# Violation: Showing up VERY late for a multi-party, table reservation dinner **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 6, 2009, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/violation-showing-up-very-late-for-a-multi-party-table-reservation-dinner/509050 "2009-09-06T08:14:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![legalsnugs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/45deac/32.png) [@legalsnugs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/legalsnugs)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2009, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/violation-showing-up-very-late-for-a-multi-party-table-reservation-dinner/509050/101 "2009-09-07T16:43:44Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > …But I’m also willing to grant that there is cultural relativism at work - and just because someone and their group of friends always do this as separate checks or we split the bill, does not mean that they are complete and total bores or WRONG. Once a group of people establish that as their custom, then its OK…not technically right to those that care about what Emily Post wrote…but still OK. And fortunately (or perhaps unfortunately), there is no etiquette prison. I’m with you, but that’s not what the OP sounded like. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2009, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/violation-showing-up-very-late-for-a-multi-party-table-reservation-dinner/509050/102 "2009-09-07T16:44:17Z")
> [@DudleyGarrett](#): > > Oh, and $155 for two people isn’t “fine dining” by any stretch, **St. Anger**. It’s about average for a decent restaurant with a four or five course meal. Hey, I’m a food snob and I have had many “fine dining” experiences for less than that. Wine, multiple courses, and desert. I’ve also paid more than that for crappy meals. Steak houses are notoriously expensive, but there are great restaurants all over Portland, some acclaimed nationally, where you can get a great meal for 2 for $155 or less. ---
**Author:** ![DudleyGarrett](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d9b06d/32.png) [@DudleyGarrett](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DudleyGarrett)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2009, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/violation-showing-up-very-late-for-a-multi-party-table-reservation-dinner/509050/103 "2009-09-07T16:48:36Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > Hey, I’m a food snob and I have had many “fine dining” experiences for less than that. Wine, multiple courses, and desert. I’ve also paid more than that for crappy meals. Steak houses are notoriously expensive, but there are great restaurants all over Portland, some acclaimed nationally, where you can get a great meal for 2 for $155 or less. Unfortunately, where I live (NoVA/DC area), there are no such restaurants. Now, where I’m originally from (central Massachusetts), it’s more like you described. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2009, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/violation-showing-up-very-late-for-a-multi-party-table-reservation-dinner/509050/104 "2009-09-07T16:52:51Z")
> [@DudleyGarrett](#): > > Unfortunately, where I live (NoVA/DC area), there are no such restaurants. Now, where I’m originally from (central Massachusetts), it’s more like you described. Brings back memories of the Florence Diner. Not “fine dinining” but a damn fine diner. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![St.Anger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@St.Anger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/St.Anger)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2009, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/violation-showing-up-very-late-for-a-multi-party-table-reservation-dinner/509050/105 "2009-09-07T17:11:50Z")
> [@tacoloco](#): > > You must be fun at parties. Of course not. I’m the “pain in the ass”, right? As for all this, hey, the Poster tried to get smart with me, that’s fair game, but he started it, and I finished it. ---
**Author:** ![St.Anger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@St.Anger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/St.Anger)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2009, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/violation-showing-up-very-late-for-a-multi-party-table-reservation-dinner/509050/106 "2009-09-07T17:24:38Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Well…I might not have put it like that, but yes. It’s clear that they are neither used to eating in a high-end restaurant nor know what one is. I am sorry that I am not as rich and wealthy as everyone here, but to get into a debate as to what a “high end” restaurant is, or making fun of someone because they think $155 for two people is a lot of money to spend on a meal is missing the entire point of the post. To the social circle involved, that IS a lot of money. I would guess that to most of the posters here, that is a lot of money, as well. As a matter of fact, if I was a billionaire, to me, that would be a lot of money to spend on a meal. As the saying goes “$100 is still $100.” Now, I never claimed to be a culinary expert, so maybe I dont know what a “high end” restaurant really is, but I can tell you everyone that came to this outing is college educated and employed, so we might not be “rich”, but to degrade me or my friends as “white trash” who should eat at Arby’s is ignorant (ok, maybe AC/DC guy excluded). Second, setting that aside, the main point, and I think just about everyone agrees on this, is that it’s rude to show up that late for a multi-course dinner that takes reservations, whether it’s a “chain” (which I can assure this was NOT) or the most expensive restaurant in Manhattan. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2009, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/violation-showing-up-very-late-for-a-multi-party-table-reservation-dinner/509050/107 "2009-09-07T17:33:58Z")
> [@St.Anger](#): > > I am sorry that I am not as rich and wealthy as everyone here, but to get into a debate as to what a “high end” restaurant is, or making fun of someone because they think $155 for two people is a lot of money to spend on a meal is missing the entire point of the post. > > To the social circle involved, that IS a lot of money. I would guess that to most of the posters here, that is a lot of money, as well. As a matter of fact, if I was a billionaire, to me, that would be a lot of money to spend on a meal. As the saying goes “$100 is still $100.” > > Now, I never claimed to be a culinary expert, so maybe I dont know what a “high end” restaurant really is, but I can tell you everyone that came to this outing is college educated and employed, so we might not be “rich”, but to degrade me or my friends as “white trash” who should eat at Arby’s is ignorant (ok, maybe AC/DC guy excluded). > > Second, setting that aside, the main point, and I think just about everyone agrees on this, is that it’s rude to show up that late for a multi-course dinner that takes reservations, whether it’s a “chain” (which I can assure this was NOT) or the most expensive restaurant in Manhattan. That last point is the kicker - its one thing to come and go at a “drinks and appetizer” event - the cocktail party - or the unhosted cocktail party at a bar. You are a boor no matter how much the dinner cost or who is paying for it to show up late to a dinner. Doesn’t matter if its a bring your own meat backyard BBQ (we’ll eat around 4pm) or dinner at The French Laundry that your boss is hosting. But that this restaurant was a stretch for the people involved (and that they were paying for it) means they had more riding on it than someone who regularly goes out for $100 a plate dinners. Which is why the etiquette side is coming down harsher than they would if this were Outback. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2009, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/violation-showing-up-very-late-for-a-multi-party-table-reservation-dinner/509050/108 "2009-09-07T17:53:58Z")
> [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](#): > > Wow, how out of touch can you get? It’s almost humbling that people still think like that (and that there’s still such thing as an “etiquette expert”, in this day and age)! The social norm, for anybody under the age of 98, is that the guests pay their own way. I’m only 53, but in my lexicon, someone who pays his own way is not a “guest.” And an announcement that a No-host celebratory dining event will be held at a specific restaurant is not an “invitation.” I’m no etiquette expert, but I will cop to being a prescriptivist when it comes to the meanings of certain words. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2009, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/violation-showing-up-very-late-for-a-multi-party-table-reservation-dinner/509050/109 "2009-09-07T18:03:15Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > Honestly, do you think people on the prairie in 1840 brought hostess gifts? I’m not going for the reverse elistist snobbery thing, but the mainstreaming of “Emily Post” manners is something that occurred in the 1900s. And manners are one of those things where cultural relativism exists - even within the U.S. I’m in Minnesota - plenty of well mannered people would argue that you don’t take anything offered here the first time its offered - but that’s a regional thing. Same with shoes off in the house - I was raised that its rude to expect your guests to remove articles of clothing…in Asia it would be rude to keep your shoes on. In the U.S. it seems to be almost household to household… I’d be willing to _bet_ you that prairie pioneer people brought hostess gifts - a pie, a cake, maybe some lace or something, because I’m sure it was a hell of a lot harder to host a party back then. ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2009, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/violation-showing-up-very-late-for-a-multi-party-table-reservation-dinner/509050/110 "2009-09-07T19:01:49Z")
For what it’s worth, the [Etiquette Hell](http://www.etiquettehell.com/content/eh_misc/fauxpasoftheyear/fauxpas2006arc.shtml) moderator once ripped a submitter a new one for hosting her own b-day party. However, it seemed to me that a great deal of her ire stemmed from her own assumption that the inviter expected gifts. As I said earlier, not since I left school have I **ever** been shaken down for a birthday gift simply because I was invited to someone’s party. Plus which, the EHellDame may not have grokked that the guests were members of a church group. Forty guests is not excessive in that case, IMO, because you cannot pick and choose among church group members. You invite the entire group or forget it. Also, she didn’t say, but it’s just barely possible that she did plan to pay the entire tab. Also also, even if she didn’t, no **one** guest would be paying her $800 estimate. Christ, this is one touchy subject. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2009, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/violation-showing-up-very-late-for-a-multi-party-table-reservation-dinner/509050/111 "2009-09-07T19:28:36Z")
> [@Rilchiam](#): > > Christ, this is one touchy subject. Speaking of which, who picked up the tab for the last supper? ---
**Author:** ![wierdaaron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/eada6e/32.png) [@wierdaaron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wierdaaron)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2009, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/violation-showing-up-very-late-for-a-multi-party-table-reservation-dinner/509050/112 "2009-09-07T19:48:27Z")
The taxpayers. ---
**Author:** ![St.Anger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@St.Anger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/St.Anger)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2009, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/violation-showing-up-very-late-for-a-multi-party-table-reservation-dinner/509050/113 "2009-09-07T20:15:33Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > Speaking of which, who picked up the tab for the last supper? Well, etiquette would state that since Jesus initiated the idea, he should have picked up the tab. That said, one could theorize that the reason Judas snuck out after the appetizers and sold Jesus down the river for 7 pieces of silver was because he realized he forgot his wallet, and needed enough cash to cover his share of the bill. ---
**Author:** ![St.Anger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@St.Anger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/St.Anger)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2009, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/violation-showing-up-very-late-for-a-multi-party-table-reservation-dinner/509050/114 "2009-09-07T20:18:12Z")
Oh, I forgot to add that I once read somewhere that Mark and Luke showed up an hour and forty minutes late, but Jesus forgave them. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2009, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/violation-showing-up-very-late-for-a-multi-party-table-reservation-dinner/509050/115 "2009-09-07T20:39:39Z")
> [@St.Anger](#): > > I am sorry that I am not as rich and wealthy as everyone here, but to get into a debate as to what a “high end” restaurant is, or making fun of someone because they think $155 for two people is a lot of money to spend on a meal is missing the entire point of the post. > > To the social circle involved, that IS a lot of money. I would guess that to most of the posters here, that is a lot of money, as well. As a matter of fact, if I was a billionaire, to me, that would be a lot of money to spend on a meal. As the saying goes “$100 is still $100.” > > Now, I never claimed to be a culinary expert, so maybe I dont know what a “high end” restaurant really is, but I can tell you everyone that came to this outing is college educated and employed, so we might not be “rich”, but to degrade me or my friends as “white trash” who should eat at Arby’s is ignorant (ok, maybe AC/DC guy excluded). > > Second, setting that aside, the main point, and I think just about everyone agrees on this, is that it’s rude to show up that late for a multi-course dinner that takes reservations, whether it’s a “chain” (which I can assure this was NOT) or the most expensive restaurant in Manhattan. It’s only relevant in that almost no one in your story appeared to be acting as if they have ever eaten in a nice restaurant. People are showing up late, dressed inappropriately, eating dinner beforehand (presumably so as not to have to buy a lot of expensive food), complaining about the service, ordering dessert when no one else is. In many ways it’s the hostesses fault for organizing a dinner that is beyond the price and sophistication levels of most of her friends. And AC/DC guy and his friends in particular look like a bunch of clueless buffoons. I can almost picture them guffaw as they use their spoons to launch food into each other’s mouths. WRT birthday dinners, I feel a little weird sending invites to my own birthday dinner in glorious celebration of me. It’s probably better to have your best friend or SO host it. But I have never heard of any birthday dinner where someone pays for all the guests. Every single dinner I have ever been to, unless it is some formal reception type thing, each guest pays for their own meal and 1/nth of the special person’s. Class and etiquette are not about appearing better than other people. They are appropriate behaviors designed to make other people feel comfortible and not make you look like a clueless jackass. What impression does Mr AC/DC give? That he doesn’t know how to dress appropriately for dinner, doesn’t care about the hostess, is cheap and a bit of a jerk. All that could have been avoided by simply showing up on time with a real shirt. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2009, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/violation-showing-up-very-late-for-a-multi-party-table-reservation-dinner/509050/116 "2009-09-07T21:44:18Z")
–or having the party at Arby’s. ---
**Author:** ![bathsheba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@bathsheba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bathsheba)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2009, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/violation-showing-up-very-late-for-a-multi-party-table-reservation-dinner/509050/117 "2009-09-07T22:15:37Z")
For $155 I hope you got to 100% CHOOSE your refill!!1! ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2009, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/violation-showing-up-very-late-for-a-multi-party-table-reservation-dinner/509050/118 "2009-09-07T23:02:02Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > –or having the party at Arby’s. Arby’s is a fast food restaurant. A chain restaurant like TGI Friday or Chillies would be more appropriate. ---
**Author:** ![Harmonious\_Discord](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/74df32/32.png) [@Harmonious\_Discord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harmonious_Discord)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2009, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/violation-showing-up-very-late-for-a-multi-party-table-reservation-dinner/509050/119 "2009-09-07T23:24:50Z")
> [@St.Anger](#): > > Oh, I forgot to add that I once read somewhere that Mark and Luke showed up an hour and forty minutes late, but Jesus forgave them. They rented the room, so it didn’t matter. It wasn’t a public restaurant and the others didn’t wait to eat and drink. ---
**Author:** ![Harmonious\_Discord](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/74df32/32.png) [@Harmonious\_Discord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harmonious_Discord)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2009, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/violation-showing-up-very-late-for-a-multi-party-table-reservation-dinner/509050/120 "2009-09-08T01:05:17Z")
Oh yeah. Look at what they almost missed out on. The first communion ever. That would have been a real bummer. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/violation-showing-up-very-late-for-a-multi-party-table-reservation-dinner/509050.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/violation-showing-up-very-late-for-a-multi-party-table-reservation-dinner/509050.md?page=7)