irrationally fearful of death throughout your life and finding the notion of a cessation of existance to not be comforting.
> [@](#):
>
> I think of death with neither fear nor hope. It’s better to just concentrate on life, because this is the only life I’ve got.
Fair enough. But the operative word was ‘comforting’. Remember, there is likely that moment before cessation of existance where you feel, ‘holy shit, I am about to stop existing.’
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### Author:  [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)
#### Post date: [November 25, 2008, 8:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/viewing-my-own-death-through-a-pet-fishs-death/474377/11 "2008-11-25T08:55:05Z")
Death involves the concept of linear time. You just think the fish is dead.
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### Author:  [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)
#### Post date: [November 25, 2008, 10:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/viewing-my-own-death-through-a-pet-fishs-death/474377/12 "2008-11-25T10:16:57Z")
> [@Magiver](#):
>
> Death involves the concept of linear time. You just think the fish is dead.
What about those of us that buy into the Judeo-Christian eschatological time?
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### Author:  [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)
#### Post date: [November 25, 2008, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/viewing-my-own-death-through-a-pet-fishs-death/474377/13 "2008-11-25T16:05:40Z")
> [@petew83](#):
>
> What is the difference between him dying and me dying?
There’s more meat on you.
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### Author:  [@Hi\_Neighbor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hi_Neighbor)
#### Post date: [November 25, 2008, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/viewing-my-own-death-through-a-pet-fishs-death/474377/14 "2008-11-25T16:48:06Z")
> [@petew83](#):
>
> What is the difference between him dying and me dying?
Really no difference what so ever. You are both animals, and you both will cease to exist one day.
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### Author:  [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)
#### Post date: [November 25, 2008, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/viewing-my-own-death-through-a-pet-fishs-death/474377/15 "2008-11-25T17:03:32Z")
> [@mswas](#):
>
> Fair enough. But the operative word was ‘comforting’. Remember, there is likely that moment before cessation of existance where you feel, ‘holy shit, I am about to stop existing.’
A Zen master is meditating in a deserted monastary. Deserted because some samurai have invaded the village. A samurai comes up to the zen master, puts a sword to his neck and says “You know, I can cut off you head without batting an eye.” The Zen Master replies “And I could have my head cut off without batting an eye.” The Samurai immediately bows down and calls him master. 😃
That’s the type of attitude I try to cultivate. 😃
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### Author:  [@hotflungwok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hotflungwok)
#### Post date: [November 25, 2008, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/viewing-my-own-death-through-a-pet-fishs-death/474377/16 "2008-11-25T17:42:59Z")
> [@mswas](#):
>
> Fair enough. But the operative word was ‘comforting’. Remember, there is likely that moment before cessation of existance where you feel, ‘holy shit, I am about to stop existing.’
Which is better, making telling people believe things that are comforting, or teaching people to deal with reality?
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### Author:  [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)
#### Post date: [November 25, 2008, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/viewing-my-own-death-through-a-pet-fishs-death/474377/17 "2008-11-25T17:54:39Z")
> [@hotflungwok](#):
>
> Which is better, making telling people believe things that are comforting, or teaching people to deal with reality?
How is this relevant to the discussion?
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### Author:  [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)
#### Post date: [November 25, 2008, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/viewing-my-own-death-through-a-pet-fishs-death/474377/18 "2008-11-25T17:57:02Z")
> [@Blalron](#):
>
> A Zen master is meditating in a deserted monastary. Deserted because some samurai have invaded the village. A samurai comes up to the zen master, puts a sword to his neck and says “You know, I can cut off you head without batting an eye.” The Zen Master replies “And I could have my head cut off without batting an eye.” The Samurai immediately bows down and calls him master. 😃
>
> That’s the type of attitude I try to cultivate. 😃
It’s an admirable trait to be certain. But that is still different from being comforted by the notion of non-existance. 😉
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### Author:  [@Hi\_Neighbor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hi_Neighbor)
#### Post date: [November 25, 2008, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/viewing-my-own-death-through-a-pet-fishs-death/474377/19 "2008-11-25T18:14:06Z")
> [@Santo\_Rugger](#):
>
> Hence the reason humans invented religion.
One of the reasons. The other to control the people. Religion keeps people content, in a way.
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### Author:  [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)
#### Post date: [November 25, 2008, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/viewing-my-own-death-through-a-pet-fishs-death/474377/20 "2008-11-25T18:22:38Z")
> [@Hi\_Neighbor](#):
>
> One of the reasons. The other to control the people. Religion keeps people content, in a way.
What is amusing about this idea is it presupposes an intellectual elite capable of creating a complex control mechanism to control the rest of humanity in some great antiquity.
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