# Villains helping the good guys? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 26, 2006, 9:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/villains-helping-the-good-guys/358297 "2006-05-26T09:15:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![J.Z.Knuckles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecccb3/32.png) [@J.Z.Knuckles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/J.Z.Knuckles)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2006, 9:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/villains-helping-the-good-guys/358297/1 "2006-05-26T09:15:10Z")
Hi all, I’d like to take another noisy slurp from the SDMB fountain of knowledge: Villains. I love 'em. I’m on the lookout for examples of a rather specific kind of villain/hero interaction: when the villain calls a temporary truce of sorts and voluntarily works together with the heroes on a certain task. When I say voluntarily, a certain amount of coercion is acceptable but I don’t want examples where the villain has been medicated, hypnotised, brainwashed or otherwise had his or her nature changed in order that he assist the good guys. Also, the villain should truly be helping, not merely pretending to help while actually foiling the plan, nor where his primary intention is to turn against the heroes at the last step. Lastly, the villain should be a bona fide villain, rather than someone who is just considered a bit mean, or the sinister-seeming guy who is ‘misunderstood’ (such as Boo Radley or _the Discworld_’s Death). Nor an ex-bad-guy trying to make amends, either. One particular example springs to mind for me: the _Buffy the Vampire Slayer_ season 2 finale where Spike and Buffy team up to prevent Angelus from awakening Acathla and destroying the world. Or something. Also I’ve just been watching _Sam Kieth’s The Maxx_ videos on YouTube, where the villainous Mr Gone seems to alternate capriciously between guiding and screwing with the main characters. Any others? ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2006, 9:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/villains-helping-the-good-guys/358297/2 "2006-05-26T09:21:10Z")
Does it have to be TV series? Because in comics there’s tons of examples. X-Men’s “God Loves, Man Kills” (I think that’s the English name) is one of the best. ---
**Author:** ![J.Z.Knuckles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecccb3/32.png) [@J.Z.Knuckles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/J.Z.Knuckles)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2006, 9:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/villains-helping-the-good-guys/358297/3 "2006-05-26T09:35:37Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > Does it have to be TV series? Nope, any medium at all: TV, comics, books, movies, anything. ---
**Author:** ![Dusty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a183cd/32.png) [@Dusty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dusty)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2006, 9:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/villains-helping-the-good-guys/358297/4 "2006-05-26T09:54:30Z")
Murdoch and MacGuyer team up to save Murdoch’s daughter (as I recall) from his former employer in one episode of _MacGuyer_. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2006, 9:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/villains-helping-the-good-guys/358297/5 "2006-05-26T09:59:06Z")
I think it happens in _Blade_ (or _Blade II_); the bad guys are vampires, the good guy is Blade - a sort of redeemed/modified vampire/vampire slayer, but they (try to) work together to defeat an enemy that is a threat to all of them. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2006, 10:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/villains-helping-the-good-guys/358297/6 "2006-05-26T10:29:21Z")
The Star Trek: DS9 episode _To the Death_, the good guys team up with a group of Jem’Hedar to stop a rebel faction from gaining control of a Gateway, which would have doomed both sides. ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2006, 11:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/villains-helping-the-good-guys/358297/7 "2006-05-26T11:15:53Z")
I haven’t read it, but my wife tells me that Harry Turtledove has an alternate history series where alien invaders land in the middle of WWII, and the Allies and Axis join together to fight the common menace. ---
**Author:** ![Menocchio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de053/32.png) [@Menocchio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Menocchio)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2006, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/villains-helping-the-good-guys/358297/8 "2006-05-26T11:35:42Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > Does it have to be TV series? > > Because in comics there’s tons of examples. X-Men’s “God Loves, Man Kills” (I think that’s the English name) is one of the best. As seen in the film X-Men 2. ---
**Author:** ![BMalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2006, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/villains-helping-the-good-guys/358297/9 "2006-05-26T11:44:00Z")
> [@C K Dexter Haven](#): > > I haven’t read it, but my wife tells me that Harry Turtledove has an alternate history series where alien invaders land in the middle of WWII, and the Allies and Axis join together to fight the common menace. The _WorldWar_ series, quite good. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2006, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/villains-helping-the-good-guys/358297/10 "2006-05-26T11:55:00Z")
Silence of the Lambs ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2006, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/villains-helping-the-good-guys/358297/11 "2006-05-26T11:56:01Z")
Well, sort of. ---
**Author:** ![Zabali\_Clawbane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ecd19e/32.png) [@Zabali\_Clawbane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zabali_Clawbane)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2006, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/villains-helping-the-good-guys/358297/12 "2006-05-26T12:00:20Z")
One of the final scenes in the movie [Blade Runner](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blade_Runner) is an excellent example IMO. The surviving replicant saves the life of the Blade Runner who has been hunting him down to “retire” him. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2006, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/villains-helping-the-good-guys/358297/13 "2006-05-26T12:11:19Z")
DC Comics’ original _Crisis on Infinite Earths_ was an example, as well. All the heroes and villains came together to defeat the Anti-Monitor, who was planning on destroying the normal matter universe. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2006, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/villains-helping-the-good-guys/358297/14 "2006-05-26T12:32:36Z")
There have been examples in comics going back at least to the 1960s, and almost certainly earlier. Old Carmine Infantino issues of **the Flash** had him teaming up with Captain Boomerang against alien invaders. **Superman** teamed up with a villain from The Phantom Zone (Jaxor?) against an alien (non-Kryptonian alien, of course) who claimed to have been responsible for blowing up Krypton. In **The Fantastic Four** the FF teamed up with Doctor Doom against The Overmind in the early 1970s. James Bond teamed up with a Russian agent against Stromberg (who was originally supposed to be Blofeld, I’m told, until they ran into legal issues) in the film **The Spy Who Loved Me** in 1977. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2006, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/villains-helping-the-good-guys/358297/15 "2006-05-26T12:46:27Z")
Dr. Who has teamed up with the Master from time to time. The one that comes to mind is in “Logopolis,” where the Master’s meddling has set in motion a process that will destroy the universe. The Master and the Doctor team up to fix it, though the Master double crosses him and tries to use it to his own advantage. ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2006, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/villains-helping-the-good-guys/358297/16 "2006-05-26T13:02:10Z")
Justice League Unlimited’s final two episodes. ---
**Author:** ![Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hey_It_s_That_Guy)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2006, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/villains-helping-the-good-guys/358297/17 "2006-05-26T13:26:45Z")
One of my favorite storylines in any media is heroes and villains working together against a common foe. In comics: The Shade went from cornball villain to badass antihero in the Starman comic, refusing to commit any crimes in his beloved adopted hometown of Opal City and then more or less becoming a good guy (with dark, violent tendencies). Solomon Grundy, Jake “Bobo” Bennetti (a superpowered bank robber), and crooked cop Matt O’Dare all joined the side of the angels as well. In Suicide Squad, one of the best comics of the late '80s and early '90s, incarcerated supervillains were given the option of serving on dangerous government missions in exchange for clemency. Some rose to the occasion and acted truly heroic, while others continued to backstab and act in their own interests. Deadshot, Captain Boomerang, Enchantress, Captain Cold, and even the Penguin were part of the rotating team of villains, serving alongside heroes like Vixen, Nemesis, and Nightshade. More recently, in Villains United, a small group of supervillains refused to join Lex Luthor’s Society, where hundreds of villains were banding together. The small team became known as the Secret Six, and was comprised of Catman, Deadshot, Chesire, Scandal (Vandal Savage’s daughter), Ragdoll (a son of the original), and a lone Parademon from Apokolips. Chesire turned out to be a traitor for the Society, but the Six revealed an ally of theirs WITHIN the Society: Scandal’s girlfriend Knockout. Catman even went so far as to warn Green Arrow (a superhero) of the Society’s evil master plan, and the Six saved a captured Firestorm from a Society facility, among other things. The Secret Six just started in a comic of their own, acting as more of a mercenary group. Some of Flash’s rogues (Pied Piper, Trickster, Captain Cold, Captain Boomerang, Heat Wave, and Weather Wizard) have temporarily reformed, or at least acted as Flash’s allies in the past. After the “Rogue War” storyline, I’m not sure if Piper and Trickster are still good guys or not, but all the rest are up to their old tricks again. However, most of the Rogues respected the second Flash, Barry Allen, enough to peacefully attend his funeral. In Fantastic Four vs. X-Men, a Marvel miniseries from the '80s, Dr. Doom agreed to help the X-Men save Shadowcat when she was trapped in her incorporeal “phased” form. And the X-Men seem to team up with their respective villains quite a bit: Magneto, Mystique, Sabretooth, Juggernaut, and Emma Frost have all fought alongside the X-Men, and even joined the team at different periods. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2006, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/villains-helping-the-good-guys/358297/18 "2006-05-26T13:32:05Z")
In _Moonraker,_ the villain Jaws helps Bond break free from the space station so he can go shoot down the poisonous satellites. Depending on your interpretation, Gollum’s actions in _The Two Towers_ might fall into this category of behavior. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2006, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/villains-helping-the-good-guys/358297/19 "2006-05-26T13:59:27Z")
The movie THE ROCKETEER where the FBI & the Mob stop shooting at each other & join to shoot at the Nazi invaders. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2006, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/villains-helping-the-good-guys/358297/20 "2006-05-26T14:55:20Z")
There was an old Superboy comic were Lex Luthor (after he had gone bald, so he was a bad guy) gets exposed to a Kryptonian “reform ray” and helps out Superboy until it wears off (it might be the story “Jor-El’s Visit to Earth”). [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/villains-helping-the-good-guys/358297.md?page=2)