# Virgin Mary Apparitions **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 24, 2008, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virgin-mary-apparitions/474309 "2008-11-24T19:47:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![not\_alice](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_alice/32/7283_2.png) [@not\_alice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_alice)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2010, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virgin-mary-apparitions/474309/141 "2010-12-19T16:45:08Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > One can look at the belief so many had that died at Jamestown, they followed a man who they thought would lead them to a better life, and ended up taking their own, and their loved one’s (in some cases). There was also the people who were waiting to be taken up in a space ship(a few years ago) all perished! A non religious belief! What distinguishes the latter from a set if religious beliefs in your eyes? I wouldn’t call the former a “belief”, it is people deciding to take an educated risk based on incomplete information they had available. That is not belief , that is volition, almost the opposite of belief and faith. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2010, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virgin-mary-apparitions/474309/142 "2010-12-19T19:24:33Z")
The Jonestown cultists thought they were crossing over to Heaven when they killed themselves and their children. That’s a religious belief. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2010, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virgin-mary-apparitions/474309/143 "2010-12-20T12:13:14Z")
> [@not\_alice](#): > > What distinguishes the latter from a set if religious beliefs in your eyes? > > I wouldn’t call the former a “belief”, it is people deciding to take an educated risk based on incomplete information they had available. That is not belief , that is volition, almost the opposite of belief and faith. I would call it a belief, if they believe something, to me that is a belief wiether it is religious or not! They base their belief on what they were taught, read, or even thought themselves. Belief in a lover who turned out to be just using someone is a belief, and many are hurt by it. they base their belife on wht the lover tells them, and what they hope is true! ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2010, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virgin-mary-apparitions/474309/144 "2010-12-20T15:37:22Z")
If you come to Clearwater, Florida, you can see the [url=]Virgin in the Glass, a set of water-stains in a couple of the windows of an otherwise nondescript office building on U.S. 19 that have been an object of veneration since the day they first were noticed. Don’t ask me why. The stains form an outline just barely recognizable as vaguely humanoid; but it is not identifiable as female, let alone the BVM. ---
**Author:** ![not\_alice](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_alice/32/7283_2.png) [@not\_alice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_alice)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2010, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virgin-mary-apparitions/474309/145 "2010-12-20T17:31:08Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > I would call it a belief, if they believe something, to me that is a belief wiether it is religious or not! > They base their belief on what they were taught, read, or even thought themselves. Belief in a lover who turned out to be just using someone is a belief, and many are hurt by it. they base their belife on wht the lover tells them, and what they hope is true! Doesn’t that describe _all_ human behavior then? I think in this thread, we are discussing behavior due to “faith”, not behavior due to being human and having to make decisions based on incomplete information and emotions. Do you think there is a difference between the two? ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2010, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virgin-mary-apparitions/474309/146 "2010-12-21T21:47:19Z")
> [@not\_alice](#): > > Doesn’t that describe _all_ human behavior then? > > I think in this thread, we are discussing behavior due to “faith”, not behavior due to being human and having to make decisions based on incomplete information and emotions. > > Do you think there is a difference between the two? To me Faith and Belief are the same thing, wither it is a religious belief or a belief that the Moon is made of green cheese. Proof can only distinguish between the 2. All human behavior is not based on the same thing. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virgin-mary-apparitions/474309.md?page=7)