# Vile, Filthy RACIST Remarks-by Obama's PASTOR? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 15, 2008, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vile-filthy-racist-remarks-by-obamas-pastor/441421 "2008-03-15T00:15:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2008, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vile-filthy-racist-remarks-by-obamas-pastor/441421/41 "2008-03-15T03:20:49Z")
[QUOTE=Richard Parker] I I expect the “well, if a white man did it…” out of Flying Dutchman et al., but I think most people accept that two hundred years of historical context matters. Wright’s comments are outrageous and contemptible, but they aren’t worthy of comparison to the KKK or white supremacy. In the very same sermon he points out that Jesus said to love one’s enemies. [/QUOTE] I guess this is the part where I admit that I haven’t read the entire thread thoroughly, because I didn’t realize that Flying Dutchman had already expressed this. But speaking for myself, I actually think it is a fair point. Comparisons to KKK? Absolutely not. Pales in comparison…but I am not talking KKK. I am talking just run of the mill, anti-black statements along the lines of “Those blacks need to get off their butts, stop blaming the white man for their problems and get a job.” or something like that. I don’t believe Obama believes those things just because his pastor has made those comments. But I do believe that if Hillary had a pastor with anti-black statements, much would be said of it. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2008, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vile-filthy-racist-remarks-by-obamas-pastor/441421/42 "2008-03-15T03:21:56Z")
[QUOTE=Belowjob2.0] I feel pretty sure Obama’s finished. Not just in terms of this election, but even in terms of keeping his Senate seat. The only interesting question is will the Democrats dump him now, or let him go on to lose in the general. I hate to see Hillary march back into the White House, but evil beats stupid every single day of the week. The 20 year close association with Wright means that there’s no way he can separate himself from Wright’s views. The obvious question is, if you really feel this way about white people and America, why the hell do you want to be president? Why are you in the business of asking for white people’s votes? The problem with Wright is that he practices the bullshit politics of self esteem. The reality that much of black America’s trauma is self inflicted is too painful to deal with, so you blame white people, you blame the US as a whole. That way you feel better, and you don’t really have to change. It’s the same bullshit politics Geraldine Ferraro and the Clinton campaign were (rightly) called to account for. Hillary’s not losing because she ran a shitty, disorganized campaign with a a lousy, inexperienced candidate. She’s losing because her opponent is black. Or a man. Or the media is biased. Obama’s long term association with Wright suggests that Obama is a deeply immature man, who hasn’t gotten a handle on his inner demons. So he maintains a long term association with who espouses values directly contrary to the one’s he claims to believe in, an association that can only serve to damage his career. There are only two possibilities. Either Obama is really, really stupid, Harvard Law degree and magna cum laude notwithstanding, or he maintains his connection with Wright based on a deep psychological need. A need that outweighs his own best interests, and even outweighs his self professed belief in a future beyond racial partisanship. I also have to question Obama’s backers. Did they do no background investigation at all? This suggests political incompetence on a massive scale. [/QUOTE] Wrong and condescending to boot. Perhaps you might read Barack’s [explaination](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/barack-obama/on-my-faith-and-my-church_b_91623.html) as to why he admires some of the guys qualities and enjoys the church. I find your conclusions here about maturity and political incompetence to be just ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![Menocchio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de053/32.png) [@Menocchio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Menocchio)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2008, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vile-filthy-racist-remarks-by-obamas-pastor/441421/43 "2008-03-15T03:23:00Z")
[QUOTE=Belowjob2.0] I feel pretty sure Obama’s finished. Not just in terms of this election, but even in terms of keeping his Senate seat. [/quote] Bullshit. Not only can Obama still win the presidency, but short of pulling a scandal on the scale of Spitzer in the future, his senate seat is his for as long as he’d like it. > [@](#): > > The 20 year close association with Wright means that there’s no way he can separate himself from Wright’s views. The obvious question is, if you really feel this way about white people and America, why the hell do you want to be president? Why are you in the business of asking for white people’s votes? Bullshit. He’s in the process of distancing Wright right now, and this will probably be forgotten long before PA, let along the general. > [@](#): > > The problem with Wright is that he practices the bullshit politics of self esteem. The reality that much of black America’s trauma is self inflicted is too painful to deal with, so you blame white people, you blame the US as a whole. That way you feel better, and you don’t really have to change. Not content with slandering Obama, Belowjob turns on African-Americans in general. Classy. > [@](#): > > Obama’s long term association with Wright suggests that Obama is a deeply immature man, who hasn’t gotten a handle on his inner demons. So he maintains a long term association with who espouses values directly contrary to the one’s he claims to believe in, an association that can only serve to damage his career. > > There are only two possibilities. Either Obama is really, really stupid, Harvard Law degree and magna cum laude notwithstanding, or he maintains his connection with Wright based on a deep psychological need. A need that outweighs his own best interests, and even outweighs his self professed belief in a future beyond racial partisanship. Or, y’know, Wright wasn’t all racist all the time, and Obama didn’t know or overlooked the objectionable stuff given Wright’s other sermons, service, and their personal friendship. Own up to it BJ, you were just waiting for something like this to happen so you could gloat about how evil and stupid Obama and his constituency is. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2008, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vile-filthy-racist-remarks-by-obamas-pastor/441421/44 "2008-03-15T03:26:13Z")
[QUOTE=Nzinga, Seated] I guess this is the part where I admit that I haven’t read the entire thread thoroughly, because I didn’t realize that Flying Dutchman had already expressed this. But speaking for myself, I actually think it is a fair point. Comparisons to KKK? Absolutely not. Pales in comparison…but I am not talking KKK. I am talking just run of the mill, anti-black statements along the lines of “Those blacks need to get off their butts, stop blaming the white man for their problems and get a job.” or something like that. I don’t believe Obama believes those things just because his pastor has made those comments. But I do believe that if Hillary had a pastor with anti-black statements, much would be said of it. [/QUOTE] I don’t think he did express those sentiments, I was just saying that’s the sort of thing I expect from his type of conservative. No doubt much would be made of Hillary’s pastor saying such things, though much is being made of this too. But there’s still a huge difference between waxing hyperbolic about white racism and actually expressing that racism. Just like there’s a difference between virulent anti-german racism as a result of the holocaust and those who advocate killing all jews. Both are racist sentiments, but they are not analogous. ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2008, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vile-filthy-racist-remarks-by-obamas-pastor/441421/45 "2008-03-15T03:28:17Z")
[QUOTE=Richard Parker] Just like there’s a difference between virulent anti-german racism as a result of the holocaust and those who advocate killing all jews. Both are racist sentiments, but they are not analogous. [/QUOTE] 100% agreed. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2008, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vile-filthy-racist-remarks-by-obamas-pastor/441421/46 "2008-03-15T03:30:31Z")
[QUOTE=Belowjob2.0] No, I don’t think so. This is bad. Really bad. I’ve spent the better part of the day indulging in denial. The reality is setting in. It’s over. The ugliest stuff hasn’t come out yet. It will. Obama is more than smart enough to know that a close connection to Wright and his Farrakhan loving, anti US liberation theology was political poison. He maintained it anyway, out of what can only be a deep seated need. For almost 20 years. [/QUOTE] As mentioned, McCain has a similar issue and I do think it is yesterday news (It did not affect him much), it is really BAD for the people demanding that Obama do more extreme things than what he has already done because then one has to suspect other reasons for the criticism. And speaking of Farrakhan, I have to now point that you are getting your information from gutter sources: [http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0108/Obama\_knocks\_Farrakhan.html](http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0108/Obama_knocks_Farrakhan.html) > [@](#): > > Obama has a comment out now: > > “I decry racism and anti-Semitism in every form and strongly condemn the anti-Semitic statements made by Minister Farrakhan. I assume that Trumpet Magazine made its own decision to honor Farrakhan based on his efforts to rehabilitate ex-offenders, but it is not a decision with which I agree.” And that was done on January 15, 2008 ---
**Author:** ![Two\_and\_a\_Half\_Inches\_of\_Fun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ea666f/32.png) [@Two\_and\_a\_Half\_Inches\_of\_Fun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_and_a_Half_Inches_of_Fun)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2008, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vile-filthy-racist-remarks-by-obamas-pastor/441421/47 "2008-03-15T03:36:57Z")
[QUOTE=cosmosdan] I’d like to see the specifics in context. Got any links. [/QUOTE] What exactly do you want links to? That he said the government lied about inventing HIV? That the government knew about the attack on Pearl Harbor beforehand? That the government imported drugs? That the government gave blacks syphilis? These are all urban legends for which there is no evidence. This guy is a nut. [http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=azkbkx9.hvlw&refer=us](http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=azkbkx9.hvlw&refer=us) ![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/P2EVd9WDio0/maxresdefault.jpg)https://www.youtube.com/embed/P2EVd9WDio0?feature=oembed&wmode=opaque ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2008, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vile-filthy-racist-remarks-by-obamas-pastor/441421/48 "2008-03-15T03:39:50Z")
[QUOTE=Marley23] I understand the impact people are suggesting this could have on the election. I reiterate: I don’t see any reason to think Obama shares those views, and as a result it’s not an issue to me. [/QUOTE] If Clinton or McCain attended a church that looked like a klan rally you wouldn’t have a problem with it? Senator Obama gave money to this church. If he didn’t share the views he has a history of supporting them. If his contributions become public then a dollar figure will be attached. Given that the Democratic party pushed for a resolution condeming Bob Jones University back in 2000 Because Bush made an appearance there I don’t see how this can be swept under the rug. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2008, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vile-filthy-racist-remarks-by-obamas-pastor/441421/49 "2008-03-15T03:44:24Z")
[QUOTE=Magiver] If Clinton or McCain attended a church that looked like a klan rally you wouldn’t have a problem with it? Senator Obama gave money to this church. If he didn’t share the views he has a history of supporting them. If his contributions become public then a dollar figure will be attached. Given that the Democratic party pushed for a resolution condeming Bob Jones University back in 2000 Because Bush made an appearance there I don’t see how this can be swept under the rug. [/QUOTE] Bob Jones University deserves condemnation, and Bush did go to to the White House. ---
**Author:** ![Belowjob2.0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Belowjob2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belowjob2.0)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2008, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vile-filthy-racist-remarks-by-obamas-pastor/441421/50 "2008-03-15T03:46:56Z")
Hey, FWIW, I’ve been in the tank for Obama for quite a while now. Not just that, I’m pretty much a dyed in the wool Hillary hater. I’ve tried to talk myself into voting for her, because she’s got to be better than a 72 year old political hack with serious anger management issues. But as of yet, I’m not there. She makes my skin crawl. I won’t defend this as entirely rational, [her claim of greater experience is bullshit.](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/03/14/bills-excounsel-hillar_n_91582.html) I like Obama. I like his Harvard and Law Review credentials. I like his deep experience with ground level, hands on politics. I like the fact that he’s been able to win over many of the country’s most successful businessmen and political leaders, not to mention some of the Clinton’s best former advisers. I like the fact that he’s run an effective, well organized campaign. Overall, his platform is too left wing to be ideal for me, but with the mess the so called conservatives have made of things, we were in for a liberal president anyway. But this Wright situation has legs. It will grow over the weekend and be what everyone’s talking about on Monday. It will hurt Obama seriously. No way around it. But let’s face it, the SDMB is an assemblage of tech savvy, intellectually omnivorous people, college educated and skewed young. Obama loyalists, IOW. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2008, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vile-filthy-racist-remarks-by-obamas-pastor/441421/51 "2008-03-15T03:50:18Z")
[QUOTE=Belowjob2.0] But this Wright situation has legs. It will grow over the weekend and be what everyone’s talking about on Monday. It will hurt Obama seriously. No way around it. But let’s face it, the SDMB is an assemblage of tech savvy, intellectually omnivorous people, college educated and skewed young. Obama loyalists, IOW. [/QUOTE] No it is not, the problem here is that we can spot a bullshit argument a mile away. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_One](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/45deac/32.png) [@Evil\_One](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_One)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2008, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vile-filthy-racist-remarks-by-obamas-pastor/441421/52 "2008-03-15T03:55:07Z")
[QUOTE=Marley23] it’ll be next to impossible for Hillary to get as many pledged delegates as Obama has regardless. [/QUOTE] That’s where the superdelegates come in. I think that Reverend Wright will end up being Obama’s Donna Rice. The twenty year association with the man will raise doubts in enough minds for them to see past Obama’s charisma on the stump. ---
**Author:** ![Belowjob2.0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Belowjob2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belowjob2.0)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2008, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vile-filthy-racist-remarks-by-obamas-pastor/441421/53 "2008-03-15T03:57:56Z")
But if bullshit arguments didn’t work, could Reagan have won two terms? Bushbaby? It’s pretty clear that bullshit arguments do work, for a big chunk of the electorate. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2008, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vile-filthy-racist-remarks-by-obamas-pastor/441421/54 "2008-03-15T04:00:44Z")
[QUOTE=GIGObuster] Bob Jones University deserves condemnation, and Bush did go to to the White House. [/QUOTE] Are you hearing yourself? All Bush did was make an appearance and legislators wanted to make a formal declaration. Obama was a supporter of the church in question. A supporter. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2008, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vile-filthy-racist-remarks-by-obamas-pastor/441421/55 "2008-03-15T04:01:11Z")
[QUOTE=Belowjob2.0] But if bullshit arguments didn’t work, could Reagan have won two terms? Bushbaby? It’s pretty clear that bullshit arguments do work, for a big chunk of the electorate. [/QUOTE] You are missing the point big time, the specific bullshit argument we are talking about here was a total failure against Reagan and Bush baby. And the same thing goes to **Magiver** ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2008, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vile-filthy-racist-remarks-by-obamas-pastor/441421/56 "2008-03-15T04:01:16Z")
[QUOTE=Magiver] If Clinton or McCain attended a church that looked like a klan rally you wouldn’t have a problem with it? [/QUOTE] There’s just no comparison, for reasons that have already been addressed. And a KKK comparison is ridiculous because I’ve seen no racism in any of the remarks attributed to Wright. I haven’t watched the videos for fear of crashing my computer, but while I see some dumb and ill-informed remarks, I see no racism. ---
**Author:** ![Two\_and\_a\_Half\_Inches\_of\_Fun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ea666f/32.png) [@Two\_and\_a\_Half\_Inches\_of\_Fun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_and_a_Half_Inches_of_Fun)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2008, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vile-filthy-racist-remarks-by-obamas-pastor/441421/57 "2008-03-15T04:02:00Z")
This goes beyond just Wright. It is the church members as well. Watch the video; Wright is saying things that are just absolutely fuckin’ insane and the congregation is cheering in approval. They are totally buying into Wright’s bullshit. For those of you that go to church, what do you think the your church’s congregation’s reaction would be to someone saying the government lied about inventing HIV or that the government knew about the attacks on Pearl Harbor beforehand? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2008, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vile-filthy-racist-remarks-by-obamas-pastor/441421/58 "2008-03-15T04:04:33Z")
[QUOTE=Two and a Half Inches of Fun] This goes beyond just Wright. It is the church members as well. Watch the video; Wright is saying things that are just absolutely fuckin’ insane and the congregation is cheering in approval. They are totally buying into Wright’s bullshit. For those of you that go to church, what do you think the your church’s congregation’s reaction would be to someone saying the government lied about inventing HIV or that the government knew about the attacks on Pearl Harbor beforehand? [/QUOTE] It does not mean it is an unanimous sentiment. > **[Controversial minister off Obama's campaign - CNN.com](https://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/03/14/obama.minister/?iref=hpmostpop)** > > A Chicago minister who delivered a fiery sermon about Sen. Hillary Clinton having an advantage over Sen. Barack Obama in the presidential race because she is white is no longer a part of the Obama campaign. > [@](#): > > But Obama also has long maintained he is at odds with some of Wright’s sermons, and has likened him to an “old uncle” who sometimes will say things Obama doesn’t agree with. He has also specifically denounced Wright’s 9/11 comments. ---
**Author:** ![Two\_and\_a\_Half\_Inches\_of\_Fun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ea666f/32.png) [@Two\_and\_a\_Half\_Inches\_of\_Fun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_and_a_Half_Inches_of_Fun)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2008, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vile-filthy-racist-remarks-by-obamas-pastor/441421/59 "2008-03-15T04:11:03Z")
[QUOTE=GIGObuster] It does not mean it is an unanimous sentiment. > **[Controversial minister off Obama's campaign - CNN.com](https://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/03/14/obama.minister/?iref=hpmostpop)** > > A Chicago minister who delivered a fiery sermon about Sen. Hillary Clinton having an advantage over Sen. Barack Obama in the presidential race because she is white is no longer a part of the Obama campaign. [/QUOTE] It does seem odd that with all the churches to pick from in Chicago, Obama would pick one where the pastor (who is also a mentor to Obama) screams incredibly stupid and delusional things that are loudly approved of by what seems like everyone in attendance if he is so strongly at odds with the sentiments expressed by Wright and approved of by the congregation. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2008, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vile-filthy-racist-remarks-by-obamas-pastor/441421/60 "2008-03-15T04:11:37Z")
[QUOTE=Evil One] That’s where the superdelegates come in. [/QUOTE] If it goes to the convention and superdelegates tip the balance it will be a bloodbath. Money will dry up quickly. It’s [already getting ugly](http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/15/us/politics/15donate.html?ei=5065&en=68bdcd72f717cb5f&ex=1206158400&partner=MYWAY&pagewanted=print) and the donations currently being made are being used for the Primary election. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vile-filthy-racist-remarks-by-obamas-pastor/441421.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vile-filthy-racist-remarks-by-obamas-pastor/441421.md?page=4)