# Vile, Filthy RACIST Remarks-by Obama's PASTOR? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 15, 2008, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vile-filthy-racist-remarks-by-obamas-pastor/441421 "2008-03-15T00:15:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Belowjob2.0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Belowjob2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belowjob2.0)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2008, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vile-filthy-racist-remarks-by-obamas-pastor/441421/61 "2008-03-15T04:12:38Z")
[QUOTE=GIGObuster] You are missing the point big time, the specific bullshit argument we are talking about here was a total failure against Reagan and Bush baby. And the same thing goes to **Magiver** [/QUOTE] That’s a good point. But it’s okay for white, straight Protestants to be tangetially associated with institutions that are mildly bigoted. They’re the norm. They don’t really have to reach out to anyone. They don’t have to convince anyone that electing them won’t result in Mau Mau rebellions on the streets of their suburbs and small towns. I’m not arguing that their fears are rational. I’m pointing out that they exist. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2008, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vile-filthy-racist-remarks-by-obamas-pastor/441421/62 "2008-03-15T04:12:43Z")
[QUOTE=Two and a Half Inches of Fun] It does seem odd that with all the churches to pick from in Chicago, Obama would pick one where the pastor (who is also a mentor to Obama) screams incredibly stupid and delusional things that are loudly approved of by what seems like everyone in attendance if he is so strongly at odds with the sentiments expressed by Wright and approved of by the congregation. [/QUOTE] Seems odd that you did not check the link: > [@](#): > > “When these statements first came to my attention, it was at the beginning of my presidential campaign. I made it clear at the time that I strongly condemned his comments,” Obama wrote. “But because Rev. Wright was on the verge of retirement, and because of my strong links to the Trinity faith community, where I married my wife and where my daughters were baptized, I did not think it appropriate to leave the church.” ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2008, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vile-filthy-racist-remarks-by-obamas-pastor/441421/63 "2008-03-15T04:16:57Z")
[QUOTE=Belowjob2.0] No, I don’t think so. This is bad. Really bad. I’ve spent the better part of the day indulging in denial. The reality is setting in. It’s over. The ugliest stuff hasn’t come out yet. It will. Obama is more than smart enough to know that a close connection to Wright and his Farrakhan loving, anti US liberation theology was political poison. He maintained it anyway, out of what can only be a deep seated need. For almost 20 years. [/QUOTE] It’s nothing. The the political right has been awash for decades with white evangelical bigots and no one ever says boo. Billy Graham is an antisemite who complained (on tape) to Nixon that we have to do something about the Jews. Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson both said America deserved 9/11. McCain smoked that Hagee dude’s cock on stage. Dobson is obsessed with homosexuality (actually, they’re _all_ obsessed with homosexuality…especially the gay ones). Hell, GWB himself has said that Jews can’t go to Heaven. A Congresswoman from my state named Michelle Bachman belongs to a church which believes that the pope is the Antichrist. Ted Haggard was Bush’s spiritual advisor. I don’t know who McCain’s pastor is but if we examine everythging he’s ever said we could probably find something offensive there too. Not only are Republican politicians never expected to disavow these assholes, they actually write the Republican platform and get surrogates hired to administration jobs. We’ve never before decided that a candidates’ _clergyman_ needed to be vetted and now,when a candidate’s idiot preacher is _black_, it’s suddenly a big, hairy issue. Well, I’m calling bullshit on that. This guy, Wright, is not part of Obama’s campaign, has no role in shaping his political policy and Obama has clearly rejected that kind of stupid “God damn America” rhetoric (which Obama had never even heard before) and has stated that he’s sometimes embarrassed by the dude but that his crazy stuff isn’t the full measure of all that he is and that he expected the dude was going to retire soon anyway. I think Obama has done the right thing now and is smart to put this bullshit behind him while it’s early in the game. McCain can’t use it against him in the General because he still has Hagee’s cock in his own mouth. It will eventually just become fodder for the usual 423 ads and Freeper morons. Does anyone really think that Barack Obama is secretly an America hating Black Nationalist who wants to kill whitey? I don’t think so. Anyone with any brains knows that this Wright guy does not represent Obama’s real thinking and any attempt to make hay out of it is just disingenuous, partisan hackery. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2008, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vile-filthy-racist-remarks-by-obamas-pastor/441421/64 "2008-03-15T04:21:24Z")
[QUOTE=Magiver] If it goes to the convention and superdelegates tip the balance it will be a bloodbath. Money will dry up quickly. It’s [already getting ugly](http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/15/us/politics/15donate.html?ei=5065&en=68bdcd72f717cb5f&ex=1206158400&partner=MYWAY&pagewanted=print) and the donations currently being made are being used for the Primary election. [/QUOTE] My take on that is that the anger the Clinton supporters have will be their undoing if they show it in the conversion. I do agree with others that Clinton will be at a disadvantage in delegates when they go to the convention, I expect that a big deal will be made and in the end the grass roots that appeared in state primaries that never had any before will remain in place when the election comes, grandpa McCain will be Bob Dole II ---
**Author:** ![Two\_and\_a\_Half\_Inches\_of\_Fun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ea666f/32.png) [@Two\_and\_a\_Half\_Inches\_of\_Fun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_and_a_Half_Inches_of_Fun)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2008, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vile-filthy-racist-remarks-by-obamas-pastor/441421/65 "2008-03-15T04:22:25Z")
[QUOTE=GIGObuster] Seems odd that you did not check the link: [/QUOTE] I have heard his statements and I do not buy them. He could not have been a member of this church for 20 years and not have known that the pastor and congregation held these positions. I have known a few people that were into black liberation theology and the beliefs that the government addicts blacks to drugs and invented HIV is were positions they all held. Obama choose to attend a church with a pastor that is a supporter of black liberation theology and he cannot reasonably claim that he just became aware of these sentiments in his church. Read some stuff by supporters of black liberation philosophy. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2008, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vile-filthy-racist-remarks-by-obamas-pastor/441421/66 "2008-03-15T04:24:39Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] This guy, Wright, is not part of Obama’s campaign [/QUOTE] I thought he was. At least, I saw headlines saying that he quit the campaign today. ---
**Author:** ![HazelNutCoffee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@HazelNutCoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HazelNutCoffee)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2008, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vile-filthy-racist-remarks-by-obamas-pastor/441421/67 "2008-03-15T04:28:25Z")
[QUOTE=Marathon] I was mildly annoyed by the hysteria in the thread title … until I started imagining it being read by Gollum’s character in the _Lord of the Rings_ movies. [/QUOTE] Thank you. That does help immensely. [Controversial Minister Off Obama’s Campaign](http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/03/14/obama.minister/index.html) ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2008, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vile-filthy-racist-remarks-by-obamas-pastor/441421/68 "2008-03-15T04:29:28Z")
[QUOTE=Leaper] I thought he was. At least, I saw headlines saying that he quit the campaign today. [/QUOTE] He was only associated in a tangential way as part of a “spirtual advisory committe,” not as a shaper of policy or strategy or anything. Anyway, he has no association at all anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2008, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vile-filthy-racist-remarks-by-obamas-pastor/441421/69 "2008-03-15T04:31:23Z")
[QUOTE=Two and a Half Inches of Fun] I have heard his statements and I do not buy them. He could not have been a member of this church for 20 years and not have known that the pastor and congregation held these positions. I have known a few people that were into black liberation theology and the beliefs that the government addicts blacks to drugs and invented HIV is were positions they all held. Obama choose to attend a church with a pastor that is a supporter of black liberation theology and he cannot reasonably claim that he just became aware of these sentiments in his church. Read some stuff by supporters of black liberation philosophy. [/QUOTE] Do you beleive that Obama himself is a believer in “Black Liberation ideology?” Do you believe that Obama is secretly an America hating Black Nationalist who wants to kill whitey? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2008, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vile-filthy-racist-remarks-by-obamas-pastor/441421/70 "2008-03-15T04:31:28Z")
[QUOTE=Two and a Half Inches of Fun] It does seem odd that with all the churches to pick from in Chicago, Obama would pick one where the pastor (who is also a mentor to Obama) screams incredibly stupid and delusional things that are loudly approved of by what seems like everyone in attendance if he is so strongly at odds with the sentiments expressed by Wright and approved of by the congregation. [/QUOTE] If I said something like “Gee, you’re awfully fond of holding parishioners accountable for the actions of their churches,” I’d sound like an idiot. But there you have it. I have very little in the way of religious moments in my life and none of it has been connected in any way with a church or religious institution, and even so, I have no trouble understanding why a man would stay connected to a church where he felt he met God or found some peace even if he had some strong disagreements with the leadership of the church. In any case, Obama met Wright and found his church through his community work. Wright convinced him to come to a service and he had a moving experience there. That’s where the whole “Audacity of Hope” thing comes from. And you know what? Obama makes it clear that there was political material in that sermon, mentions of Hiroshima and critiques of U.S. foreign policy. He described the sermon as “a meditation on a fallen world” in which hope still survived, and writes that he felt a deep connection to what he heard and to the people who were there with him, “until this black church, on this bright day, seemed once more a vessel carrying the story of a people into future generations and into a larger world.” For whatever that’s worth to you. You’re not required to accept what Obama says, but I think you’re making an effort not to understand. It doesn’t do you any credit. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2008, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vile-filthy-racist-remarks-by-obamas-pastor/441421/71 "2008-03-15T04:34:04Z")
[QUOTE=Marley23] There’s just no comparison, for reasons that have already been addressed. And a KKK comparison is ridiculous because I’ve seen no racism in any of the remarks attributed to Wright. I haven’t watched the videos for fear of crashing my computer, but while I see some dumb and ill-informed remarks, I see no racism. [/QUOTE] We believe in white supremacy and black inferiority and believe it more than we believe in God." “We’ve got more black men in prison than there are in college,” he began. “Racism is alive and well. Racism is how this country was founded and how this country is still run. No black man will ever be considered for president, no matter how hard you run Jesse [Jackson] and no black woman can ever be considered for anything outside what she can give with her body.” “We supported Zionism shamelessly while ignoring the Palestinians and branding anybody who spoke out against it as being anti-Semitic. . . . We care nothing about human life if the end justifies the means. . . .” ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2008, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vile-filthy-racist-remarks-by-obamas-pastor/441421/72 "2008-03-15T04:36:14Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] Do you beleive that Obama himself is a believer in “Black Liberation ideology?” Do you believe that Obama is secretly an America hating Black Nationalist who wants to kill whitey? [/QUOTE] I believe he attended a church that does and that he supported it with money. I believe he denounced what was said and kept on supporting it anyway. Tell me I’m wrong. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2008, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vile-filthy-racist-remarks-by-obamas-pastor/441421/73 "2008-03-15T04:36:44Z")
[QUOTE=Two and a Half Inches of Fun] I have heard his statements and I do not buy them. He could not have been a member of this church for 20 years and not have known that the pastor and congregation held these positions. I have known a few people that were into black liberation theology and the beliefs that the government addicts blacks to drugs and invented HIV is were positions they all held. Obama choose to attend a church with a pastor that is a supporter of black liberation theology and he cannot reasonably claim that he just became aware of these sentiments in his church. Read some stuff by supporters of black liberation philosophy. [/QUOTE] Did you read that he denounced this almost the day the sermon came out? Or are you ignoring what was posted? And you are ignoring that what Obama said does not exclude being aware of it or him being at odds with it, as the cites show, Obama has criticized them before. [QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] McCain can’t use it against him in the General because he still has Hagee’s cock in his own mouth. [/QUOTE] Damn, where is the brain bleach?!? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2008, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vile-filthy-racist-remarks-by-obamas-pastor/441421/74 "2008-03-15T04:36:45Z")
I see more of the same there, **Magiver** , but no racism. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2008, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vile-filthy-racist-remarks-by-obamas-pastor/441421/75 "2008-03-15T04:38:43Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] He was only associated in a tangential way as part of a “spirtual advisory committe,” not as a shaper of policy or strategy or anything. Anyway, he has no association at all anymore. [/QUOTE] There’s no anyway to it. Obama disavowed him before. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2008, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vile-filthy-racist-remarks-by-obamas-pastor/441421/76 "2008-03-15T04:41:12Z")
[QUOTE=Marley23] I see more of the same there, **Magiver** , but no racism. [/QUOTE] He’s calling white people racists and the country at large Zionists. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2008, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vile-filthy-racist-remarks-by-obamas-pastor/441421/77 "2008-03-15T04:42:16Z")
[QUOTE=Magiver] We believe in white supremacy and black inferiority and believe it more than we believe in God." [/quote] A belief that America is racist (even if the belief is wrong or exaggerated) is not, in itself, a racist belief. > [@](#): > > “We’ve got more black men in prison than there are in college,” This is true. > [@](#): > > "Racism is alive and well. Racism is how this country was founded and how this country is still run. The first two of those statements are true. The third one is debatable but not withiout merit. In any case, _none_ of those statements are racist. > [@](#): > > No black man will ever be considered for president, no matter how hard you run Jesse [Jackson] and no black woman can ever be considered for anything outside what she can give with her body." Pessimistic and cynical and maybe a little paranoid but not racist. A belief that America is still a racist culture is not itself a racist belief even if it’s wrong or exaggerated. > [@](#): > > "We supported Zionism shamelessly while ignoring the Palestinians and branding anybody who spoke out against it as being anti-Semitic. All of this is essentially true and none it is racist. “Zionism” does not equal “jews.” quote]. . . We care nothing about human life if the end justifies the means. . . [/QUOTE] It’s hard to argue _against_[ that sentiment lately and even if you disagree, it’s still not _racist._. Not that anything wright says proves one thing about Obama. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2008, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vile-filthy-racist-remarks-by-obamas-pastor/441421/78 "2008-03-15T04:43:01Z")
[QUOTE=GIGObuster] Did you read that he denounced this almost the day the sermon came out? Or are you ignoring what was posted? And you are ignoring that what Obama said does not exclude being aware of it or him being at odds with it, as the cites show, Obama has criticized them before. Damn, where is the brain bleach?!? [/QUOTE] Did you not understand that denouncing it the day it happened and continuing to support the church is a contradiction? Stop drinking the bleach. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2008, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vile-filthy-racist-remarks-by-obamas-pastor/441421/79 "2008-03-15T04:44:01Z")
[QUOTE=Magiver] He’s calling white people racists and the country at large Zionists. [/QUOTE] How is that racist even if it’s wrong? ETA, America IS very supportive of Zionism. You don’t deny that, do you? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2008, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vile-filthy-racist-remarks-by-obamas-pastor/441421/80 "2008-03-15T04:46:06Z")
[QUOTE=Magiver] We believe in white supremacy and black inferiority and believe it more than we believe in God." “We’ve got more black men in prison than there are in college,” he began. “Racism is alive and well. Racism is how this country was founded and how this country is still run. No black man will ever be considered for president, no matter how hard you run Jesse [Jackson] and no black woman can ever be considered for anything outside what she can give with her body.” “We supported Zionism shamelessly while ignoring the Palestinians and branding anybody who spoke out against it as being anti-Semitic. . . . We care nothing about human life if the end justifies the means. . . .” [/QUOTE] So denouncing racism is racist? It seems he is describing items many people do indeed ignore that show that racism is still affecting the decisions America is taking. What he is guilty is for abusing hyperbole. [QUOTE=Magiver] He’s calling white people racists and the country at large Zionists. [/QUOTE] No he is not, the point here is that ignoring the Palestinians is racist. I would think he is including himself on the support of Zionism. (again, hyperbole) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vile-filthy-racist-remarks-by-obamas-pastor/441421.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vile-filthy-racist-remarks-by-obamas-pastor/441421.md?page=5)