# Violent crime reduction from legalizing marijuana **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 21, 2016, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/violent-crime-reduction-from-legalizing-marijuana/769201 "2016-10-21T00:01:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![boffking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/858c86/32.png) [@boffking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boffking)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2016, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/violent-crime-reduction-from-legalizing-marijuana/769201/1 "2016-10-21T00:01:29Z")
Are there any statistics or studies on this from the states that have legalized marijuana? I have often heard this as an argument in favor of legalization, that it reduces violent crime by bringing marijuana out of the black market. Are there any numbers on this? I am most interested in the effect on murder rates. ---
**Author:** ![Goalie8401](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f05b48/32.png) [@Goalie8401](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Goalie8401)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2016, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/violent-crime-reduction-from-legalizing-marijuana/769201/2 "2016-10-21T02:05:46Z")
Here’s an article in regards to the legalization in Colorado and violent crime. [http://www.rogersandmoss.com/blog/14-criminal-law-articles/56-two-years-later-has-the-legalization-of-marijuana-affected-crime-in-colorado](http://www.rogersandmoss.com/blog/14-criminal-law-articles/56-two-years-later-has-the-legalization-of-marijuana-affected-crime-in-colorado) Here is a one year status report for Washington and Colorado: [Marijuana Legalization in Washington State: One-Year Status Report](http://www.drugpolicy.org/news/2015/07/marijuana-legalization-washington-state-one-year-status-report) In general, the answer is yes. There is a reduction in violent crime correlated to the legalization of marijuana. ---
**Author:** ![ArtBeforeScience](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/73ab20/32.png) [@ArtBeforeScience](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ArtBeforeScience)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2018, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/violent-crime-reduction-from-legalizing-marijuana/769201/3 "2018-03-04T16:18:14Z")
Here’s an article from the Denver Post claiming just the opposite. > **[Crime rate in Colorado increases much faster than rest of the country](https://www.denverpost.com/2017/07/11/colorado-sees-big-increase-crime-10-percent-higher-murder-rate/)** > > Colorado’s overall crime rate increased 5.5 percent in Colorado from 2015 to 2016 fueled by a rise in violent crime including rape, murder and robbery. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2018, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/violent-crime-reduction-from-legalizing-marijuana/769201/4 "2018-03-04T16:29:11Z")
> [@ArtBeforeScience](#): > > Here’s an article from the Denver Post claiming just the opposite. > > [Crime rate in Colorado increases much faster than rest of the country – The Denver Post](https://www.denverpost.com/2017/07/11/colorado-sees-big-increase-crime-10-percent-higher-murder-rate/) Paywalled. If it’s the same story, [Snopes](https://www.snopes.com/marijuana-responsible-colorado-crime-increase/) says unproven. > [@](#): > > Morrissey opens his argument by citing statistics taken from a September 2016 report by the Rocky Mountain High Intensity Drug Traffic Area (HIDTA), part of a federal program coordinating anti-drug efforts among federal, state, and local law enforcement agencies. > > Morrissey’s letter stated that — according to the HIDTA report — after recreational marijuana use was legalized in Colorado in 2013, “traffic related marijuana deaths” went up by 48 percent while “marijuana related emergency room visits” increased by 49 percent. > > But the report lists qualifiers that are not mentioned in the letter: > > Morrissey’s letter also cited statistics taken from the Colorado Bureau of Investigations’ statewide crime report for 2015. But while it correctly notes that homicides went up by 14.7 percent in the state in 2015 compared to 2014, the CBI’s findings make no mention of the drug. ---
**Author:** ![ArtBeforeScience](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/73ab20/32.png) [@ArtBeforeScience](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ArtBeforeScience)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2018, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/violent-crime-reduction-from-legalizing-marijuana/769201/5 "2018-03-04T17:31:08Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Paywalled. > If it’s the same story, [Snopes](https://www.snopes.com/marijuana-responsible-colorado-crime-increase/) says unproven. Sorry about the paywall. I didn’t have to pay to view it. Anyhow you are right, the association is tenuous. However, one point. Oakland has legalized cannabis and I live in a warehouse that has grow-ops next door. The grow places have been robbed multiple times, and we residents have encountered an uptick of transients inside our gated parking lot. We don’t know if they’re street people or temporary seasonal employees sleeping in their cars. Either way they got no manners and while they aren’t committing any crimes, any sort of aggressive person who accosts me on the premises of the place where I legally reside, after dark especially, is a quality of life issue that IMO invites criminal behavior to follow. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2018, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/violent-crime-reduction-from-legalizing-marijuana/769201/6 "2018-03-04T17:37:38Z")
> [@ArtBeforeScience](#): > > Sorry about the paywall. I didn’t have to pay to view it. Anyhow you are right, the association is tenuous. > > However, one point. Oakland has legalized cannabis and **I live in a warehouse that has grow-ops next door.** The grow places have been robbed multiple times, and we residents have encountered an uptick of transients inside our gated parking lot. We don’t know if they’re street people or temporary seasonal employees sleeping in their cars. Either way they got no manners and while they aren’t committing any crimes, any sort of aggressive person who accosts me on the premises of the place where I legally reside, after dark especially, is a quality of life issue that IMO invites criminal behavior to follow. [From CalNORML](http://www.canorml.org/california_cannabis_laws) > [@](#): > > The Bureau of Cannabis Control in the Dept. of Consumer Affairs is in charge of licensing and regulating retail sales, distribution, and testing; the Dept. of Food and Agriculture is in charge of cultivation; and the Dept. of Public Health is in charge of manufacturing. Prior approval by local city or county governments is required for all state-licensed facilities. Further info on state regulations may be found at the [California Cannabis Portal](https://cannabis.ca.gov/). Are the grow-ops legal? if they’re not, report 'em. You can’t blame legalized marijuana for continued illegal operations and the attendant crime. ---
**Author:** ![ArtBeforeScience](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/73ab20/32.png) [@ArtBeforeScience](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ArtBeforeScience)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2018, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/violent-crime-reduction-from-legalizing-marijuana/769201/7 "2018-03-04T19:32:01Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > You can’t blame legalized marijuana for continued illegal operations and the attendant crime. Actually, cannabis is still quasi-legal status as a cash crop. A lot of monetary transactions, such as purchases inside a dispensary, cannot be made via credit card because it crosses state lines. It is harder for cannabis businesses to find banks. IMO some of the would-be cannabis investors now flooding into Oakland have not considered that legalization means a 30% sales tax, plus price drops on bulk product. None of that is directly related to the point of this thread, the connection between cannabis legalization and changes in crime levels. I would like to think that there are well-run, ethical cannabis businesses out there and I hope they are the ones that succeed. ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2018, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/violent-crime-reduction-from-legalizing-marijuana/769201/8 "2018-03-04T23:58:07Z")
> [@ArtBeforeScience](#): > > Sorry about the paywall. I didn’t have to pay to view it. Anyhow you are right, the association is tenuous. > > However, one point. Oakland has legalized cannabis and I live in a warehouse that has grow-ops next door. The grow places have been robbed multiple times, and we residents have encountered an uptick of transients inside our gated parking lot. We don’t know if they’re street people or temporary seasonal employees sleeping in their cars. Either way they got no manners and while they aren’t committing any crimes, any sort of aggressive person who accosts me on the premises of the place where I legally reside, after dark especially, is a quality of life issue that IMO invites criminal behavior to follow. Do you have evidenced of an increase in the incidence of such people in the general population? Or could it be merely a redistribution of a certain demographic according the geographical presence of economic activity of interest to them? ---
**Author:** ![Arkcon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Arkcon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arkcon)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2018, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/violent-crime-reduction-from-legalizing-marijuana/769201/9 "2018-03-05T17:30:43Z")
Cecil’s column, and the many threads its spawned make me wish I remembered a particular news story I read a few years ago, basically it was considering the benefits of pot legalization in Seattle, meant to generate _millions_ in tax revenue for municipalities that have budgets in the **billions**. I could probably Google news for the reference, but my problem understanding the dilemma remains – if legalization adds 1/1000th of the revenue, how does it actually help a problem? Of course, if that shortfall is true, then how does any revenue meet any financial need? Understanding this dilemma has 3 problems for me: 1). I’m not a pot smoker, and I don’t have a vested interest in legalizing pot. And as a distinct “square” – the bubbly praise for pot, its production, its legalization and how awesome it is to that particular poster’s life leaves me cold and disinterested. You’re not selling me on the concept with your anecdotes, is what I’m saying. 2). It used to be that the meme was that hemp was supremely valuable as a fiber crop, until “da mahn” made it uncool. Cecil had a column that specifically addressed this, hemp is dubious at best as a fiber source, and certainly there are other less exploited plant sources for fiber – you just can’t get stoned off them. People have mostly abandoned this tack. But they used to defend it as vigorously as the new “legal pot as revenue” meme. Does that make the “legal pot as revenue” meme just as dubious? 3). And again, I’d like to see the cost vs benefit in real dollars … yes, now defending grow areas and dealing with grow area transients are now new costs you have to add to the cost benefit analysis. ---
**Author:** ![Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/do_not_taunt/32/2968_2.png) [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Do_Not_Taunt)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2018, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/violent-crime-reduction-from-legalizing-marijuana/769201/10 "2018-03-05T17:47:28Z")
> [@Arkcon](#): > > Cecil’s column, and the many threads its spawned make me wish I remembered a particular news story I read a few years ago, basically it was considering the benefits of pot legalization in Seattle, meant to generate _millions_ in tax revenue for municipalities that have budgets in the **billions**. > > I could probably Google news for the reference, but my problem understanding the dilemma remains – if legalization adds 1/1000th of the revenue, how does it actually help a problem? Of course, if that shortfall is true, then how does any revenue meet any financial need? Washington State expects to collect $730MM in taxes related to legal marijuana over the next biennium. Our budget over that period is $43.7B. So marijuana is funding 1.6% of that, which may not sound like much, but is a lot more than 1/1000. I couldn’t find a similar projection for alcohol taxes, but for FY2017, alcohol taxes brought in 13% more revenue than marijuana taxes ($355MM vs $314MM), so around the same rough impact on the budget. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2018, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/violent-crime-reduction-from-legalizing-marijuana/769201/11 "2018-03-05T21:32:10Z")
Until they can bank their reciepts, I dont think we will see a big reduction in crime. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2018, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/violent-crime-reduction-from-legalizing-marijuana/769201/12 "2018-03-06T04:13:47Z")
> [@ArtBeforeScience](#): > > I would like to think that there are well-run, ethical cannabis businesses out there and I hope they are the ones that succeed. Welcome to Canada. 🙂 Medical cannabis is fully legal here, if you have the required permits, needed both to produce and to consume it (getting these permits is apparently a daunting process). There have been a number of reports on the CBC about the ‘cannabis boom’: corporations jockeying to get into position as national recreational legalization looms in summer 2018. Here’s an example: [Meet Canada’s Marijuana Moguls](https://newsinteractives.cbc.ca/longform/marijuana-moguls?cnis=a3b2970d-bf8c-4084-99b0-691b7785ad4d*C*1428*0*0*A) So hopefully we’ll see some revenue and some data about crime rates in a couple of years. ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2018, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/violent-crime-reduction-from-legalizing-marijuana/769201/13 "2018-03-06T04:48:23Z")
I think full legalization could result in more violent fights over the last oreo or slice of pizza. That’s what I recall from the mid 70s. ---
**Author:** ![ArtBeforeScience](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/73ab20/32.png) [@ArtBeforeScience](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ArtBeforeScience)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2018, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/violent-crime-reduction-from-legalizing-marijuana/769201/14 "2018-03-06T15:40:27Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > Do you have evidenced of an increase in the incidence of such people in the general population? Or could it be merely a redistribution of a certain demographic according the geographical presence of economic activity of interest to them? Assuming there are the same number of people as before, and people don’t change their proclivities overnight, redistribution seems more likely.