# Violation: Showing up VERY late for a multi-party, table reservation dinner **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 6, 2009, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/violation-showing-up-very-late-for-a-multi-party-table-reservation-dinner/509050 "2009-09-06T08:14:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2009, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/violation-showing-up-very-late-for-a-multi-party-table-reservation-dinner/509050/181 "2009-09-09T03:29:22Z")
No, let’s keep playing Inspector Parker about it. Anybody have any idea what part of the country the OP lives in? If this were the internet of 1970, we’d know it was in Las Vegas (or Monte Carlo, Monaco, or Macao :p), but saying you were in a casino in 2009 doesn’t really narrow anything down. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2009, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/violation-showing-up-very-late-for-a-multi-party-table-reservation-dinner/509050/182 "2009-09-09T03:33:26Z")
> [@DudleyGarrett](#): > > Just tell us what the name of the fucking restaurant is already. Christ! I’m putting my money on “Emerils”. It’s the only TV chef I can think of whose high-end restaurants are named after him and can be found in a casino (Bethlehem, PA Sands Casino and MGM Grand in Vegas..I’m betting on the former given the “tackiness”). > [@Dangerosa](#): > > I’m from the “you invite, you pay” school - which involves no quibbling…or the separate check school - which also involves no quibbling (And isn’t a big deal here in Minneapolis). While I’ve gone out with people whom I’m never worried about ending up with enough (those “I think we tipped 40%, does anyone want a few bucks back” dinners)- I’ve also been on the “bend over” end of Ms. Sushi Cosmo and $10 in her wallet…and I’ve been there at times when I can ill afford to support someone else’s sushi and cosmo habit. Well, I’m not familiar with “Minneapolis Rules”. But “you invite, you pay” only applies in Manhattan when it’s a family or business meal or a date. So if someone happens to invite you out to Nobu or Del Frisco’s, you better bring your wallet. ---
**Author:** ![zweisamkeit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zweisamkeit/32/4360_2.png) [@zweisamkeit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zweisamkeit)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2009, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/violation-showing-up-very-late-for-a-multi-party-table-reservation-dinner/509050/183 "2009-09-09T03:41:38Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > I’m putting my money on “Emerils”. It’s the only TV chef I can think of whose high-end restaurants are named after him and can be found in a casino (Bethlehem, PA Sands Casino and MGM Grand in Vegas..I’m betting on the former given the “tackiness”). If he was at a Detroit casino, Wolfgang Puck has a restaurant at the MGM Grand. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2009, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/violation-showing-up-very-late-for-a-multi-party-table-reservation-dinner/509050/184 "2009-09-09T03:50:06Z")
ISTM that if a TV chef has more than one restaurant, it counts as a chain. OTOH, if he doesn’t have more than one restaurant, how the hell did he get to be a TV chef? Is this a trick, **St. Anger**? ---
**Author:** ![Long\_Time\_Lurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/2bfe46/32.png) [@Long\_Time\_Lurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Long_Time_Lurker)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2009, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/violation-showing-up-very-late-for-a-multi-party-table-reservation-dinner/509050/185 "2009-09-09T03:55:39Z")
> [@zweisamkeit](#): > > If he was at a Detroit casino, Wolfgang Puck has a restaurant at the MGM Grand. This was my guess as well. I’ve eaten at an “express” version of Wolfgang Puck and was very underwhelmed. ---
**Author:** ![Long\_Time\_Lurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/2bfe46/32.png) [@Long\_Time\_Lurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Long_Time_Lurker)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2009, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/violation-showing-up-very-late-for-a-multi-party-table-reservation-dinner/509050/186 "2009-09-09T04:10:54Z")
> [@Rilchiam](#): > > Paying what you owe doesn’t have to mean poring over the bill and dividing it to the penny. You can round off and pay an **appropriate** amount for what **you** ordered. Some have a habit of underestimating and “forgetting” about appropriate tax and tip when they estimate. The few times I was involved in a pay an appropriate amount bill split, the unlucky person who took control of the bill inevitably paid way more than their proportionate share. ---
**Author:** ![tacoloco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tacoloco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tacoloco)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2009, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/violation-showing-up-very-late-for-a-multi-party-table-reservation-dinner/509050/187 "2009-09-09T04:25:14Z")
> [@St.Anger](#): > > Of course not. I’m the “pain in the ass”, right? > > As for all this, hey, the Poster tried to get smart with me, that’s fair game, but he started it, and I finished it. Waaaah! But Mom! He started it. Last time I heard that was from my kids when they were little. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![wierdaaron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/eada6e/32.png) [@wierdaaron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wierdaaron)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2009, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/violation-showing-up-very-late-for-a-multi-party-table-reservation-dinner/509050/188 "2009-09-09T04:31:25Z")
> [@DudleyGarrett](#): > > Just tell us what the name of the fucking restaurant is already. Christ! It’s apparently called Neither Here Nor There. I’m guessing something Emeril or Bobby Flay related. Or, in another direction, Wolfgang Puck. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2009, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/violation-showing-up-very-late-for-a-multi-party-table-reservation-dinner/509050/189 "2009-09-09T04:35:37Z")
Man some of you are tough cookies. There’s “inviting” and there’s INVITING. Which is which? Case #1: BG: It’s my birthday and I’d like to invite you all out to the Grammercy Park Tavern, my favorite restaurant. Gang of friends: Woohoo! Judge says: Birthday girl should pay. Case #2: BG: Hey. What do you guys say to going out this weekend? I feel like having a nice night out. Something really special. Gang of friends: That might make a nice change! Any reason in particular? Also, where should we go? BG: It’s my birthday. I dunno, I was just thinking we might try something fancy. Gang of friends: It’s your birthday? We forgot! Oh definitely, let’s go wherever you want! BG: Well, I always kinda wanted to try Grammercy Tavern, but we can go somewhere else if we can think of something else. Gang of friends: Ooh, let’s do that! Woohoo! Judge says: Everyone pays his own way. Wouldn’t surprise me, in a group of close friends, if the Gang actually secretly agrees to pay for the BG. After the fact, one might casually say that BG#2 had ‘invited’ her friends to go out. But it’s a very different type of invite. Words mean things, but quite often the same word means two different things. > [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > I was reading one of the Laura Ingalls Wilder books (I think it was Little Town on the Prairie) and one form of party was the “dime social”. Guests brought a dime to give to the hostess, and I believe that the hostess provided tea and snacks. In that same book, Laura made $1.50 a week by sewing shirts, so a dime was 1/15 of her weekly wages. And those were considered good wages, too. > > Even if there was no stated price on visiting someone, it was widely accepted that one brought something, if one possibly could. It might be a dozen eggs, it might be some butter, it might be any sort of food or commodity. If one was widely known to be barely scraping by, then other people would usually give some staples, to prevent a starvation death. People DID starve to death. That’s funny you should bring up the _Little House_ books, because I was gonna refute **Dangerosa** too using the same books, but _By the Shores of Silver Lake_ and _The Hard Winter_ instead of _Little Town on the Prairie_. In both books, the Ingallses invite their friends/neighbors the Boasts to dinner. These are _not_ “pot luck” dinners where Mrs. Boast was expected to bring anything. Nevertheless, both times the Ingalls family is delighted when sweet, polite Mrs. Boast brings little gifts to enhance the meals: in the earlier book it’s a bag of popping corn; in _The Long Winter_ it’s a ball of butter from the Boasts’ cow. The latter is especially notable because Mr. and Mrs. Boast have nearly starved while suffering the winter out on their claim, but _still_ they are generous enough to offer a little gift to enhance the meal, because that’s the neighborly, generous thing to do. So while it wasn’t mandatory to bring a gift, it was certainly done, and even by people who were quite poor indeed – even near starvation. Also, **weirdaaron** , as a couple of others have said, a few TV chefs are indeed fine chefs. Gordon Ramsay is another (in addition to Morimoto and Flay) highly respected chef, and ditto Mario Batali, though in both cases the bloom is a bit off the rose. ---
**Author:** ![St.Anger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@St.Anger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/St.Anger)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2009, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/violation-showing-up-very-late-for-a-multi-party-table-reservation-dinner/509050/190 "2009-09-09T04:45:52Z")
> [@tacoloco](#): > > Waaaah! > > But Mom! He started it. > > Last time I heard that was from my kids when they were little. > > :rolleyes: Get a life. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2009, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/violation-showing-up-very-late-for-a-multi-party-table-reservation-dinner/509050/191 "2009-09-09T05:09:35Z")
Heh, I’ve also been poking around the internet, looking for this restaurant. It’s just pure curiosity, not any desire to talk bad about the OP. I’d feel ripped off dropping $150 on a mediocre meal anywhere, regardless of what I or others might consider high end. I seem to recall (and by “seem to recall” I mean “stalkerishly read old posts”) that the OP lives outside of Philly. So I’m imagining we are talking about Atlantic City. The intereor of the Bobby Flay Steakhouse seems pretty tacky and has the requisite white table clothes. However, there is no French onion soup on the menu and no green beans. Could it be a special? There are strip steaks on the menu (they seem to be a specialty) and the prices seem right. Couldn’t find a picture of the wait staff. Seems to be reservations only. Wolfgang Puck is reservations “recommended” and doesn’t have the white-tablecloth ambiance. Plus, no strip steak or French onion soup. I’d say, no. So far, I think it’s either Bobby Flay or the OP was on vacation somewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2009, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/violation-showing-up-very-late-for-a-multi-party-table-reservation-dinner/509050/192 "2009-09-09T05:35:05Z")
> [@Long\_Time\_Lurker](#): > > Some have a habit of underestimating and “forgetting” about appropriate tax and tip when they estimate. The few times I was involved in a pay an appropriate amount bill split, the unlucky person who took control of the bill inevitably paid way more than their proportionate share. Yeah, some people look at something that’s priced at $10.99, drop 11 bucks on the table, and figure that will cover their dinner…but they didn’t think about their drinks (which, if alcoholic, will add up quickly) or the tax and tip. I’ve taken control of the bill a time or two myself, and I always seem to end up paying two or three times what I should, between the “forgotten” items, the tax, and the tip. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2009, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/violation-showing-up-very-late-for-a-multi-party-table-reservation-dinner/509050/193 "2009-09-09T05:36:47Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > Heh, I’ve also been poking around the internet, looking for this restaurant. It’s just pure curiosity, not any desire to talk bad about the OP. I’d feel ripped off dropping $150 on a mediocre meal anywhere, regardless of what I or others might consider high end. Unless it’s $150 for two, in which you’re getting ripped off for $75 per person. That makes some difference. > [@](#): > > I seem to recall (and by “seem to recall” I mean “stalkerishly read old posts”) that the OP lives outside of Philly. So I’m imagining we are talking about Atlantic City. > > The intereor of the Bobby Flay Steakhouse seems pretty tacky and has the requisite white table clothes. However, there is no French onion soup on the menu and no green beans. Could it be a special? There are strip steaks on the menu (they seem to be a specialty) and the prices seem right. Couldn’t find a picture of the wait staff. Seems to be reservations only. Damn. Good research. I’d have to agree, the interior seems tacky. ---
**Author:** ![ivn1188](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e480ec/32.png) [@ivn1188](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivn1188)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2009, 7:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/violation-showing-up-very-late-for-a-multi-party-table-reservation-dinner/509050/194 "2009-09-09T07:47:26Z")
> [@St.Anger](#): > > 1. The actual name and location of the restaurant is neither here nor there. The point of the thread, again, is consideration for other peoples time and the restaurants time when it accepts reservations. Unfortunately, a handful of smart-asses and wanna-be Anton Egos thought this was Cafe Society and have decided that they are going to try and hijack the thread by mocking my apparent lack of knowledge of how to properly classify a restaurant. You seem to be making the basic mistake that anyone actually gives a shit about your intent in starting the thread. I think you went to a touristy “chef name” place and got served standard Americana – hardly culinary “high brow” fare. ---
**Author:** ![legalsnugs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/45deac/32.png) [@legalsnugs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/legalsnugs)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2009, 8:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/violation-showing-up-very-late-for-a-multi-party-table-reservation-dinner/509050/195 "2009-09-09T08:33:03Z")
> [@St.Anger](#): > > … The point of the thread, again, is consideration for other peoples time and the restaurants time when it accepts reservations. … Back to the OP: if it’s any consolation to you, the tardiness of the participants would be considered rude even if the restaurant did not require reservations or had white tablecloths. Extreme tardiness is rude. But that’s another thread, isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2009, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/violation-showing-up-very-late-for-a-multi-party-table-reservation-dinner/509050/196 "2009-09-09T12:01:55Z")
> [@DudleyGarrett](#): > > Unfortunately, where I live (NoVA/DC area), there are no such restaurants. Now, where I’m originally from (central Massachusetts), it’s more like you described. Ridiculous. Of course there are. And I say this as someone in the NoVa/DC area who eats out a LOT. (Off the top of my head, and defining “fine dining” as excellent, upscale food in a nice atmosphere, I can think of any number of great places.) ---
**Author:** ![St.Anger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@St.Anger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/St.Anger)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2009, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/violation-showing-up-very-late-for-a-multi-party-table-reservation-dinner/509050/197 "2009-09-09T13:08:10Z")
> [@ivn1188](#): > > You seem to be making the basic mistake that anyone actually gives a shit about your intent in starting the thread. > > I think you went to a touristy “chef name” place and got served standard Americana – hardly culinary “high brow” fare. You and a lot of other people seem to be making the basic mistake that I actually give a shit about what you think about the restaurant I went to. ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2009, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/violation-showing-up-very-late-for-a-multi-party-table-reservation-dinner/509050/198 "2009-09-09T13:57:04Z")
> [@Gadarene](#): > > Ridiculous. Of course there are. And I say this as someone in the NoVa/DC area who eats out a LOT. (Off the top of my head, and defining “fine dining” as excellent, upscale food in a nice atmosphere, I can think of any number of great places.) To follow up on this, here are a list of places **within the D.C. city limits** where you can get a fabulous meal for less than $155 for two people, even including a bottle of wine. At each of these places, your standard entree is $25 or (much) less, appetizers are $8 to $14, and dessert (should you lean that way) is $10. Personally, I often favor handcrafted cocktails (at around $10 per) to wine, but the total bill is reasonable regardless. The restaurants are grouped by general neighborhood. Again, these are _off the top of my head._ Adams Morgan Cashion’s Eat Place Bourbon Las Canteras Himalayan Heritage U Street/Logan Etete Cork Bar Pilar Cafe Saint-Ex Marvin Woodley Park, Cleveland Park, and further up Connecticut Dino Indique New Heights Buck’s Fishing and Camping Gallery Place/Metro Center Rasika Poste PS 7’s (mmmmmm cocktails) Cafe Atlantico Tosca Proof Jaleo SEI Downtown/Dupont Oval Room Spezie Vidalia Firefly Georgetown Hook Mendocino Capitol Hill Belga Cava Even pricier places like Palena, Central, or Obelisk (which has a $65 prix fixe menu including multiple appetizers and a dessert, and is one of the best meals in town) aren’t _too_ much over your $155 limit for two people, depending what wine you get (and how much of it). It’s only when you hit the _really_ upscale – Komi, Citronelle, Eve, CityZen, Adour – that the price tag is extremely hefty. It seems like you’re basing your estimate mostly on overpriced steakhouses – and I assume you know that some of the best steaks in the area are at Ray’s in Arlington and Silver Spring, for much less than you’d pay at Ruth’s Chris or Morton’s or whatever. Basically, I don’t think you know what you’re talking about when it comes to food in D.C. ---
**Author:** ![tacoloco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tacoloco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tacoloco)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2009, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/violation-showing-up-very-late-for-a-multi-party-table-reservation-dinner/509050/199 "2009-09-09T14:27:01Z")
> [@St.Anger](#): > > Get a life. Pithy. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2009, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/violation-showing-up-very-late-for-a-multi-party-table-reservation-dinner/509050/200 "2009-09-09T14:33:26Z")
> [@tacoloco](#): > > Pithy. Yeah, it was right up there with “Waaah” for sheer originality. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/violation-showing-up-very-late-for-a-multi-party-table-reservation-dinner/509050.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/violation-showing-up-very-late-for-a-multi-party-table-reservation-dinner/509050.md?page=11)