# Vikings in New Zealand **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 8, 2003, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vikings-in-new-zealand/200185 "2003-09-08T00:28:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![johnpost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f17d59/32.png) [@johnpost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnpost)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2013, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vikings-in-new-zealand/200185/121 "2013-04-01T15:40:30Z")
peeps or no the vikings needed warm clothes and introduced sheep to New Zealand for the wool. ---
**Author:** ![LarryM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/0ea827/32.png) [@LarryM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LarryM)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2013, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vikings-in-new-zealand/200185/122 "2013-04-01T17:04:51Z")
Vikings made it to Peru around the same time they made it to the states. They formed the Chachapoyas. The Chacahpoyas had the only steel making industry in that part of the world and made swords similar to Viking broad sword. This was lost when the Inkas invaded and assimilated their culture. There are still blond haired blue eyed Incas living there and near Paracas. The stories say that they migrated again from Paracas to all the pacific islands and on to malasia. DNA evidence supports this. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2013, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vikings-in-new-zealand/200185/123 "2013-04-01T17:33:11Z")
> [@LarryM](#): > > Vikings made it to Peru around the same time they made it to the states. They formed the Chachapoyas. The Chacahpoyas had the only steel making industry in that part of the world and made swords similar to Viking broad sword. This was lost when the Inkas invaded and assimilated their culture. There are still blond haired blue eyed Incas living there and near Paracas. The stories say that they migrated again from Paracas to all the pacific islands and on to malasia. DNA evidence supports this. Nonsense. The Chachapoyas were not even a coastal culture, they were located on the Amazonian side of the Andes. Why would a seafaring culture colonize cloud forest? The culture is known from about AD 800; this precedes by 200 years Viking discoveries in North America, and is in fact just about the time of the earliest recorded Viking raids in Europe in AD 790. How did they make it all the way to Peru before they are recorded in most of Europe? Regarding the claims they were “white,” Wiki has this to say: > [@](#): > > These comments have led to claims, not supported by Cieza de León’s chronicle, that the Chachapoyas were blond-haired and European in appearance. The chronicle’s use of the term “white” here pre-dates its emergence as a racial classification. Another Spanish author, Pedro Pizarro, described all indigenous Peruvians as “white.” Although some authors have quoted Pizarro saying that Chachapoyas were blond, these authors do not quote him directly; instead they quote remarks attributed to him and others by Nazi race scientist Jacques de Mahieu in support of his thesis that Vikings had brought civilization to the Americas.[1][2] Following up on these claims, anthropologist Inge Schjellerup examined the remains of Chachapoyans and found them consistent with other ancient Peruvians. She found, for example, a universal occurrence of shovel-shaped upper incisors and a near-complete absence of Carabelli’s cusp on upper molars — characteristics consistent with other Amerindians and inconsistent with Europeans.[3] Please provide a cite for the fact that the Chachapoya made steel swords, plus the DNA evidence you mention. ---
**Author:** ![LarryM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/0ea827/32.png) [@LarryM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LarryM)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2013, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vikings-in-new-zealand/200185/124 "2013-04-01T18:09:30Z")
Have you been there? I have. There are also many words used in the local dialect that are the same as old norse such as skegg (beard) Skip (small boat) and arn (Iron). The vikings went there off the coast into the mountains just like everyone else did. For the metals. Lots of gold and silver and good quality low sulfer iron and coal for steel making. During that era it was difficult to get steel and it was highly valued. They had a rip roaring steel industry going there for a few hundred years. The remains of the smelters are still there along with piles of slag. Go take a look for yourself. Also check out Maji in Ethiopia. It is near sudan. Quite the viking population there a thousand years ago. Lots of old norse words and viking artifacts there too. Blue eyed and straight haired people too. Long, long way from the beach. Ive been there too. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2013, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vikings-in-new-zealand/200185/125 "2013-04-01T18:39:05Z")
> [@LarryM](#): > > Have you been there? I have. I’ve spent quite a bit of time working in Peru. > [@](#): > > There are also many words used in the local dialect that are the same as old norse such as skegg (beard) Skip (small boat) and arn (Iron). Cite? The Chachapoya language is essentially extinct, so what’s your source on these words? In any case similarities between a few words in different languages can be due to coincidence and means nothing. > [@](#): > > The vikings went there off the coast into the mountains just like everyone else did. Did they go up the Amazon? If so they would have had to fight their way through thousands of miles of heavily populated territory. Or are you saying they sailed around Cape Horn or the Cape of Good Hope to the Pacific coast and then moved inland? That’s even more absurd. > [@](#): > > For the metals. Lots of gold and silver and good quality low sulfer iron and coal for steel making. > During that era it was difficult to get steel and it was highly valued. > They had a rip roaring steel industry going there for a few hundred years. The remains of the smelters are still there along with piles of slag. > Go take a look for yourself. You’re going to have to provide a cite for this besides your allegation. > [@](#): > > Also check out Maji in Ethiopia. It is near sudan. Quite the viking population there a thousand years ago. Lots of old norse words and viking artifacts there too. Blue eyed and straight haired people too. Long, long way from the beach. > Ive been there too. Again, this is going to require more than your simply claiming it’s so. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2013, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vikings-in-new-zealand/200185/126 "2013-04-01T18:39:12Z")
> [@LarryM](#): > > Have you been there? I have. There are also many words used in the local dialect that are the same as old norse such as skegg (beard) Skip (small boat) and arn (Iron). > The vikings went there off the coast into the mountains just like everyone else did. For the metals. Lots of gold and silver and good quality low sulfer iron and coal for steel making. > During that era it was difficult to get steel and it was highly valued. > They had a rip roaring steel industry going there for a few hundred years. The remains of the smelters are still there along with piles of slag. > Go take a look for yourself. > Also check out Maji in Ethiopia. It is near sudan. Quite the viking population there a thousand years ago. Lots of old norse words and viking artifacts there too. Blue eyed and straight haired people too. Long, long way from the beach. > Ive been there too. Then, this must all be well documented somewhere. Can you link to the documentation? ---
**Author:** ![LarryM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/0ea827/32.png) [@LarryM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LarryM)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2013, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vikings-in-new-zealand/200185/127 "2013-04-01T21:09:22Z")
Things are being documented every day. Take a look at this article. Newly discovered 2010. Chachapoya village. [archaeologydaily.com domain name is for sale. Inquire now.](http://www.archaeologydaily.com/news/201009165074/New-Chachapoyan-archaeological-site-discovered.html) (Note the same Viking roundhouse design) However the locals have known about it forever. But as far as you know it has just been discovered. Just because someone hasn’t written about it doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. I have many photos. Ill see what I can find that shows you what you want to know. But if you really want to know. Just go. Im sure that you will just say the photos are photo shopped anyhow. So what is the point in my posting them? ---
**Author:** ![LarryM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/0ea827/32.png) [@LarryM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LarryM)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2013, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vikings-in-new-zealand/200185/128 "2013-04-01T21:11:22Z")
Language is Quechua Amazonia ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2013, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vikings-in-new-zealand/200185/129 "2013-04-01T21:35:20Z")
> [@LarryM](#): > > Have you been there? I have. There are also many words used in the local dialect that are the same as old norse such as skegg (beard) Skip (small boat) and arn (Iron). > The vikings went there off the coast into the mountains just like everyone else did. For the metals. Lots of gold and silver and good quality low sulfer iron and coal for steel making. > During that era it was difficult to get steel and it was highly valued. > They had a rip roaring steel industry going there for a few hundred years. The remains of the smelters are still there along with piles of slag. > Go take a look for yourself. > Also check out Maji in Ethiopia. It is near sudan. Quite the viking population there a thousand years ago. Lots of old norse words and viking artifacts there too. Blue eyed and straight haired people too. Long, long way from the beach. > Ive been there too. Ethiopia is a hell of a lot closer to known Viking turf for starters. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2013, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vikings-in-new-zealand/200185/130 "2013-04-01T21:46:20Z")
> [@LarryM](#): > > Things are being documented every day. Take a look at this article. > Newly discovered 2010. Chachapoya village. [archaeologydaily.com domain name is for sale. Inquire now.](http://www.archaeologydaily.com/news/201009165074/New-Chachapoyan-archaeological-site-discovered.html) > (Note the same Viking roundhouse design) However the locals have known about it forever. But as far as you know it has just been discovered. Just because someone hasn’t written about it doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. > I have many photos. Ill see what I can find that shows you what you want to know. > But if you really want to know. Just go. Im sure that you will just say the photos are photo shopped anyhow. So what is the point in my posting them? You must be kidding. Just because a building is made out of stone and is round doesn’t mean it’s a Viking house. Can you point to the specific features of the structures that link it to Vikings? The way the walls are constructed, and in particular the stone friezes, appear to be quite different than typical Viking construction. You can post all the photos you want. They could well be authentic. It’s your interpretation of them as Viking remains that is in question, not whether stone houses exist in Peru. How about answering the question of how Vikings turned up in Peru before they appeared in most of Europe? > [@LarryM](#): > > Language is Quechua Amazonia So it doesn’t actually have anything to do with the Chachapoya at all, then? Where exactly are we talking about? Quechua languages are spoken over a large area of South America. ---
**Author:** ![LarryM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/0ea827/32.png) [@LarryM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LarryM)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2013, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vikings-in-new-zealand/200185/131 "2013-04-01T21:47:31Z")
Yes, but my point is that they were well inland in a very difficult place to get to in the first place. Another thing is that ALL blue eyes originate in northern europe 6000 years ago or so. So if someone has blue eyes anywhere in the world, then they had genes that came from there. So someone visited. Perhaps vikings. Perhaps someone else. But the vikings were the only known blue eyed european explorers of the time. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2013, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vikings-in-new-zealand/200185/132 "2013-04-01T22:03:35Z")
> [@LarryM](#): > > Yes, but my point is that they were well inland in a very difficult place to get to in the first place. Who or what were well inland? I don’t know what you’re referring to. > [@](#): > > Another thing is that ALL blue eyes originate in northern europe 6000 years ago or so. So if someone has blue eyes anywhere in the world, then they had genes that came from there. So someone visited. Perhaps vikings. Perhaps someone else. But the vikings were the only known blue eyed european explorers of the time. Not so; blue eyes can appear as an independent mutation. These [Kuna Indians](http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-VXm9m-23noQ/UJ2vggPdMbI/AAAAAAAAFi8/4NmJ3QRx4bI/s1600/kuna.jpg) in Panama have blue eyes and blonde hair that is not due to any European ancestry. In any case, you have yet to produce any cite that anyone had blue eyes in Peru before contact with the Spanish in the 1500s. And 500 years of interbreeding with Europeans since can easily account for any instances of blue eyes in any modern populations. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2013, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vikings-in-new-zealand/200185/133 "2013-04-01T22:07:37Z")
Vikings did in fact sail all over the Mediterranean, from both ends, either through Gibraltar or down the rivers in what is now Russia and the Ukraine to the Black Sea, then on to Constantinople where they were the backbone of the Varangian Guards. [File:WikingerKarte.jpg - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:WikingerKarte.jpg) And if you want to be generous and call the Normans Vikings, well: [Norman conquest of southern Italy - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_conquest_of_southern_Italy) ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2013, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vikings-in-new-zealand/200185/134 "2013-04-01T22:09:29Z")
> [@naita](#): > > the available evidence on horned European helmets make a Viking origin unlikely, and an age of 900 years too young. Worse yet, assuming the dating of any helmets is correct, that only gives the date of manufacture. It’s beyond bad archaeology to assume it was buried around the same time it was made. > [@LarryM](#): > > Another thing is that ALL blue eyes originate in northern europe 6000 years ago or so. Not so, as others have pointed out. Other mutations are known to have several independent origins. Lactose tolerance, for one. The particular mutation the Vikings passed along is not the only one. ---
**Author:** ![LarryM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/0ea827/32.png) [@LarryM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LarryM)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2013, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vikings-in-new-zealand/200185/135 "2013-04-01T23:00:22Z")
Those kuna indians are albinos. Much diffrent than having blue eyes. Here is a photo of a girl I know whos parents have lived in Chachapoya and can trace their ancestors back at least 400 years. She was born with black hair, black eyes and dark skin. This is her when her eyes were starting to turn blue at 6 months. [http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac146/crappiewy/DSCN0458\_zpsfc98a567.jpg](http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac146/crappiewy/DSCN0458_zpsfc98a567.jpg) By the time she was 3 she looked completly european. Blue eyes and blond hair. All of her relatives were inca in apearance. [http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac146/crappiewy/DSCN3307\_zps1a1475b8.jpg](http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac146/crappiewy/DSCN3307_zps1a1475b8.jpg) It was so bad that the husband demanded a dna test which was 99% positive that she was his kid. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2013, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vikings-in-new-zealand/200185/136 "2013-04-01T23:53:38Z")
So let me get this straight. After 400 years of Spanish colonialism in South America, there is no possible way that a random South American could have European alleles for light hair and blue eyes, unless it was Vikings. You say that the family can trace their ancestry for 400 years. First of all, no they can’t because you made that up. Second of all, like you mentioned about the DNA test, before DNA tests existed people just wrote the husband’s name on the birth certificate unless the husband was willing to expose himself as a cuckold by divorcing his wife over it. There are blue eyed and light haired Spaniards, lots of them. Blue eyed and light haired Spaniards sailed to America for centuries, and they weren’t shy about taking native wives and raising mestizo children. Even people who seem to be full blooded indios often have some European (or African) ancestry. ---
**Author:** ![LarryM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/0ea827/32.png) [@LarryM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LarryM)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2013, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vikings-in-new-zealand/200185/137 "2013-04-02T00:06:09Z")
In peru places such as chachapoyas were not easy to get to. Still arent today. If it wasent for airplanes no one would go there today. People also kept good verbal records. It is not hard to trace your fammily because no one ever left the place. Everyone is your relative. The blue eyes and blond hair predate the spaniards. The spaniards came after the chachapoyas were assimilated by the incas. > **[Yahoo | Mail, Weather, Search, Politics, News, Finance, Sports & Videos](https://www.yahoo.com/)** > > Latest news coverage, email, free stock quotes, live scores and video are just the beginning. Discover more every day at Yahoo! ---
**Author:** ![LarryM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/0ea827/32.png) [@LarryM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LarryM)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2013, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vikings-in-new-zealand/200185/138 "2013-04-02T00:19:40Z")
Another thing. Chachapoyas mumified their dead. Go take a look at the mummies from 1000 years ago. They have blond to redish blond hair. Look at the bone structure of the skulls. Do they it look asian like incas or european? Ive seen many of them there and there is not a single one with black hair… [http://www.sciencephoto.com/media/185226/view](http://www.sciencephoto.com/media/185226/view) ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2013, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vikings-in-new-zealand/200185/139 "2013-04-02T01:19:17Z")
Zombie thread, Geørg appears, Geørg disappears, Larrym appears. Only one possible explanation- Vikings ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2013, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vikings-in-new-zealand/200185/140 "2013-04-02T01:44:49Z")
> [@LarryM](#): > > In peru places such as chachapoyas were not easy to get to. Still arent today. If it wasent for airplanes no one would go there today. So as I’m reading it, 900 years ago these places were easy enough to get to that Viking visits are the most probable explanation for the blue eyes in chachapoyas. And the reason the seafaring Vikings went so far inland was to chase supplies of gold and silver and iron. But then 400 years ago these places were so hard to get to that the Spanish can’t be an explanation for blue eyes in chachopoyas. The draw of gold and silver - which as I understand it the Spanish were more than a little interested in - wasn’t enough to cause them to make the journey. Indeed, even today these places are so hard to get to, no one would go if it weren’t for planes. Uh huh. Right. Yanno, when you have to completely contradict yourself to rationalise obvious flaws in your silly theory, you might want to start thinking about whether it’s time to give it up. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vikings-in-new-zealand/200185.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vikings-in-new-zealand/200185.md?page=8)