# Vikings in New Zealand **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 8, 2003, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vikings-in-new-zealand/200185 "2003-09-08T00:28:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2013, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vikings-in-new-zealand/200185/161 "2013-04-04T00:57:49Z")
> [@Blake](#): > > … > Jared Diamond said it best: we have more evidence for the practice of humans eating humans for food than we have for humans eating moas for food. Yet for some reason _nobody disputes that humans ate moas for food, but the same evidence_\*\*\* in addition\*\*\*\*\* to eyewitness testimony won’t convince some people that humans ate humans for food… > [@Kimstu](#): > > … > > Or moas, for that matter. The argument that humans eating humans is better documented than humans eating moas is kind of silly in this context: after all, we have ample evidence through all phases of human history of routine subsistence carnivory involving non-human prey, and it’s no stretch at all to fit moa-eating into that pattern. > [@John\_Mace](#): > > No, the moa were birds, probably made extinct due to overhunting by the Maori. Not sure what the “oris” were, but they weren’t Vikings. I was dying to post on this but saw that until now it was part of a zombie, so refrained. Now, I can: Mmmm, moa. I feel better now. Plus, a thread with major whomping like this one is always appreciated, ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2013, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vikings-in-new-zealand/200185/162 "2013-04-04T04:00:38Z")
> [@Joe3](#): > > Kind of been following this. I studied this in school some years ago and had acess to Pedro Pizarro’s original manuscript called “Relation of the discovery and the conquest of the kingdoms of Peru” in spanish. It is in the Huntington library in Southern California. > The passage that everyone misquotes is this. > > They considered themselves > beautiful, and almost all the daughters of > these Lords and orejones were so. The Indian > women of the Guancas and Chachapoyas and > Caflares were the common women, most of > them being beautiful. The rest of the woman- > hood of this kingdom were thick, neither > beautiful nor ugly, but of medium good-looks. > The people of this kingdom of Peru (Chachapoyas)were white, > swarthy in colour, and among them the Lords > and Ladies were whiter than Spaniards. I saw > in this land an Indian woman and a child who > would not stand out among white blonds. > These people [of the upper class] say that they > were the children of the idols. (Gods) > > Most of the quotes on the internet are incorrect. Thanks. I was able to locate the original passage in Spanish: > [@](#): > > Presciábanse de hermosas y éranlo casi todas las hijas destos señores y de los orejones. Los indias guancas y chachapoyas y cañares eran las comunes: las mas hermosas y pulidas. El demas mugeriego común deste reino eran espesas, no hermosas ni feas sino de un mediano parescer. Esta gente desto reino del Perú era blanca, de color trigueño, y entre los señores y señoras eren mas blancos como españoles. Yo vide en este tierra una muger india y un niño que de blancos y rubios casi no vian. Estos decian ellas que eran hijos de los ídolos. “Trigueño” literally means “wheat-colored,” thus in context means closer to “light brown” (cafe-au-lait) than “swarthy.” While there is a comparison to blonds, the passage doesn’t say the people actually are blond, and there is no mention of blue eyes. ---
**Author:** ![Joe3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c67d28/32.png) [@Joe3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joe3)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2013, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vikings-in-new-zealand/200185/163 "2013-04-04T16:51:45Z")
Yes, I was going to change that but there is a limit to the time you can edit here. By trigo he ment the hair. That is where the white, straw (wheat) colored hair quotes come from. Trigo hair today means something similar to dirty blond. There are quotes about blue eyes. But most dont say blue. They say grey or plata or clear or sapphire or steel color . There are many miss translations even from the original to spanish. The original is not that easy to read in many places. But there are many quotes that reference eye color other than brown or black. Most are from Chachapoyas, Paracas and a few from the Lake Titicaca area. Yo vide en este tierra una muger india y un niño que de \*\*blancos y rubios \*\*casi no vian In this part of the quote Blanco and rubio does mean white and blond. Blond as in really blond. Generally in the States there is access to a few books such as the "Revaletions"one this quote is from. In La Catholica unerversity in Lima there are thousands of books and a room full of documents such as observations of government officials. There are many, many accounts of eye color other than brown or black. If you go into the mountains of Peru today the thing that will strike you about the people is that their faces are dark red and burnt looking from the altitude and lack of atsmophere to block the solar radiation. When the Spaniards arrived it is safe to believe that most people in peru would have looked like this. There are many quotes to this too. A good book to read if you are interested in this is the diary of Gaspar de Carvajal. Relación del nuevo descubrimiento del famoso río Grande que descubrió por muy gran ventura el capitán Francisco de Orellana . He mentions quite a few times of the blond traders who had eyes the color of steel. ---
**Author:** ![Learjeff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/94ad74/32.png) [@Learjeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Learjeff)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2013, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vikings-in-new-zealand/200185/164 "2013-04-04T17:11:26Z")
I think what this thread needs is moa cowbell. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2013, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vikings-in-new-zealand/200185/165 "2013-04-04T18:53:07Z")
> [@Joe3](#): > > By trigo he ment the hair. That is where the white, straw (wheat) colored hair quotes come from. Trigo hair today means something similar to dirty blond. How are you sure he’s referring to hair? Today trigueño can refer to either skin color or hair color. Interesting quotes you mention about blue eyes etc. Those Vikings certainly must have got around!😉 I’ll have to have a look at Caravajal’s account. ---
**Author:** ![Joe3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c67d28/32.png) [@Joe3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joe3)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2013, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vikings-in-new-zealand/200185/166 "2013-04-04T20:04:27Z")
Probably not vikings. They along with the rest of the southamerican population had absolutly no resistance to the sickness that the spaniards brought and were also gone within the next 20 years. It makes sense that if they were vikings they would have some resistance. If you read Caravajal, have a handy bottle of asprin available. 😃 Its 400 pages of whining and a few pages of good stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Georg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9f8e36/32.png) [@Georg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Georg)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2013, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vikings-in-new-zealand/200185/167 "2013-04-11T03:05:49Z")
I think larrym has some interesting theories which some of you are rudely knocking off as bs. How about unlock that door and step outside the box to do some thinking? I got a feeling he could be onto something after all I did read about them going onto Australian land and presenting the Aboriginals with gifts. ---
**Author:** ![Georg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9f8e36/32.png) [@Georg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Georg)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2013, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vikings-in-new-zealand/200185/168 "2013-04-11T03:09:45Z")
With all this evidence you lot want. New Zealand government won’t allow DNA testing to prove the Vikings were there first. And I’m so sorry to inform you that Eric the red forgot his video camera for that trip to New Zealand ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2013, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vikings-in-new-zealand/200185/169 "2013-04-11T03:12:37Z")
> [@Georg](#): > > With all this evidence you lot want. New Zealand government won’t allow DNA testing to prove the Vikings were there first. And I’m so sorry to inform you that Eric the red forgot his video camera for that trip to New Zealand Really? In New Zealand they don’t let people get their DNA analyzed? Now I can understand that they wouldn’t want anyone looking too closely at the sheep DNA, but who in New Zealand would care if Maoris are related to Vikings? ---
**Author:** ![stui\_magpie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stui_magpie/32/11010_2.png) [@stui\_magpie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stui_magpie)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2013, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vikings-in-new-zealand/200185/170 "2013-04-11T04:11:54Z")
I recently read a book called "Future Eaters by Tim Flannery. [Amazon.com](http://www.amazon.com/The-Future-Eaters-Ecological-Australasian/dp/0802139434) This is the Amazon blurb > [@](#): > > Humans first settled the islands of Australia, New Zealand, New Caledonia, and New Guinea some sixty millennia ago, and as they had elsewhere across the globe, immediately began altering the environment by hunting and trapping animals and gathering fruits and vegetables. In this illustrated iconoclastic ecological history, acclaimed scientist and historian Tim Flannery follows the environment of the islands through the age of dinosaurs to the age of mammals and the arrival of humanity on its shores, to the coming of European colonizers and the advent of the industrial society that would change nature’s balance forever. Penetrating, gripping, and provocative, The Future Eaters is a dramatic narrative history that combines natural history, anthropology, and ecology on an epic scale. “Flannery tells his beautiful story in plain language, science-popularizing at its Antipodean best.” – Times Literary Supplement “Like the present-day incarnation of some early-nineteenth-century explorer-scholar, Tim Flannery refuses to be fenced in.” – Time The guy has some decent credentials. Just to cover off a few of the comments in this thread so far: Zero evidence that the Vikings ever got to NZ Plenty of evidence that NZ was not populated until the Polynesians got there. They sort of drifted down the Sth Pacific colonising one group of islands after another til they got there. There is evidence that the Maoris engaged in cannibalism. In Flannery’s book he suggest that the practice came about largely because they’d eaten just about everything else in the first few hundred years (including wiping out the Moa), little in the way of crops so very hungry tribes would be constantly at war with each other and losers got eaten. The Australian Aborigines and the Maori aren’t related although there is evidence of some limited contact. The Aboriginals had a hell of a lot longer in Australia to change the environment, then adapt. tens of thousands of years. As far as other Europeans discovering Australia before Cook did, that’s pretty much fact but it’s only “discovering” from a European perspective. People already lived there. It’s like saying Columbus discovered America. There were people who already lived there all he did was show Europeans how to find it. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2013, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vikings-in-new-zealand/200185/171 "2013-04-11T04:37:48Z")
> [@Georg](#): > > I got a feeling he could be onto something after all I did read about them going onto Australian land and presenting the Aboriginals with gifts. Where did you read this? No, that bullshit “Psychic Australia” site doesn’t count as a cite. Neither does “a book I read once.” > [@Georg](#): > > New Zealand government won’t allow DNA testing to prove the Vikings were there first. Cite? Please provide some details on this amazing policy. ---
**Author:** ![stormpebbles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/49beb7/32.png) [@stormpebbles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stormpebbles)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2013, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vikings-in-new-zealand/200185/172 "2013-04-13T00:33:05Z")
this is a pic of the type of maps used by the early maoris , (its the map that looks like its made from sticks and shells )to navigate to New Zealand maps [Imageholics Anonymous: Unusual Maps](http://imageholicsanonymous.blogspot.co.nz/2009/10/unusual-maps.html). i dont think the nz goverment would ““PAY”” to have any of the maori’s dna tested to prove one way or the other , theres just not enough evidence to support this theroy. a previous poster claimed about ""a cave in the north island that had been sealed off “” where ?? the only evidence that i can find to support the theroy that there were vikings in nz before the maori , is the helmet in the musuem at tepapa … and thats not proof … [http://collections.tepapa.govt.nz/objectdetails.aspx?oid=131208#](http://collections.tepapa.govt.nz/objectdetails.aspx?oid=131208#) ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2013, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vikings-in-new-zealand/200185/173 "2013-04-13T02:01:45Z")
> [@stormpebbles](#): > > the only evidence that i can find to support the theroy that there were vikings in nz before the maori , is the helmet in the musuem at tepapa .. and thats not proof .. > [http://collections.tepapa.govt.nz/objectdetails.aspx?oid=131208#](http://collections.tepapa.govt.nz/objectdetails.aspx?oid=131208#) I’m don’t know how a helmet, possibly Spanish, dated to 1580 and of unknown origin, provides the slightest evidence of Viking contact with the Maori. It has absolutely no connection to Vikings in any way. ---
**Author:** ![Georg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9f8e36/32.png) [@Georg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Georg)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2013, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vikings-in-new-zealand/200185/174 "2013-04-14T03:11:04Z")
[![](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/7aYW4ac0oYc/hqdefault.jpg "Did the Vikings discover New Zealand") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7aYW4ac0oYc) ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2013, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vikings-in-new-zealand/200185/175 "2013-04-14T07:22:11Z")
> [@Georg](#): > > [http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7aYW4ac0oYc&desktop\_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D7aYW4ac0oYc](http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7aYW4ac0oYc&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D7aYW4ac0oYc) Care to summarize the evidence for us? ---
**Author:** ![Teuton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/teuton/32/3864_2.png) [@Teuton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Teuton)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2013, 9:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vikings-in-new-zealand/200185/176 "2013-04-14T09:05:30Z")
> [@stormpebbles](#): > > this is a pic of the type of maps used by the early maoris , (its the map that looks like its made from sticks and shells )to navigate to New Zealand maps [Imageholics Anonymous: Unusual Maps](http://imageholicsanonymous.blogspot.co.nz/2009/10/unusual-maps.html). It is worth looking at this link, even if only for the cheese map of Canada. ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2013, 11:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vikings-in-new-zealand/200185/177 "2013-04-14T11:04:06Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Care to summarize the evidence for us? I watched the video. I laughed so much I cried. It’s almost all text plus irrelevant background pictures and music. The main “evidence” claimed are 12th century texts by “Taine Ruaridh Mhor” indicating Viking expeditions and colonization of New Zealand. No links to where these texts can be found of course, and the alleged content is so obviously ludicrous no one sane will doubt the documents either don’t exist or have been interpreted by utter idiots. There’s also a tiny bit of argumentative picture use, but just stills, so using a video here really shows you we’re in internet cook land. Two pictures of Maori men and two of Maori women and I’m fairly sure one is supposed to think, “Hey, they look Nordic!” They don’t though, at least not in a way that isn’t shared with every ethnicity on the planet. There’s a picture of Maori “architecture” which bears uncanny resemblances to Norse architecture by virtue of being made of wood and having carvings. And a comparison between a Viking war axe and a Maori war axe that are both … you should sit down for this … axe shaped. Without the ample evidence there is no way I’d believe there could be people this incapable of logical thought. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2013, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vikings-in-new-zealand/200185/178 "2013-04-14T18:24:49Z")
> [@Teuton](#): > > It is worth looking at this link, even if only for the cheese map of Canada. I like “South America in dirty clothes.” It clearly demonstrates that the Americas were first discovered by the [Lower Slobbovians.](http://www.lil-abner.com/slobovia.html) ---
**Author:** ![stormpebbles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/49beb7/32.png) [@stormpebbles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stormpebbles)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vikings-in-new-zealand/200185/179 "2013-04-17T13:48:34Z")
this website contains what the OP was looking for , a collective bunch of so called evidence proposing to support the theroy that the vikings have landed and were liveing here in nz before the maoris , warning this website /forum is really racist [http://www.whitenewsnow.com/new-zealand-news-white-new-zealand/14578-celtic-viking-traces-ancient-new-zealand.html](http://www.whitenewsnow.com/new-zealand-news-white-new-zealand/14578-celtic-viking-traces-ancient-new-zealand.html) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vikings-in-new-zealand/200185.md?page=8)