# Vintage Luxury: The Boeing 314 Flying Boat **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [February 18, 2011, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vintage-luxury-the-boeing-314-flying-boat/571782 "2011-02-18T04:17:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2011, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vintage-luxury-the-boeing-314-flying-boat/571782/1 "2011-02-18T04:17:58Z")
Man, they don’t make 'em like this anymore. [The Boeing 314 Flying Boat](http://www.boingboing.net/2011/02/15/lost-luxury-the-boei.html). Plied the airways in the 1930s and 1940s. Sleeper bunks, formal dining. A private honeymoon suite in the tail, much more conducive to the Mile High Club. **“Could whisk passengers off to such far off places as Hawaii and China in only a matter of a few days.”** Especially good photos [here](http://www.asb.tv/blog/2011/02/boeing-314-flying-boat/). ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2011, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vintage-luxury-the-boeing-314-flying-boat/571782/2 "2011-02-18T04:23:26Z")
I’ve posted a link to these things before (I think there was a famous incident I accounted regarding either one of these planes or one very similar to it in video format) but nevertheless, here’s Wiki’s take on it, and it includes operation as a troop transport carrier during WWII. Would that planes be more like this today! > **[Boeing 314 Clipper](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_314)** > > The Boeing 314 Clipper was an American long-range flying boat produced by Boeing from 1938 to 1941. One of the largest aircraft of its time, it had the range to cross the Atlantic and Pacific oceans. For its wing, Boeing re-used the design from the earlier XB-15 bomber prototype. Twelve Clippers were built, nine of which served with Pan Am. > Pan American had requested a truly trans-Pacific flying boat with unprecedented range and double the passenger payload of the airline's Martin M-130. Boein... ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2011, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vintage-luxury-the-boeing-314-flying-boat/571782/3 "2011-02-18T04:39:55Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > … includes operation as a troop transport carrier during WWII. I wonder who all got to use the honeymoon suite. ---
**Author:** ![OttoDaFe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ottodafe/32/356_2.png) [@OttoDaFe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OttoDaFe)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2011, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vintage-luxury-the-boeing-314-flying-boat/571782/4 "2011-02-18T06:04:46Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > I wonder who all got to use the honeymoon suite. To borrow a WWI term, “40 men or 8 horses.” ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2011, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vintage-luxury-the-boeing-314-flying-boat/571782/5 "2011-02-18T06:31:49Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > …Plied the airways in the 1930s and 1940s. Sleeper bunks, formal dining. A private honeymoon suite in the tail, much more conducive to the Mile High Club… You can’t get that kind of luxury today unless you can afford to private a charter jet. Granted the kind of people who back then are the kind of people who travel by private jet now. Oh, and speaking of early mile high club members; I had a great aunt who scandalized the family when she flew back from a junior year abroad in Germany in the 1930s. Apparently she “shared a cabin” on the Hindenburg with another young man who was also studying abroad. She only had complaint about that flight. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2011, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vintage-luxury-the-boeing-314-flying-boat/571782/6 "2011-02-18T07:44:25Z")
Similar design: [Martin Mars flying hotel.](http://image10.webshots.com/11/2/20/55/130922055JiQrMd_ph.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![EvilTOJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee59a6/32.png) [@EvilTOJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EvilTOJ)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2011, 10:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vintage-luxury-the-boeing-314-flying-boat/571782/7 "2011-02-18T10:54:52Z")
When I’m a billionaire I’ll buy or build one, props and all. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2011, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vintage-luxury-the-boeing-314-flying-boat/571782/8 "2011-02-18T13:18:48Z")
> [@EvilTOJ](#): > > When I’m a billionaire I’ll buy or build one, props and all. It’s long been my dream that, upon becoming a successful billionaire playboy, I’ll start an airline exclusively using modernised replicas flying boats from the 30s and 40s- lots of Sunderlands and Boeing “Pan Am Clippers” and so on. And they’ll offer those long, meandering routes that stop at lots of interesting places, including otherwise unremarkable (but still beautiful) islands in the Pacific Ocean. ---
**Author:** ![Ale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@Ale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ale)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2011, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vintage-luxury-the-boeing-314-flying-boat/571782/9 "2011-02-18T13:27:44Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > You can’t get that kind of luxury today unless you can afford to private a charter jet. Granted the kind of people who back then are the kind of people who travel by private jet now. Oh, and speaking of early mile high club members; I had a great aunt who scandalized the family when she flew back from a junior year abroad in Germany in the 1930s. Apparently she “shared a cabin” on the Hindenburg with another young man who was also studying abroad. She only had complaint about that flight. 😉 Ah, but a private jet doesn’t even come close to the interior space in those old airliners; check the photos on Sam’s second link, the next to last one before the plane drawings. That guy is _inside_ the wing. Flying boats by necessity have spacious hulls/fuselages, not only to have an adequate planning surface width at the bottom but also high enough to keep the propellers well above the water surface. Besides, you may have to snazziest private jet in the world, but you still need to land it at an airport. With one of these you can land just off the beach of your tropical island hideaway. That’s like 50+ points of style right there. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2011, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vintage-luxury-the-boeing-314-flying-boat/571782/10 "2011-02-18T13:36:51Z")
There are a couple of preserved flying boats from the Golden Era Of Flying Boats in museums around the world, and from what I recall of the ones I’ve seen, the cabin accommodations were about the same as Business Class in a modern airliner before the trend for modernist design and LCD screens in things, in case anyone was wondering. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2011, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vintage-luxury-the-boeing-314-flying-boat/571782/11 "2011-02-18T13:51:21Z")
How much riskier was it to fly on one of those things compared to other commercial aircraft (land-based) of that era? Doesn’t landing a behemoth like that on water present its own unique set of challenges and risks? ---
**Author:** ![Skara\_Brae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f0a364/32.png) [@Skara\_Brae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skara_Brae)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2011, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vintage-luxury-the-boeing-314-flying-boat/571782/12 "2011-02-18T14:25:17Z")
That’s really cool. Ken Follett’s novel [Night Over Water](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_Over_Water) was set on one of those. I had a really hard time envisioning the space as I was reading it. A diagram really would have helped! ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2011, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vintage-luxury-the-boeing-314-flying-boat/571782/13 "2011-02-18T17:36:58Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > There are a couple of preserved flying boats from the Golden Era Of Flying Boats in museums around the world,… Sadly, no 314s are among them; twelve built, all scrapped. ---
**Author:** ![blondebear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blondebear/32/1022_2.png) [@blondebear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blondebear)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2011, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vintage-luxury-the-boeing-314-flying-boat/571782/14 "2011-02-18T18:19:40Z")
Great book on the the subject: [Pan American Clippers: The Golden Age of Flying Boats](http://www.amazon.com/Pan-American-Clippers-Golden-Flying/dp/1550464760/). Lots of pictures and stories of the 314, the Martin M130 and the Sikorsky S40 and S42. There is a [full-sized replica of a 314](http://flyingboatmuseum.com/b314_replica.html) at the Foynes Flying Boat Museum in Ireland. ---
**Author:** ![mnemosyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c4cdca/32.png) [@mnemosyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mnemosyne)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2011, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vintage-luxury-the-boeing-314-flying-boat/571782/15 "2011-02-18T20:06:03Z")
> [@Ale](#): > > Ah, but a private jet doesn’t even come close to the interior space in those old airliners… I dare say the [Boeing Business Jets](http://www.boeing.com/commercial/bbj/) and [Airbus Corporate Jets](http://www.airbus.com/aircraftfamilies/corporate/) (particularly the 747-8 VIP and A380) are rather more spacious. On the more typical “business jet” scale, although narrower, the [Global Express](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombardier_Global_Express)is a similar length and height to the Clipper, and feels rather roomy as well. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2011, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vintage-luxury-the-boeing-314-flying-boat/571782/16 "2011-02-18T21:06:18Z")
For a really interesting first-hand account of flying those kind of aircraft in their heyday, check out [Through the Back Doors of the World in a Ship That Had Wings](http://www.amazon.com/Through-Back-Doors-World-Wings/sim/053305818X/2). ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2011, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vintage-luxury-the-boeing-314-flying-boat/571782/17 "2011-02-18T23:53:16Z")
[The best Boeing 314 story](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_Clipper) - the trip _Pacific Clipper_ made from New Zealand _westward_ to the US, via India, Arabia, Africa, South America, and the Caribbean, after the Pearl Harbor attack. Capt. Robert Ford landed her on rivers and refueled with auto gas where he could find it, The best part was the dawn arrival at La Guardia’s Marine Air Terminal, when Ford woke the controller with one of the classic radio calls: ““Pan Am Pacific Clipper, inbound from Auckland, New Zealand, Captain Ford reporting. Overhead in five minutes.”” 😃 Also, see Pat O’Brien and Humphrey Bogart in _China Clipper_ the next time it comes around on TCM. The Sikorsky S-44 in Hartford and the (militarized) Shorts Sunderland in Hendon give some idea of what those planes were like, but also why they were obsoleted as soon as long-range land planes and long paved runways to handle them became available (another WW2 effect). As elegant as they seem in the old posters, they were also slow, loud, and treacherous on the water. Even in the air - there has still been no trace of _Hawaii Clipper_. ---
**Author:** ![N9IWP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/n9iwp/32/3154_2.png) [@N9IWP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/N9IWP)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2011, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vintage-luxury-the-boeing-314-flying-boat/571782/18 "2011-02-19T00:01:23Z")
I’d settle for a Grumman Mallard (maybe I get get one for Chaulk’s) For something a little more modern, how about a Dornier Seastar? [Dornier Seastar - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dornier_Seastar) (Dornier website not working for me) Brian flying boat fan ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2011, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vintage-luxury-the-boeing-314-flying-boat/571782/19 "2011-02-19T01:37:41Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > [The best Boeing 314 story](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_Clipper) - the trip _Pacific Clipper_ made from New Zealand _westward_ to the US, via India, Arabia, Africa, South America, and the Caribbean, after the Pearl Harbor attack. Capt. Robert Ford landed her on rivers and refueled with auto gas where he could find it, The best part was the dawn arrival at La Guardia’s Marine Air Terminal, when Ford woke the controller with one of the classic radio calls: ““Pan Am Pacific Clipper, inbound from Auckland, New Zealand, Captain Ford reporting. Overhead in five minutes.”” 😃 > > Also, see Pat O’Brien and Humphrey Bogart in _China Clipper_ the next time it comes around on TCM. > > The Sikorsky S-44 in Hartford and the (militarized) Shorts Sunderland in Hendon give some idea of what those planes were like, but also why they were obsoleted as soon as long-range land planes and long paved runways to handle them became available (another WW2 effect). As elegant as they seem in the old posters, they were also slow, loud, and treacherous on the water. Even in the air - there has still been no trace of _Hawaii Clipper_. Ah, that was the one I had posted on here at some point in the past. What a cool story. I asked upthread about the risk associated with flying on these water-landing behemoths versus land-based aircraft from the same time frame. Anyone know if they were a riskier way to travel than conventionally? ---
**Author:** ![mnemosyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c4cdca/32.png) [@mnemosyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mnemosyne)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2011, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vintage-luxury-the-boeing-314-flying-boat/571782/20 "2011-02-19T02:39:46Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > I asked upthread about the risk associated with flying on these water-landing behemoths versus land-based aircraft from the same time frame. Anyone know if they were a riskier way to travel than conventionally? This is a really interesting question and I’m looking forward to the answer! In my very (very!) limited knowledge involving the accidents and incidents involving the CL-215/215-T/415 from Bombardier - which to me seems to be a more-or-less modern-day model of the Clipper given it’s amphibious nature (and one of my favourite planes!)- the majority of incidents/accidents _seem_ to be due to mishandling the approach, controls or other operation during water scooping or water landing. Things like porpoising, striking the wing floats, failure in opening or closing water doors appropriately, or flipping over. HOWEVER (and that’s a big however!) the CL-415 and its predecessors are fire-fighting aircraft, where rapid manoeuvrings and functionality on any available water source takes huge precedent over crew/passenger comfort, pilots are under much more stress and fatigue than commercial pilots, and most destination-to-destination landings are done conventionally, on land. Still; waves, wind, smoke, pilot stress and other factors make it seem that landing on water is generally harder than landing on land. More importantly, perhaps, is that the passenger survivability on water is significantly reduced than it is on land - hypothermia and drowning don’t really occur on land, though fire is a greater risk. Keep in mind that any weather that affects a land-based airport will also affect water surfaces in the area. A runway remains flat even in a blizzard. A lake does not, and so is that much more risky. Again, I stress that I am as far from an expert as you can imagine, but knowing what I know about accidents, incidents and their causes (a hobby of mine), I feel pretty comfortable concluding that water landings are, on average, less safe than land-based ones.