# Vioxx off the market! Nooooooooo! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 30, 2004, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vioxx-off-the-market-nooooooooo/266845 "2004-09-30T14:10:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2004, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vioxx-off-the-market-nooooooooo/266845/21 "2004-09-30T21:38:29Z")
Don’t know. Anyway, I wish you well. Perhaps Canada is still selling the drug. ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2004, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vioxx-off-the-market-nooooooooo/266845/22 "2004-09-30T21:43:24Z")
I’m taking a shot at an immediate refill. I’ll bet you the candy bar I just ate increases by heart attack risk more. Damn. ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2004, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vioxx-off-the-market-nooooooooo/266845/23 "2004-09-30T21:43:40Z")
Maybe so, and thanks for the good wishes, but as I mentioned, fortunately I haven’t needed it much lately anyway, and there are some newer alternatives I haven’t tried yet. Might as well take advantage of my U.S.-based prescription coverage. ---
**Author:** ![psychobunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/54ee81/32.png) [@psychobunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychobunny)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2004, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vioxx-off-the-market-nooooooooo/266845/24 "2004-09-30T22:16:49Z")
This sucks because not only did Vioxx have the lowest risk of gastrointestinal complications, but all of the other Cox-2 inhibitors cross-react with sulfonamides, which means that if you are allergic to sulfa, you may be allergic to them too. I don’t have a good option to give many of my patients with stomach problems and sulfa allergies. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2004, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vioxx-off-the-market-nooooooooo/266845/25 "2004-09-30T22:30:08Z")
> [@psychobunny](#): > > This sucks because not only did Vioxx have the lowest risk of gastrointestinal complications, but all of the other Cox-2 inhibitors cross-react with sulfonamides, which means that if you are allergic to sulfa, you may be allergic to them too. I don’t have a good option to give many of my patients with stomach problems and sulfa allergies. ☹ I don’t have stomach problems, but the sulfa reaction was precisely my sister’s issue (and would probably be mine, which is probably why I was reluctant to try Celebrex, now that I think of it - I once had a terrifying sulfa reaction which nearly put me in the E.R.). ---
**Author:** ![Bangiadore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b5a626/32.png) [@Bangiadore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bangiadore)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2004, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vioxx-off-the-market-nooooooooo/266845/26 "2004-09-30T22:40:27Z")
**Eva Luna** , I’ll second **porcupine** ’s suggestion of Bextra. It worked for me when Vioxx and Celebrex didn’t, and I think it has a low incidence of gastric complications (IIRC). At least I’ve never had any problems tolerating it. Can’t speak to the sulfa thing though, as I know nothing about it. ---
**Author:** ![Early\_Out](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Early\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Early_Out)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2004, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vioxx-off-the-market-nooooooooo/266845/27 "2004-09-30T23:50:35Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Now, imagine that a big chunk of my income comes from fining people like you. Cite? You may be right, but I’d like to see some data to back it up. ---
**Author:** ![Burrido](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3be4f8/32.png) [@Burrido](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Burrido)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2004, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vioxx-off-the-market-nooooooooo/266845/28 "2004-10-01T01:37:51Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > Hmm. Vioxx never worked very well for me. Didn’t do anything in my case. Literally. I could of just taken flintstone vitamins and it would of done more. Nambutone though, that’s all good stuff. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2004, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vioxx-off-the-market-nooooooooo/266845/29 "2004-10-01T02:35:06Z")
Hey should I be shorting Mercx? ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2004, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vioxx-off-the-market-nooooooooo/266845/30 "2004-10-01T02:38:15Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > When the FDA gets off their ass, and the class-action trial lawyers stop smelling blood. There’s already a class action suit in the works. Why don’t they go after the FDA for approving it? Actually fuck that, I’m sure they’re included in the shotgun spray. ---
**Author:** ![Early\_Out](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Early\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Early_Out)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2004, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vioxx-off-the-market-nooooooooo/266845/31 "2004-10-01T03:20:43Z")
> [@World Eater](#): > > Hey should I be shorting Mercx? Waaay too late! Merck lost over $26 billion in market value today. ---
**Author:** ![Early\_Out](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Early\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Early_Out)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2004, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vioxx-off-the-market-nooooooooo/266845/32 "2004-10-01T03:21:45Z")
> [@World Eater](#): > > Why don’t they go after the FDA for approving it? Sovereign immunity. ---
**Author:** ![threemae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f9b8f/32.png) [@threemae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/threemae)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2004, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vioxx-off-the-market-nooooooooo/266845/33 "2004-10-01T04:16:43Z")
> [@World Eater](#): > > There’s already a class action suit in the works. > > Why don’t they go after the FDA for approving it? Actually fuck that, I’m sure they’re included in the shotgun spray. Brilliant, just brilliant. A company spends the extra money to conduct a randomized, double-blind placebo experiment to make sure that their drug is safe, pull a drug at the first hint of not being safe, and piss off a lot of people that clearly would side with the pain-relief side of the equation after carefully considering the risk, and they STILL get a class action lawsuit. Somebody find me a lawyer that wants to defend this and point out again the fact that we don’t need any type of tort reform. ---
**Author:** ![Early\_Out](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Early\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Early_Out)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2004, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vioxx-off-the-market-nooooooooo/266845/34 "2004-10-01T04:57:11Z")
> [@threemae](#): > > … pull a drug at the first hint of not being safe… There were studies as far back as 2000 that indicated that Vioxx presented a higher risk of heart attacks - in one such study, the risk was found to be _four times_ higher than with a placebo. The miracle is that it wasn’t pulled off the market much sooner. Merck managed to rack up four years of whopping profits by ignoring those studies. For this, they deserve a medal? ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2004, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vioxx-off-the-market-nooooooooo/266845/35 "2004-10-01T05:01:29Z")
> [@Burrido](#): > > Didn’t do anything in my case. Literally. I could of just taken flintstone vitamins and it would of done more. Nambutone though, that’s all good stuff. Same here. But what’s nambutone? ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2004, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vioxx-off-the-market-nooooooooo/266845/36 "2004-10-01T05:06:45Z")
> [@Early Out](#): > > There were studies as far back as 2000 that indicated that Vioxx presented a higher risk of heart attacks - in one such study, the risk was found to be _four times_ higher than with a placebo. Four times higher than what, and for whom? I’m honestly curious. I find it difficult to believe that someone with no other major risk factors for heart disease would have a significant risk of heart problems taking Vioxx intermittently on an as-needed basis. Hell, let my doctor make an individualized risk/benefit analysis, one that is based on actual specific knowledge of my health and risk tolerance. What kind of quality of life would I have had with decades of constant pain? I’m much better now than I was 2-3 years ago, but I’m sure there are people out there with worse pain and fewer alternatives for dealing with it, i.e. contraindications to the other drugs on the market. ---
**Author:** ![TeaElle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8491ac/32.png) [@TeaElle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TeaElle)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2004, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vioxx-off-the-market-nooooooooo/266845/37 "2004-10-01T06:39:53Z")
> [@Eva Luna](#): > > Four times higher than what, and for whom? I’m honestly curious. I find it difficult to believe that someone with no other major risk factors for heart disease would have a significant risk of heart problems taking Vioxx intermittently on an as-needed basis. Hell, let my doctor make an individualized risk/benefit analysis, one that is based on actual specific knowledge of my health and risk tolerance. Well, here’s how it breaks down, from Merck’s own study. They had two groups, one taking Vioxx, one taking a placebo. In the first 18 months, the rate of heart attack was identical: .35% of the patients taking Vioxx and .35% of the patients taking a placebo had heart attacks. After 18 months, however, the numbers jumped, but the Vioxx group’s numbers jumped significantly: .75% of the placebo receivers had heart attacks while 1.5% of the members of the Vioxx group did. That sharp spike in heart attacks in those taking Vioxx over an extended period of time – as one woud if the drug was efficacious for chronic pain management – was what threw up red flags. 1.5% of users doesn’t seem like much, but when you’re talking about a drug that could ostensibly be used by millions, many of whom are elderly, it’s a substantial concern. That the heart attacks were coming as part and parcel of cardiovascular damage that seemed to rooted almost entirely in the use of the drug indicates that this isn’t something that should or could stay on the market. Like Phen/Fen, the risks are simply too high. ---
**Author:** ![thursday\_next](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8797f3/32.png) [@thursday\_next](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thursday_next)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2004, 9:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vioxx-off-the-market-nooooooooo/266845/38 "2004-10-01T09:52:59Z")
In the study conducted by Merck, they didn’t use amazingly healthy humans with minor ouchies, they conducting a study on patients who had previously developed polyps in the colon and the rectum, which could turn cancerous. Its not like they went up to Mr. Healthy, got 10 of his healthiest friends and ran the study. I can’t speak for every pain management doctor, but after discussions with mine and my GP, we decided that I would take it PRN (except that certain time of then month). Both of the doctors preferred their patients take it as needed, as opposed to every day (this was about a year or so ago). Every medication is going to have a side effect. Short of sudden death in 90% of patients who take it once, I’d like to be able to walk comfortably, or even reasonably comfortably thanks. On a side note, the other posters who Vioxx didn’t work for, is it one of those things like the allergy meds such as Allegra, Zyrtec, ect; where different ones work for different people? Personally, Zyrtec is my second best friend but my mom lives on something else. We go by the its just different, not wrong philosophy (like who’s better: Quentin Tarantino or Kevin Smith). Eva and everyone else who finds relief with Vioxx, best of luck finding something new. (Super congrats Eva for not having to take it for so long!) 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Angua](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8baadc/32.png) [@Angua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Angua)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2004, 10:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vioxx-off-the-market-nooooooooo/266845/39 "2004-10-01T10:10:53Z")
:eek: If the manufacturer’s withdrawn it, does that mean we can no longer get it in the UK either?? Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!! ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2004, 10:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vioxx-off-the-market-nooooooooo/266845/40 "2004-10-01T10:13:28Z")
> [@Early Out](#): > > Cite? You may be right, but I’d like to see some data to back it up. It is astounding that anyone would ask for a cite that the FDA makes a lot of money on fines. Although it is the height of laziness to ask someone else to Google the obvious for you, here you go: “In FY 2003, our efforts led to 341 arrests, 199 convictions, fines and restitutions of more than $800 million submitted to the U.S. Treasury” — Testimony before Congress, March 11, 2004, Lester M. Crawford, Acting Commissioner of the Food and Drug Administration. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vioxx-off-the-market-nooooooooo/266845.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vioxx-off-the-market-nooooooooo/266845.md?page=3)