# Vini Vidi Vici **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 23, 2003, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vini-vidi-vici/203286 "2003-09-23T10:52:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![BwanaBob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bwanabob/32/2985_2.png) [@BwanaBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BwanaBob)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2003, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vini-vidi-vici/203286/21 "2003-09-23T16:51:13Z")
I’m shocked that no one has mentioned the correct pronunciation of this famous phrase. I had a university friend chide me for mispronouncing it (since I never took a Latin course). Hint to those I’ve confused: This is not an Italian phrase; “v” is pronounced like English “w” in Latin. And the “c” represents a “k” sound. The VISA ad perpetuates the mispronunciation. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2003, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vini-vidi-vici/203286/22 "2003-09-23T17:05:36Z")
Yeah, and it depressed me to think about Julius Caesar saying “Way-nee, wee-dee, wee-kee” with a straight face. ---
**Author:** ![Jabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@Jabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jabba)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2003, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vini-vidi-vici/203286/23 "2003-09-23T22:55:08Z")
My French is also rusty, but _que_ is not a subject in French, is it? Wouldn’t it be _Qu’est-ce qui sera, sera_? ---
**Author:** ![Motog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85e7bf/32.png) [@Motog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Motog)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2003, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vini-vidi-vici/203286/24 "2003-09-23T23:25:42Z")
Or Terry Pratchett’s version “Veni, veneri, vamoosi” - I came, I caught an embarrassing disease, I ran away. … 10…9… 8 …(counting down to the first reply to tell me what is wrong with my Latin) ---
**Author:** ![ltfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@ltfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ltfire)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2003, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vini-vidi-vici/203286/25 "2003-09-23T23:46:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jabba \* > \*\*It’s _veni_, incidentally, perfect tense of _venire_, to come. \*\* I LOVE to venire. ---
**Author:** ![MonkeyMensch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@MonkeyMensch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MonkeyMensch)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2003, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vini-vidi-vici/203286/26 "2003-09-24T01:29:53Z")
I’d like to start a folk etymology at this point. To ‘come’, as a euphemism for orgasm, stems from 17th usage. Educated people of the time punned on the similarity between _venereus_ (lust) and _venire_ (come.) This sort of wordplay was thought the height of fashion at the time. ---
**Author:** ![Askance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askance/32/8281_2.png) [@Askance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askance)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2003, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vini-vidi-vici/203286/27 "2003-09-24T01:41:01Z")
> [@](#): > > Yeah, and it depressed me to think about Julius Caesar saying “Way-nee, wee-dee, wee-kee” with a straight face. It was all part of a cunning plan, as exposed by Sellar and Yeatman: “The Britons, however, who of course still used the old pronunciation, understanding him to have called them ‘Weeny, Weedy, and Weaky’, lost heart and gave up the struggle, thinking that he had already divided them All into Three Parts” ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2003, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vini-vidi-vici/203286/28 "2003-09-24T01:48:59Z")
I’m amazed that no one’s caught this but it’s _vi **n** ci_, not vici (pronounced wee-nky). It’s from the verb, _vincere_, which means “to conquer, overcome.” It’s where we get words like “invincible” and “convince.” ---
**Author:** ![eburacum45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eburacum45/32/8690_2.png) [@eburacum45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eburacum45)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2003, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vini-vidi-vici/203286/29 "2003-09-24T03:10:44Z")
vinco, vincis, vici, victum, vincere ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2003, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vini-vidi-vici/203286/30 "2003-09-24T03:25:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by BwanaBob \* > \*\*I’m shocked that no one has mentioned the correct pronunciation of this famous phrase. I had a university friend chide me for mispronouncing it (since I never took a Latin course). > > Hint to those I’ve confused: This is not an Italian phrase; “v” is pronounced like English “w” in Latin. And the “c” represents a “k” sound.\*\* So did your friend also correct you on the pronunciation of J.C.'s name: Yoolioos Kaysar? The point being that regardless how the scholars believe the ancient Romans spoke, there is a customary English pronunciation of well-known Latin phrases and names, and unless one is in the presence of classicists, that customary pronunciation is perfectly acceptable. Or, as the Lord Chief Justice put it in _Rex v. Venables et al._, in A.P. Herbert, _Uncommon Law_: > [@](#): > > … _a priori, de jure, ultra vires, ex parte, status quo_ and many others. We have taken these words from Rome, as we have taken much of her law, and made them English. I do not believe that the wisest scholars can surely say how Julius Caesar pronounced his name, and I care nothing if they can. For if I had abundant proof that the general answered to Yoolioos Kaysar I should not be persuaded to say that an act of the Chimney Magna justices was _ooltrah weeraze_. It is safe to prophesy that these hateful sounds will never proceed from the lips of an English judge, however many inocent boys are instructed to make them at school. > … > It follows, I think, that a system of teaching Latin which runs contrary to the practical use of Latin wherever Latin is practically employed is wrong and ought to be abandoned. This has been said before; but it is time for it to be said by one of His Majesty’s judges. For our profession more than any other employs the naked Latin word as it was written by the Romans; and we alone are in a position to enforce our will upon this matter by guiding the speech of those who practise before us. > … > The New Pronunciation is dead and must be buried. > The Court rose. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2003, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vini-vidi-vici/203286/31 "2003-09-24T03:47:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by eburacum45 \* > \*\*vinco, vincis, vici, victum, vincere \*\* I see that I’ve put my foot in my mouth. The first person perfect quite clearly drops the “n.” I’m going to slink away quietly now. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2003, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vini-vidi-vici/203286/32 "2003-09-24T05:09:43Z")
Since others have handled the scholarly side quite well, I’ll just add “Veni, vidi, velcro”: “I came, I saw, I stuck around”. It’s said, incidentally, that Caesar’s original utterance of the phrase was the shortest political speech in history. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2003, 10:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vini-vidi-vici/203286/33 "2003-09-28T10:22:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Roches \* > \*\*Gyrate, a Spanish motto would be extremely rare. Almost all mottoes are in Latin. A few mottoes are in Classical Greek, but these seem to be more commonly associated with academic institutions than with families. If you got your coat of arms from a “heraldry store”, you might want to research the authenticity of the coats-of-arms such stores sell. [This site](http://www.baronage.co.uk/) includes a very scathing review of heraldry and title sales. Apparently mottoes are only official for Scots who bear a coat of arms (and arms must pass patrilineally from nobles who have been granted arms). I was disappointed to find out that stores selling coats of arms are not very legitimate – their products are more like souvenirs than legitimate heraldic articles. \*\* Apart from the language issue, I should point out that it is indeed a real coat-of-arms for my family – just not necessarily my branch of it. The current “official” holders of the coat-of-arms are Lord and Lady Tavistock of Bloomsbury, whom I’ve actually met in passing (and such an…_interesting_…couple they are, too) although the family connection is too far removed in time and space to matter at all. As I said, it just amuses me that that particular motto is the one given. Back to the OP: there was a scene in _Married to the Mob_ (IIRC) in which we see the words “Veni, veni, veni” carved into a hotel room bed headboard. Subtle but very funny. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2003, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vini-vidi-vici/203286/34 "2003-09-28T16:05:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Chefguy \* > \*\*My family crest has the motto: “Voulez vous couchez avec moi?” and a picture of a lamp post. \*\* IIRC, coucher is a reflexive verb and that should be “Voulez-vous vous coucher avec moi?” And are members of your family generally on such formal terms with people you want to sleep with? Next time, try “Veus-tu te coucher avec moi?” ---
**Author:** ![Jabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@Jabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jabba)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2003, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vini-vidi-vici/203286/35 "2003-09-29T12:01:14Z")
YRI. The reflexive verb _se coucher_ means simply “to go to bed”; “to have sex with” is the transitive verb _coucher_. ---
**Author:** ![Jabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@Jabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jabba)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2003, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vini-vidi-vici/203286/36 "2003-09-29T14:45:35Z")
There is an error in my last post: _coucher_ is intransitive, as it does not take a direct object. It is _coucher avec quelqu’un_. Also, as well as “go to bed”, _se coucher_ can mean “to lie down”. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2003, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vini-vidi-vici/203286/37 "2003-09-29T14:50:41Z")
> [@](#): > > And are members of your family generally on such formal terms with people you want to sleep with? It’s a fairly common joke and is featured in the Eleventh Hour’s “Lady Marmalade.” ---
**Author:** ![Jake4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/bc8723/32.png) [@Jake4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jake4)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2003, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vini-vidi-vici/203286/38 "2003-09-29T20:47:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Chronos \* > \*\*It’s said, incidentally, that Caesar’s original utterance of the phrase was the shortest political speech in history. \*\* Shorter than Louis? L’etat, c’est moi. Same number of letters. ---
**Author:** ![Tallayan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Tallayan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tallayan)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2003, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vini-vidi-vici/203286/39 "2003-09-29T21:24:32Z")
On the subject of family crests here are some from feet of clay by Terry Pratchett Edward St John de Nobbes: “capite omnia” – “take it all” Gerhardt Sock (butcher): “futurus meus est in visceris” – “my future is in the entrails” Vetinari: “si non confectus non reficiat” – “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it” (a saying popularised by Lyndon B Johnson, though possibly older) Assassins Guild: “nil mortifice sine lucre” – “no killing without payment” Rudolph Potts (baker): “quod subigo farinam” – “because I knead the dough” Thieves’ Guild: “acutus id verberat” – “sharp’s the word” Vimes family: “protego et servio” – “I protect and serve”. In the centre of the crest is the number 177, which – we learnt in Men at Arms – is Vimes’ own badge number. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vini-vidi-vici/203286.md?page=1)