# Vikings in New Zealand **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 8, 2003, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vikings-in-new-zealand/200185 "2003-09-08T00:28:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2003, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vikings-in-new-zealand/200185/41 "2003-09-08T20:01:40Z")
> [@](#): > > It’s the ultimate taboo and accusations should be made very carefully. Bunkum. In Western culture it is taboo, but other cultures are different. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2003, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vikings-in-new-zealand/200185/42 "2003-09-08T21:04:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by The Gaspode \* > pinches self: > > Nope. I’m real, I’m here. We didn’t disappear at all. Still around a 1000 years later. > We got religion, though, i.e. turned from Norse (misnomer) gods to the Christian god. I rather suspect **Not in Anger** was referring to the Greenland colony, not Scandinavians in general :). > [@](#): > > And while we’re at it, a chance for me to debunk my pet peves: > 2. They were not berserks or **warriors** ( emphasis added ) Uhh…You did mean to say they were not _all_ warriors, yes? Otherwise, I might dispute with you just a tad. Afterall, I’m not entirely sure I’d chalk up Aethelred the Unready’s downfall purely to aggressive Danish trading practices ;). - Tamerlane ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Tan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/charlie_tan/32/12582_2.png) [@Charlie\_Tan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Tan)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2003, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vikings-in-new-zealand/200185/43 "2003-09-08T22:55:18Z")
**Tamerlane**. Yes of course there were _some_ warriors. It’s just that the stereotype is very… um… stereotypical . It’s on par with Native-Americans saying ‘How!’ and ‘Ugh’, all Japanese being fierce Samurai, asf. Not that we suffer from the stereotype, per se. But we are fighting ignorance here. Up next - we continue the debate about cannibalism. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2003, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vikings-in-new-zealand/200185/44 "2003-09-09T00:16:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tapioca Dextrin \* > Can you point me to a source which I can look at? If there is evidence, can you present it? [Sorry to be late with this response - the SDMB has been very slow today, and reluctant to accept posts.] My source is the writings of James Cook. His definitive biography is probably _The Life of Captain James Cook_ by J.C. Beaglehole. Cook and a number of others on his voyages who kept journals make frequent mention of cannibalism in NZ. They were not describing a single incident, but many. Modern historians should feel compelled to advance theories that cover the existing evidence. Either cannibalism existed in NZ at the time of Cook’s voyages, or he and others were engaged in a remarkably elaborate conspiracy to falsely suggest that it did. Since Cook has otherwise been shown to be an extremely reliable observer, this would be a challenging theory to pursue. You have implied that you find 200+ year-old first-hand observations dubious on account of their age. I’m puzzled by this. In considering what took place 200+ years ago, what better source might we hope to find? Are we to consider something written, say, 50 years ago inherently more accurate? ---
**Author:** ![Not\_In\_Anger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/3ab097/32.png) [@Not\_In\_Anger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Not_In_Anger)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2003, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vikings-in-new-zealand/200185/45 "2003-09-09T00:33:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by N9IWP \* > \*\*Didn’t the Vikings get surprisingly far south tho (Mediterrian I think, or maybe to Sierra Leonne??) > > Brian \*\* Yeah, they did. My understanding is that there were three different distinct kinds of Viking, roughly corresponding to the three nation-states currently existing. The “Swedes” followed the river system down into Russia and the Ukraine, establishing a commercial empire and the roots of civilization there. The “Danes” were the stereotypical helmet-horned guys who sailed to Britain and Ireland, started colonies in northern France, sailed past Spain and into the Mediteranean, etc. And partied like dogs the whole time. The “Norwegians” were the ones ocean-going westward who colonized the Hebrides, the Orkney Islands, Iceland and Greenland and maybe eastern Canada. Course, both the N’s and the D’s invaded Britain regularly, cuz, hey, it was just there. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2003, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vikings-in-new-zealand/200185/46 "2003-09-09T04:42:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Not In Anger \* > Yeah, they did. My understanding is that there were three different distinct kinds of Viking, roughly corresponding to the three nation-states currently existing. The “Swedes” followed the river system down into Russia and the Ukraine, establishing a commercial empire and the roots of civilization there. The “Danes” were the stereotypical helmet-horned guys who sailed to Britain and Ireland, started colonies in northern France, sailed past Spain and into the Mediteranean, etc. And partied like dogs the whole time. The “Norwegians” were the ones ocean-going westward who colonized the Hebrides, the Orkney Islands, Iceland and Greenland and maybe eastern Canada. Course, both the N’s and the D’s invaded Britain regularly, cuz, hey, it was just there. 1. No one wore horns on their helmets until big opera productions 800 years later. That’s why stereotypes are a bad thing. Hagar the Horrible doesn’t represent any actual history. 2. It was a lot more mixed than that. _Settlers_ tended to move in the directions you give, but not all and certainly quite a few did it all. Harald Hardradi was born in Norway, had to hide out in Kiev, went to work for the Emporer in Constantinople, fought from Sicily to Palenstine, went back to Norway, became king, tried unsuccessfully to become king of Denmark, launched an invasion of N. England from the Orkneys, died at Stamford bridge, thus setting up the victory for the Normans at Hastings a few days later. The Jomsburg vikings also travelled all over. The Norwegian/Danish/Swedish distinction didn’t really matter to people at the time. Norway didn’t even exist as a united country for much of the Viking Age. Part of modern Sweden was Danish, etc. It is general quite hard to determine which group came from where. The Rus who got set up in Russia may have never lived in Sweden but were Norsemen living in the Finland/Baltic states area. (There are still such “ethnic Swedes” in Finland. Something of a misnomer.) ---
**Author:** ![kiwiboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/35a633/32.png) [@kiwiboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kiwiboy)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2003, 7:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vikings-in-new-zealand/200185/47 "2003-09-09T07:51:10Z")
There’s no evidence of Vikings reaching New Zealand in longboats, because, as has been pointed out, it’s pretty much impossible for them to have travelled that far. There are some Scandanavian roots in New Zealand though: [Dannevirke and Norsewood](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dannevirke) were settled by Scandanavian settlers in the nineteenht century. ---
**Author:** ![Georg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9f8e36/32.png) [@Georg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Georg)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2012, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vikings-in-new-zealand/200185/48 "2012-04-01T01:39:13Z")
There is a Viking long boat on thee shore in the northland region of new Zealand. So yes they did reach new Zealand the authorities of new Zealand will not allow any DNA evidence to prove this. They arrived in 1100ad 200 years even before the Maoris ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2012, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vikings-in-new-zealand/200185/49 "2012-04-01T02:10:56Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Ritual cannibalism (drinking some token amount of blood, eating an enemiy’s heart or liver) has certainly appeared in various places in the world. The objection is to the notion of killing, roasting, and eating a whole human as sustenance. And I think we also need to draw a distinction between **ceremonial** cannibalism (even of a fairly substantive and, er, filling kind) and **subsistence** cannibalism. That is, it’s one thing if a society occasionally celebrates a victory over its enemies by literally feasting on their bodies. It’s quite another if a society adopts the eating of human flesh as a routine part of its standard diet, as in the old _Cosmographia universalis_ legends and such like. That latter type of cannibalism, AFAIK, is what anthropologists currently don’t consider sufficiently substantiated in any human society past or present. I know that many anthropologists are skeptical even that strictly ceremonial cannibalism has ever occurred, which seems to me a less defensible position, but AFAICT they’re quite right to say that no known human culture has ever practiced subsistence cannibalism. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2012, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vikings-in-new-zealand/200185/50 "2012-04-01T03:06:13Z")
Don’t they have Spam\* in New Zealand? How would that get there if not for (zombie) Vikings? \*The canned meatlike product, not the unwanted email advertising. ---
**Author:** ![Foggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foggy/32/1082_2.png) [@Foggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Foggy)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2012, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vikings-in-new-zealand/200185/51 "2012-04-01T03:41:24Z")
FYI: This is an 8.5 year old thread. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2012, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vikings-in-new-zealand/200185/52 "2012-04-01T03:48:02Z")
> [@Foggy](#): > > FYI: This is an 8.5 year old thread. Yes, we know. Thanks for the heads-up, though; the first-decimal-place precision is especially appreciated! ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2012, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vikings-in-new-zealand/200185/53 "2012-04-01T04:43:13Z")
> [@Foggy](#): > > FYI: This is an 8.5 year old thread. Positively Felliniesque! ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2012, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vikings-in-new-zealand/200185/54 "2012-04-01T14:32:02Z")
> [@Corn Bunting](#): > > Emphasis in second paragraph mine. > > Some people will refuse to believe the evidence, no matter how reliable and copious it is. > > There is a very large amount of evidence for cannibalism in New Zealand, both by highly reliable eye-witnesses such as Captain Cook, and in Maori tradition itself. > > [Here:](http://bmj.com/cgi/content/full/308/6933/923/a) > > [This site](http://www.heretical.com/cannibal/nzealand.html) quotes from Cook’s journals: Corn Bunting? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2012, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vikings-in-new-zealand/200185/55 "2012-04-01T15:11:40Z")
What’s with the gazzilion threads/posts about corn this weekend…? :smack: 4/1/12. I was so cornfused!! ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2012, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vikings-in-new-zealand/200185/56 "2012-04-01T16:51:31Z")
> [@Georg](#): > > There is a Viking long boat on thee shore in the northland region of new Zealand. So yes they did reach new Zealand the authorities of new Zealand will not allow any DNA evidence to prove this. They arrived in 1100ad 200 years even before the Maoris You don’t need DNA to prove this. Just show the construction of the boat is Viking rather than Polynesian and carbon date the wood to show age. You need to be careful though, I don’t think the effect of zombiism on carbon dating is well understood. ---
**Author:** ![krunen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c37758/32.png) [@krunen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/krunen)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2012, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vikings-in-new-zealand/200185/57 "2012-04-01T17:06:21Z")
> [@Georg](#): > > There is a Viking long boat on thee shore in the northland region of new Zealand. So yes they did reach new Zealand the authorities of new Zealand will not allow any DNA evidence to prove this. They arrived in 1100ad 200 years even before the Maoris I’m not going to comment on the truth-worthiness of your claim, but I’ll just practice a little peeve of mine in the interest of the general populace. Don’t write ø or ö instead of o and think it’ll impress actual Scandinavians. It’s extremely silly. The ø/ö is a totally different letter (and sound) from o. Trying to pronounce “Geørg” is about as tough-sounding as “Gearge”. And “Motörhead” sound about as smart as “Moteerhead”, only less so. The Ø/Ö is the silliest of all the Scandinavian\* vowels (and we have a lot of them!). The closest approximation in English is about like the “ehhh…” people utter when they have absolutely no clue what they are talking about. Thanks! \*) It also exists in German, Turkish and probably others, but I am uncertain about their silliness ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2012, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vikings-in-new-zealand/200185/58 "2012-04-01T17:31:12Z")
> [@krunen](#): > > I’m not going to comment on the truth-worthiness of your claim, but I’ll just practice a little peeve of mine in the interest of the general populace. > > Don’t write ø or ö instead of o and think it’ll impress actual Scandinavians. It’s extremely silly. The ø/ö is a totally different letter (and sound) from o. Trying to pronounce “Geørg” is about as tough-sounding as “Gearge”. And “Motörhead” sound about as smart as “Moteerhead”, only less so. > > The Ø/Ö is the silliest of all the Scandinavian\* vowels (and we have a lot of them!). The closest approximation in English is about like the “ehhh…” people utter when they have absolutely no clue what they are talking about. I’m glad to hear somebody else thinks this is silly too. I doggedly pronounce the name of a certain American heavy metal band more or less as “Meuhtly Creeue”, because by golly, if they’re going to write it with umlauts then I’m going to pronounce it with umlauts. If they think it sounds stupid (and yes, it certainly does), then it’s their own fault. ---
**Author:** ![FluffyBob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecb155/32.png) [@FluffyBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FluffyBob)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2012, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vikings-in-new-zealand/200185/59 "2012-04-01T19:30:10Z")
Do they think it sounds stupid? They are the real life version of Spinal Tap, except with an even more idiotic name and you are asking if a different pronunciation of their name would sound stupid? ---
**Author:** ![Steken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Steken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steken)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2012, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vikings-in-new-zealand/200185/60 "2012-04-01T20:15:55Z")
The student reads aloud in class: “Goethe was a great poet.” The teacher interrupts him: “No no no no no, in this case, when ‘o’ follows ‘e’, it should be pronounced like an ‘ö’. Got that?” “Sure did, ma’am,” says the student, and tries again: “Göthe was a great pöt.” (It’s, uh, slightly better in the original Swedish. But only slightly.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vikings-in-new-zealand/200185.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vikings-in-new-zealand/200185.md?page=4)