# Vikings in India? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 18, 2003, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vikings-in-india/202259 "2003-09-18T00:58:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2014, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vikings-in-india/202259/41 "2014-02-11T22:07:06Z")
The Byzantine empire had extensive contact with the Viking world, as demonstrated by the (v interesting IMO) [Varangian Guard](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varangian_Guard), not to mention their conflicts with the Viking descended [the Normans](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byzantine%E2%80%93Norman_wars). They also traded with India and Asia [extensively](http://archiv.ub.uni-heidelberg.de/ojs/index.php/transcultural/article/view/7290/2982). So it would seem quite unremarkable to me that Viking artifacts could end up Asia that way, and would not by Vikings reaching India. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2014, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vikings-in-india/202259/42 "2014-02-11T22:19:55Z")
Considering the Marco Polo described German engineers in China, along with other Europeans; and considering how far afield the Vikings roamed; I would consider it a near certainty that some Vikings visited India. ---
**Author:** ![WoodPecker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/5e9695/32.png) [@WoodPecker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WoodPecker)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2015, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vikings-in-india/202259/43 "2015-01-10T21:18:59Z")
National Geographic had a documentary that re-traced a boat route taken by Alexander the Great. They had to portage from the Don R to Volga R, but 2,000yrs ago, it was possible to take a river from Caspian to Bactria and the Himalayas. From there, they could take the Indus R to the Indian Ocean. ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2015, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vikings-in-india/202259/44 "2015-01-11T08:03:35Z")
> [@WoodPecker](#): > > National Geographic had a documentary that re-traced a boat route taken by Alexander the Great. They had to portage from the Don R to Volga R, but 2,000yrs ago, it was possible to take a river from Caspian to Bactria and the Himalayas. From there, they could take the Indus R to the Indian Ocean. Except that there’s a massive mountain range (Hindu Kush) separating Bactria from the Indus River. ---
**Author:** ![vontsira](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/51bf81/32.png) [@vontsira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vontsira)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2015, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vikings-in-india/202259/45 "2015-01-11T11:07:03Z")
> [@WaryEri](#): > > Hmm. **So I suppose the tale of an “Indian Emporer” who hired all Viking body guards because they had no other local loyalties** is probably not going to hold up under scruteny, either? > > I’ll see if I can get some cites for where these fellas came up with this “theory”. > [@ftg](#): > > Norsemen were routinely hired as royal guards throughout Europe. From England to Byzantium. They were mercenaries you could trust. > > But not India. With this thread having been resurrected – the Indian Emperor with his Viking bodyguards is an ideas which I admit, delights me. I’ll bet that Harry Turtledove, in his history / fantasy fiction, could make something of this one. His “Videssos”, universe, the setting of many of his novels, is basically a fantasised version of one-time Byzantium (= the land of Videssos itself) and its neighbours: including Norsemen / Viking “be-alikes”, valued as hard-to-corrupt palace guards / mercenaries (as with real-world Byzantium, above). I’m sure Harry would have little trouble in expanding this milieu of his to include India, and its emperor’s Norse guardsmen; he’d find some work-around for getting said folk to India – after all, in the Videssos universe magic is an omnipresent and everyday thing. ---
**Author:** ![TSBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/77aa72/32.png) [@TSBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TSBG)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2015, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vikings-in-india/202259/46 "2015-01-12T00:34:39Z")
Could fair-skinned, light-eyed Indians be descendants of Alexander’s army? I know there are fair-skinned, green-eyed, redheaded Afghans–there was that girl on the Nat Geo cover, and the mother of Malala Yousufzai looks like this also. Maybe the friend of the long-ago OP’s boyfriend was confusing Macedonians with Vikings. ---
**Author:** ![am77494](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d2c977/32.png) [@am77494](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/am77494)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2015, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vikings-in-india/202259/47 "2015-01-12T02:25:06Z")
> [@TSBG](#): > > Could fair-skinned, light-eyed Indians be descendants of Alexander’s army? The gene for fair skin in India is ([cite](http://www.popsci.com/article/science/how-gene-fair-skin-spread-across-india)) : \*…associated with people’s languages, specific geographic areas, and ancestry. For example, Brahmins, no matter where they’re from in India, tend to have allele A. Another example: In one South Indian group, the Saurashtrians, 70 percent of people have allele A. \* IIRC Indians and Europeans have the same ancestry as evidenced by the [Indo-European Languages](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4f/IndoEuropeanTree.svg). I think you looked at fair skinned people in India and jumped to the conclusion that they must have European (Greek in this case) ancestry - nothing new there. There are two controversial theories that account for Indian/European similarity (specifically language) : [Indigenous Aryans](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indigenous_Aryans) and [Indo-Aryan migration hypothesis](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Aryan_migration_hypothesis) ---
**Author:** ![Nelson\_Pike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Nelson\_Pike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nelson_Pike)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2015, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vikings-in-india/202259/48 "2015-01-12T03:56:19Z")
> [@WoodPecker](#): > > National Geographic had a documentary that re-traced a boat route taken by Alexander the Great. They had to portage from the Don R to Volga R, but 2,000yrs ago, it was possible to take a river from Caspian to Bactria and the Himalayas. From there, they could take the Indus R to the Indian Ocean. There is some serious confusion somewhere because AG never went anywhere near the Don or Volga rivers. The ancient Greeks did have colonies from about 600-500BC until Roman times on the north shores of the Black Sea, and probably traded on the rivers. I don’t know when those colonies died out, but I think the poet Ovid was exiled to the Crimea during the reign of Augustus, when the area was still Greek, but under Roman control. PS there is no river connecting the Caspian Sea with Bactria. The Aral Sea yes, I think. ---
**Author:** ![Nelson\_Pike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Nelson\_Pike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nelson_Pike)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2015, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vikings-in-india/202259/49 "2015-01-12T03:58:09Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Considering the Marco Polo described German engineers in China, along with other Europeans; and considering how far afield the Vikings roamed; I would consider it a near certainty that some Vikings visited India. Germans in Marco Polo China? That one really needs a cite. ---
**Author:** ![TSBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/77aa72/32.png) [@TSBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TSBG)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2015, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vikings-in-india/202259/50 "2015-01-12T05:05:04Z")
> [@am77494](#): > > The gene for fair skin in India is ([cite](http://www.popsci.com/article/science/how-gene-fair-skin-spread-across-india)) : > > \*…associated with people’s languages, specific geographic areas, and ancestry. For example, Brahmins, no matter where they’re from in India, tend to have allele A. Another example: In one South Indian group, the Saurashtrians, 70 percent of people have allele A. \* > > IIRC Indians and Europeans have the same ancestry as evidenced by the [Indo-European Languages](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4f/IndoEuropeanTree.svg). > > I think you looked at fair skinned people in India and jumped to the conclusion that they must have European (Greek in this case) ancestry - nothing new there. There are two controversial theories that account for Indian/European similarity (specifically language) : [Indigenous Aryans](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indigenous_Aryans) and [Indo-Aryan migration hypothesis](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Aryan_migration_hypothesis) Thanks, that is interesting–but it doesn’t _necessarily_ disprove my suggestion…however, I’m certainly not going to die on a hill defending it. The reason I madeit at all is that I had a memory of reading something about the lingering genetic legacy of Alexander in lands he attacked. Here’s something from Wiki, not especially convincing, but possibly interesting: [Legacy of the Indo-Greeks - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legacy_of_the_Indo-Greeks#Genetic_contribution) Also, while Miss India in your link clearly looks different from the darker-skinned Indians pictured there, she also looks different from the Nat Geo “Afghan girl” (Sharbat Gula), seen here at 13? and 30?: [http://photography.nationalgeographic.com/photography/enlarge/afghan-girl-before-after\_pod\_image.html](http://photography.nationalgeographic.com/photography/enlarge/afghan-girl-before-after_pod_image.html) And Malala’s mother (scroll down): [http://www.aquila-style.com/focus-points/mightymuslimah/malala-peace-move-nobel-win-indias-satyarthi/82055/](http://www.aquila-style.com/focus-points/mightymuslimah/malala-peace-move-nobel-win-indias-satyarthi/82055/) ---
**Author:** ![Peanuthead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peanuthead/32/360_2.png) [@Peanuthead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peanuthead)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2015, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vikings-in-india/202259/51 "2015-01-12T05:18:35Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > You can’t go east from Constantinople and get to India in a boat, though, and the Vikings weren’t big on hiking… There once was a handsome young Viking Whose feet were sore from hiking But he knew that Bombay was so far away Perhaps the young Viking tried biking ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2015, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vikings-in-india/202259/52 "2015-01-12T05:20:00Z")
> [@TSBG](#): > > Could fair-skinned, light-eyed Indians be descendants of Alexander’s army? I know there are fair-skinned, green-eyed, redheaded Afghans–there was that girl on the Nat Geo cover, and the mother of Malala Yousufzai looks like this also. Maybe the friend of the long-ago OP’s boyfriend was confusing Macedonians with Vikings. What makes you think those genes need to be from somewhere else instead of just being part of the local gene pool, only in lower frequencies than found to the north? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2015, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vikings-in-india/202259/53 "2015-01-12T05:36:51Z")
Also, it’s not as if the ancient Greeks were all that pale. They were certainly much darker than modern Greeks, who’ve been interacting with the Slavs for over 1000 years. ---
**Author:** ![TSBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/77aa72/32.png) [@TSBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TSBG)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2015, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vikings-in-india/202259/54 "2015-01-12T06:11:01Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > What makes you think those genes need to be from somewhere else instead of just being part of the local gene pool, only in lower frequencies than found to the north? Maybe they’re not, and the physical characteristics I’m pointing out are really no more astonishing than black-haired Irishmen, ie normal population variation. However, the Poles–I’m picking a European country at random–don’t have a minority population of long standing who vary as significantly in appearance, do they? There’s really nothing sinister in wondering if people of different physical appearance might have different ancestors. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2015, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vikings-in-india/202259/55 "2015-01-12T06:54:17Z")
Dont forget people travelled even in ancient times so maybe some Indian did visit Scandinavia, saw some ruins, and then went back to India and drew them? ---
**Author:** ![am77494](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d2c977/32.png) [@am77494](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/am77494)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2015, 10:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vikings-in-india/202259/56 "2015-01-12T10:44:00Z")
I am of Indian origin and am not aware of Viking presence (or not presence) in India. I want to point out though that Jews made it to India (and lived anti-semitism free all through history ) with the earliest arrival during the [Kingdom of Judah](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_India). If the Jews could make it - the Vikings could too - unless there was a technical disadvantage. ---
**Author:** ![Quercus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7ab992/32.png) [@Quercus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quercus)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2015, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vikings-in-india/202259/57 "2015-01-12T15:18:24Z")
> [@vontsira](#): > > With this thread having been resurrected – the Indian Emperor with his Viking bodyguards is an ideas which I admit, delights me. I’ll bow to the authority of anyone who actually knows something about the Byzantine era and India in that time, but it doesn’t seem that crazy an idea to me (much less crazy than the idea of Viking boats in India). After alll, Emperors & Kings in many times and places have shown a preference for foreign bodyguards (ideally semi-barbarians), as they tend to be more loyal. I’m not sure how much contact there really was between India and the Byzantines, but I can imagine an Indian ruler sending someone to Byzantium to recruit some good bodyguards. And we know that lots of more-or-less Vikings were serving as bodyguards in Byzantium at various times, so it’s completely plausible a small group could have been hired to go farther east. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2015, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vikings-in-india/202259/58 "2015-01-12T15:44:16Z")
> [@TSBG](#): > > Maybe they’re not, and the physical characteristics I’m pointing out are really no more astonishing than black-haired Irishmen, ie normal population variation. However, the Poles–I’m picking a European country at random–don’t have a minority population of long standing who vary as significantly in appearance, do they? There’s really nothing sinister in wondering if people of different physical appearance might have different ancestors. India doesn’t have a minority population of long standing with light hair and eyes, either. Light eyes are not unknown among Kashmiri folk, but they’re not unknown elsewhere in India either. Among a billion people you’re likely to see quite a lot of diversity. > [@am77494](#): > > I am of Indian origin and am not aware of Viking presence (or not presence) in India. I want to point out though that Jews made it to India (and lived anti-semitism free all through history ) with the earliest arrival during the [Kingdom of Judah](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_India). If the Jews could make it - the Vikings could too - unless there was a technical disadvantage. You mean _other_ than the extra 5,000 miles or so they’d already have traveled to get to the Middle East? In any case, it’s nearly certain that the ancestors of the Cochin and other Jewish communities in India arrived by ship and not overland. ---
**Author:** ![am77494](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d2c977/32.png) [@am77494](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/am77494)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2015, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vikings-in-india/202259/59 "2015-01-12T18:22:00Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Among a billion people you’re likely to see quite a lot of diversity. Are you asserting that larger populations imply larger diversities ? If so, please provide a cite. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2015, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vikings-in-india/202259/60 "2015-01-12T18:52:17Z")
> [@TSBG](#): > > Maybe they’re not, and the physical characteristics I’m pointing out are really no more astonishing than black-haired Irishmen, ie normal population variation. However, the Poles–I’m picking a European country at random–don’t have a minority population of long standing who vary as significantly in appearance, do they? There’s really nothing sinister in wondering if people of different physical appearance might have different ancestors. Allele frequency varies clinally, so there is nothing remarkable about a scattering of blue or green eyed Indians. No more so than seeing brown eyes in Poland or Sweden. Could it be Vikings? Sure. But there is no need to invoke a recent outside source for allele variation. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vikings-in-india/202259.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vikings-in-india/202259.md?page=4)