# Violation: Showing up VERY late for a multi-party, table reservation dinner **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 6, 2009, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/violation-showing-up-very-late-for-a-multi-party-table-reservation-dinner/509050 "2009-09-06T08:14:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![St.Anger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@St.Anger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/St.Anger)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2009, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/violation-showing-up-very-late-for-a-multi-party-table-reservation-dinner/509050/21 "2009-09-06T18:40:49Z")
> [@Lamar\_Mundane](#): > > Oh, nonsense. My daughter is on a soccer team that plays all over the state, every weekend through fall. These kids need their parents to drive them, and every week every single one of them shows up on time. Movie theaters are full of people, including groups, in time for the start of the film. Next weekend, stadiums across the country are going to be full with 70,000 people at kickoff. There’s another one that bites my ass, people that show up to movie theaters late. A lot of times, they are noisy too, which goes hand in hand with being stupid and ignorant enough to show up late to begin with. I have to plead guilty to showing up to sporting events late. I have season tickets to the local baseball team, and there have been nights when I’ve shown up in the 4th, 5th even 6th inning. That said, they are MY seats, I paid good damned money in the off-season for them, and I feel I can come and go as I please, and in my defense I ALWAYS wait until an at-bat is over to excuse myself so I can get to my seats so the other patrons game enjoyment is not interrupted. The game is going to start at 7:05 with or without my sorry ass, so I’m not annoying the 10,000 other fans. What gets my goat is when I see hordes of people that show up in the bottom of the second with bases loaded and a 3-2 count and make everyone stand right in the middle of an at bat, and half the time they spend standing in the aisle, looking slack jawed with that stupid dopey look on their face at their tickets, trying to figure out where their seats are. Part of that is to be blamed on the ushers. At Philadelphia Phillies games, you cant go back to your seat until the at bat is over, they wont let you. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2009, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/violation-showing-up-very-late-for-a-multi-party-table-reservation-dinner/509050/22 "2009-09-06T18:41:42Z")
> [@St.Anger](#): > > This place was in a casino and they did everything with the decor to make it look like it was in a tacky casino, and the hostess dressed like she was a hostess at Denny’s. :dubious: According to your OP: > [@St.Anger](#): > > PRELUDE: To celebrate her 31st birthday, Birthday Girl invites her friends to a white-tablecloth reservation-only restaurant (to give you an idea of how high brow this place is, its owned by a famous TV Chef), with 7pm reservation for Saturday night. We are among 10 people that RSVP. First it was a fancy schmancy place, now it’s a tacky Vegas casino? Which is it? ---
**Author:** ![St.Anger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@St.Anger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/St.Anger)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2009, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/violation-showing-up-very-late-for-a-multi-party-table-reservation-dinner/509050/23 "2009-09-06T18:44:33Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > Right–people show up for something they really want to do, like play soccer. This sounds like something that the birthday girl really wanted to do and other people were humoring her. It’s selfish and rude, to be sure, but it’s also fairly predictable. This is, in my experience, very common with these sorts of events–when you have a bunch of people that don’t know each other particularly well and are all connected to the person in the center. No one feels any huge obligation to be there/be prompt because 1) they will only disappoint one person (the organizer) if they don’t show 2) they figure other people will be there, so it’s not big deal if they aren’t/are late and 3) they aren’t that eager, anyway, because it means making small talk with strangers. Basically, no one feels like an essential element to the evening, so they are comfortable canceling. > > Now, the dynamic is totally different with a group of people that all know each other and are comfortable with each other. For one thing, if you cancel you have to explain yourself to everyone; if others are also canceling, you will hear about it and be more reluctant to cancel yourself. People also remember if you’ve canceled before, and comment. For another, you are probably looking forward to seeing more than just the main person. Finally, a group of mutual friends usually make arrangements to do things everyone is willing to tolerate. People have a defined place/role in the group, so they show up. Yep. I had a bad feeling in my stomach about this gathering as it approached, and my misgivings were correct. BTW, I have a question for everyone------were we obligated in any way to pay for Birthday Girl’s dinner, since she initiated the idea? ---
**Author:** ![St.Anger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@St.Anger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/St.Anger)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2009, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/violation-showing-up-very-late-for-a-multi-party-table-reservation-dinner/509050/24 "2009-09-06T18:46:45Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > :dubious: > > According to your OP: > > First it was a fancy schmancy place, now it’s a tacky Vegas casino? Which is it? Going in, based on the reputation of it’s restauranter, I was expecting it to be “fancy shcmanzy”, classy, and from the outside, thats what it looks like. Once I sat down and observed the decor, the carpeting, the hostess attire, I was disappointed to see that it seemed like the inside of the tacky casino it was in. ---
**Author:** ![wierdaaron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/eada6e/32.png) [@wierdaaron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wierdaaron)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2009, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/violation-showing-up-very-late-for-a-multi-party-table-reservation-dinner/509050/25 "2009-09-06T19:29:21Z")
No place owned by a TV chef is fancy. TV chefs aren’t on TV because they’re amazing chefs, they’re on TV because they can read lines with personality. TV chef restaurants try to seem like fancy, high-end establishments but they are managed by the caliber of executive who’d be managing a theme park restaurant. The reason the food wasn’t very good, cost too much, and the waitstaff probably seemed flustered and unaware of protocol, is because it was a Disney Land version of a fancy restaurant. Going to a restaurant for a party is a bad deal in general unless it’s either very well below every person’s price range (dive bar) or the thrower has arranged to pay for everything. When my vegan brother and his vegan wife came back into town for a baby shower, my overbearing mother decided the party must be at a local “all vegan” restaurant. Of course, of the 20 guests, only the two people were vegan, so 90% of the people were uncomfortable with the food. Most handled it well, in fact the mexican dishes were quite good, but then again since the restaurant was about 10 square feet, our table for 20 took up the whole dining area and was quite cramped. Fortunately, though, overbearing mother put the whole thing on her credit card in advance, so at least people didn’t have to worry about the prices. Which was good, because a lot of the relatives would have scoffed at the $10 dirtburgers and would have just shared a few appetizers instead. Since the obligation of paying is removed, nobody’s got to be neurotic or waiting for a chance to escape before the next course or round of drinks. Think of it like this, if you were having a birthday party at home, would you charge your guests to pay for their portion of the food? That’s socially forbidden. Inviting them to a fancy restaurant and having them pay is the same thing. The general idea of throwing a party is that you’re paying so everybody can have a good time. I’d wager an evening at home with a bag of pretzels, a few delivered pizzas or a party sub, and a game of Scattegories would be a better time for all than spending 3 of 4 hours waiting and everybody having to pay for their own Mickey Mouse fine dining. A real nice restaurant could do a fixed menu for an event like that. You, the host, pay X up front, everybody gets to choose between two or three entrees (which, between everybody, equals X), and then guests can pay for their own drinks. In fact, restaurants usually love doing that, because when guests aren’t paying for their own food they’re usually getting a lot more drinks than usual, and drinks make them more money than anything else. In short, don’t do what the birthday girl in OP’s story did. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2009, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/violation-showing-up-very-late-for-a-multi-party-table-reservation-dinner/509050/26 "2009-09-06T19:35:16Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > Basically, no one feels like an essential element to the evening, so they are comfortable canceling. But these people didn’t cancel. If someone agrees to be in a given place at a given time, they should be there at that time. If they don’t want to be there, then either they need to have the bollocks to say so, or, since they did agree to do it… do it. ETA: I think Birthday Girl was VERY rude to expect you to pay. Where I come from, “I invite” means “I pay for it.” OTOH, my mother charges us for going to have lunch at her house and my SiL has problems understanding why people refuse to go to her birthday when they celebrate it at a place that carries an entrance fee 😛 (they’re both from out of town) ---
**Author:** ![jacquilynne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/67e7ee/32.png) [@jacquilynne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jacquilynne)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2009, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/violation-showing-up-very-late-for-a-multi-party-table-reservation-dinner/509050/27 "2009-09-06T19:47:36Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > God you are an ass. At least you won’t have any problems with your friends at your birthday, because you probably don’t have any. Of course, following proper etiquette and actually paying for events that I host makes me an ass. FWIW, 12 quests at my last birthday party and 3 at the one before that. I must be getting more popular. Or, no, wait. I picked the size of the guest list for each event specifically to keep the parties within _my_ budget at each of the restaurants I chose to celebrate in. ---
**Author:** ![St.Anger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@St.Anger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/St.Anger)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2009, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/violation-showing-up-very-late-for-a-multi-party-table-reservation-dinner/509050/28 "2009-09-06T19:50:47Z")
I should mention that nowhere was it ever discussed or implied that we were obligated to pay for Birthday Girl’s meal. What’s the right call? ---
**Author:** ![Harmonious\_Discord](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/74df32/32.png) [@Harmonious\_Discord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harmonious_Discord)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2009, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/violation-showing-up-very-late-for-a-multi-party-table-reservation-dinner/509050/29 "2009-09-06T20:11:53Z")
No you’re not obligated to pay for her meal. She asked you all to come. Had you said you wanted to take her out for a birthday dinner you’d owe her one. ---
**Author:** ![legalsnugs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/45deac/32.png) [@legalsnugs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/legalsnugs)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2009, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/violation-showing-up-very-late-for-a-multi-party-table-reservation-dinner/509050/30 "2009-09-06T20:12:02Z")
> [@St.Anger](#): > > I should mention that nowhere was it ever discussed or implied that we were obligated to pay for Birthday Girl’s meal. What’s the right call? Since she did the inviting, she should have paid for yours. No, you had no obligation whatsoever to pay for hers as you did not offer to take her to dinner. You were the invited ‘guest who wasn’t.’ **DanBlather** is incorrect on this to the point of trollishness. \*\*jacquilynne \*\*and \*\*nava \*\*are absolutely right. And I am rather surprised people still pull/fall for this ploy of “celebrate my birthday by paying for my party” scam, especially at a high-priced place. Ugh. Did she expect gifts as well? If you brought one, I hope it was an etiquette book. ---
**Author:** ![Tortuga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c4cdca/32.png) [@Tortuga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tortuga)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2009, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/violation-showing-up-very-late-for-a-multi-party-table-reservation-dinner/509050/31 "2009-09-06T20:21:11Z")
We have a tradition in my family that the person who invited the people out picks up the tab. If I invite you out, I pick it up. This works out well for us. YMMV, of course. We don’t usually do really big multi-couple dinners though, as we prefer to have those in homes–once you get more than a couple couples together in our circle, it turns into a long lingering thing anyway and we don’t like to take up a table more than a couple hours. When it’s one of those things of “hey, we should all get together sometime” then it generally gets worked out via e-mail and everybody puts in their preferences and consensus is reached and then we all throw in and pay for ourselves. I really prefer separate checks though, as big a pain as that is for waitstaff, because some of my friends have differences in tipping styles and I don’t want to argue about it but I also don’t like seeing my tip not get passed along to the server. I don’t think I would choose a time and place for my own birthday dinner and expect someone else to pay for my meal as well. It’s a bit sad, actually. But I agree that the lateness was very rude. Perhaps your friends are playing passive-aggressive silly buggers. Was it a work day? 7 in a city where there’s lots of traffic doesn’t leave much time for a lot of people to get home, change, take a breather and get back out there, and sometimes what sounded like a good idea a couple weeks before is just exhausting at the end of a long day and long workweek. ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2009, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/violation-showing-up-very-late-for-a-multi-party-table-reservation-dinner/509050/32 "2009-09-06T20:32:52Z")
High end restaurants are not like chain restaurants. They don’t expect to turn that table for the rest of the evening, which is why they seated you right away and didn’t act put out when the others arrived late. When you charge $155 for a meal, not feeling rushed is part of the price. It’s not at all unusual for a meal to last three or four hours in these type places. (That does nothing to address the rudeness toward the birthday girl of folks arriving late or to the restaurant staff by not ordering entrees. I’m just addressing the complaint that the event lasted 4 hours.) I think perhaps 31 is a bit young to expect friends to have the type of disposable income where a couple could afford a $300 dinner. But the OPer is correct that the appropriate thing to do was to decline the invitation altogether. I’m still a little amazed by people who are so into themselves that they think the world should stop and celebrate their birthday after the age of, oh, say, 12. I’d never expect my friends to spend $150 on a dinner just because my mother gave birth to me 43 years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Harmonious\_Discord](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/74df32/32.png) [@Harmonious\_Discord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harmonious_Discord)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2009, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/violation-showing-up-very-late-for-a-multi-party-table-reservation-dinner/509050/33 "2009-09-06T20:36:41Z")
Birthday dinners suck at a restaurant, when it’s more than 6 people as nobody can speak to the others you want to at the dinner which is what you want to attend a party for anyway. Any large group for a party should be given at a venue where people can mingle and interact. Here is something I’ve seen happening more and more. A couple gets married and has the wedding across the country at the honeymoon spot and they expect their closest relatives to attend something that will cost thousands of dollars then yell at and bully the relative that can’t afford it. ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2009, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/violation-showing-up-very-late-for-a-multi-party-table-reservation-dinner/509050/34 "2009-09-06T20:45:56Z")
> [@legalsnugs](#): > > Did she expect gifts as well? If you brought one, I hope it was an etiquette book. Are there any adults who give gifts on birthdays? Except for spouses/SOs, maybe siblings if they’re close, maybe **very** close friends, I’m not aware of birthday-gifting among adults. (I’ll often make a cake for a friend’s birthday, but I’m not sure that’s an actual gift as opposed to a nice gesture.) ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2009, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/violation-showing-up-very-late-for-a-multi-party-table-reservation-dinner/509050/35 "2009-09-06T21:04:19Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > But these people didn’t cancel. If someone agrees to be in a given place at a given time, they should be there at that time. If they don’t want to be there, then either they need to have the bollocks to say so, or, since they did agree to do it… do it. Of course they should do what they agreed to do: my point is only that it’s very predictable that they didn’t–it’s a way to celebrate that always sounds good and always works out like this. ---
**Author:** ![legalsnugs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/45deac/32.png) [@legalsnugs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/legalsnugs)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2009, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/violation-showing-up-very-late-for-a-multi-party-table-reservation-dinner/509050/36 "2009-09-06T21:07:36Z")
> [@Rilchiam](#): > > Are there any adults who give gifts on birthdays? Except for spouses/SOs, maybe siblings if they’re close, maybe **very** close friends, I’m not aware of birthday-gifting among adults. (I’ll often make a cake for a friend’s birthday, but I’m not sure that’s an actual gift as opposed to a nice gesture.) A couple years ago I gave a surprise birthday dinner for my husband at a sushi place and invited 3 other couples. When I called to invite them (assuring them it was all my treat), every single one asked “should I bring a gift?” I was sort of surprised that anyone would ask, but told them no, we’d like their presence, not their presents (what kind of a clod would have said “yes”?). Each couple brought a bottle of wine for my husband anyway, because they are all very sweet people. And we had a really great evening. So, to answer your question, yes, adults still give gifts for birthdays. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2009, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/violation-showing-up-very-late-for-a-multi-party-table-reservation-dinner/509050/37 "2009-09-06T21:08:21Z")
> [@Harmonious\_Discord](#): > > Birthday dinners suck at a restaurant, when it’s more than 6 people as nobody can speak to the others you want to at the dinner which is what you want to attend a party for anyway. Any large group for a party should be given at a venue where people can mingle and interact. I agree. Only once have I ever had a satisfying birthday dinner out – mine or someone else’s – and that was at a restaurant that only serves one table at a time (you’ve got to reserve the whole place, even if you’re only 10 people). Every other time it’s been spending money on a subpar meal (the worst is when there’s a set menu) and watching the overworked waiter glare from the kitchen. And really, I can’t blame them. Between late arrivals and low tippers, large groups just seem like no fun. I say have an intimate dinner with your partner or 3-4 friends then go for drinks. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2009, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/violation-showing-up-very-late-for-a-multi-party-table-reservation-dinner/509050/38 "2009-09-06T21:15:09Z")
Where to start… No way I’m waiting for douchebag irresponsible and inconsiderate friends who can’t make it at a reasonable time. Half hour late? Cool. Over an hour? Fuck you clown. Next time I’ll be sure not to invite you. I’m ordering at the half-hour mark. Period. My friends know I’m rather strapped at the moment, so such an evening would be completely out of the question. But even socially challenged me is bright enough to say no when asked. Showing up having already eaten? Unless you had dinner with Obama and/or the Queen of England, thanks for dissing the BD girl, jackass. Finally, because one person wants dessert doesn’t mean I have to have it. I’m asking for my check, wishing the BD girl the best and making my exit. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2009, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/violation-showing-up-very-late-for-a-multi-party-table-reservation-dinner/509050/39 "2009-09-06T21:15:51Z")
> [@legalsnugs](#): > > Since she did the inviting, she should have paid for yours. No, you had no obligation whatsoever to pay for hers as you did not offer to take her to dinner. You were the invited ‘guest who wasn’t.’ > > **DanBlather** is incorrect on this to the point of trollishness. \*\*jacquilynne \*\*and \*\*nava \*\*are absolutely right. And I am rather surprised people still pull/fall for this ploy of “celebrate my birthday by paying for my party” scam, especially at a high-priced place. Ugh. Did she expect gifts as well? If you brought one, I hope it was an etiquette book. Between the rudeness of inviting people to join you for a birthday dinner (which is common among my friends) and showing up and HOUR and FORTY minutes late, I think the latter far outstrips the former. If they didn’t want to go they could have used a handy english word that begins with “n”. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2009, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/violation-showing-up-very-late-for-a-multi-party-table-reservation-dinner/509050/40 "2009-09-06T21:31:11Z")
> [@wierdaaron](#): > > The reason the food wasn’t very good, cost too much, and the waitstaff probably seemed flustered and unaware of protocol, is because it was a Disney Land version of a fancy restaurant. Hey, I object to that! Disney makes very good food. 😃 Seriosuly, I’ve been theses a few times, and eaten all over the place, and their restaurants are always excellent. The only one I’ve ever had an issue with was the inexpensive Mexican cafe at Epcot, and that was merely that the food was fairly bland. Disney even makes the best Tuna Salad sandwich I’ve ever had. At sit-down places, their service is excellent. At either walk-ups or sit-downs, the manager are the kind of people who can balance six different unstable teapots on thewir heads at once. The best part is that while Disney has a reputation for high prices, they often really do deliver a good value for that price. Ok, that rambling sidebar is done. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/violation-showing-up-very-late-for-a-multi-party-table-reservation-dinner/509050.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/violation-showing-up-very-late-for-a-multi-party-table-reservation-dinner/509050.md?page=3)