# Virginia counties. **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 6, 2004, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virginia-counties/273358 "2004-11-06T16:22:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2004, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virginia-counties/273358/1 "2004-11-06T16:22:41Z")
Looking at this vote I notice a buch of “dots” that appear in counties. Are these seperate counties, or cities that are somehow seperate from the county? How does this work and why aren’t all counties like this? [map](http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pages/results/states/VA/P/00/index.html) ---
**Author:** ![Governor\_Quinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/d26b3c/32.png) [@Governor\_Quinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Governor_Quinn)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2004, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virginia-counties/273358/2 "2004-11-06T16:30:58Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > Looking at this vote I notice a buch of “dots” that appear in counties. Are these seperate counties, or cities that are somehow seperate from the county? How does this work and why aren’t all counties like this? > > [map](http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pages/results/states/VA/P/00/index.html) Virginia has a system in which many cities are independent entities from county governments. Those dots are these cities. Why this is the case, I will leave to an actual resident of the state… ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2004, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virginia-counties/273358/3 "2004-11-06T16:42:23Z")
> [@Governor Quinn](#): > > Virginia has a system in which many cities are independent entities from county governments. Those dots are these cities. Specifically, all municipalities incorporated as a cities here are politically independant of any county, even if they are the seat of a county. Don’t ask me why, either. I’ve not a clue. Virginia is one of the very few, if not the only, state where this is the case. ---
**Author:** ![Julius\_Henry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8797f3/32.png) [@Julius\_Henry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Julius_Henry)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2004, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virginia-counties/273358/4 "2004-11-06T17:08:41Z")
I believe Baltimore is independent from any county. If I’m wrong — and I am a lot more these days — please be kind when you correct me. I know St. Louis is not a part of St. Louis County. I’m not wrong about that. But, no, I don’t know why that is. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2004, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virginia-counties/273358/5 "2004-11-06T17:38:49Z")
There are a bunch of cities across the U.S. that are administratively independent of the county/-ies in/bordering which they lie. Some constitute counties in their own right, and others are classified as “independent cities.” New York City, a unique case, constitutes the whole five counties corresponding to its boroughs. Honolulu and the Alaskan boroughs constitute other odd exceptions to the system as well; inhabitants of those states may clarify their system. That said, the following are cities which are either a county in and of themselves or are administratively independent of any county. The list is _intended_ to be comprehensive, but I’m confident there are omissions: [ul][li]San Francisco, CA[/li][li]Jacksonville-Duval County, FL[/li][li]Indianapolis-Marion County, IN[/li][li]Baltimore, MD[/li][li]St. Louis, MO[/li][li]Carson City, NV[/li][li]Philadelphia, PA[/li][li]Nashville-Davidson County, TN[/li][li]Arlington, VA[/li][li]Alexandria, VA[/li][li]Fairfax, VA[/li][li]Falls Church, VA[/li][li]Manassas, VA[/li][li]Manassas Junction, VA[/li][li]Winchester, VA[/li][li]Harrisonburg, VA[/li][li]Staunton, VA[/li][li]Waynesboro, VA[/li][li]Charlottesville, VA[/li][li]Fredericksburg, VA[/li][li]Richmond, VA[/li][li]Colonial Heights, VA[/li][li]Petersburg, VA[/li][li]Covington, VA[/li][li]Lexington, VA[/li][li]Roanoke, VA[/li][li]Salem, VA[/li][li]Danville, VA[/li][li]Martinsville, VA[/li][li]Christiansburg, VA[/li][li]Blacksburg, VA[/li][li]Wytheville, VA[/li][li]Radford, VA[/li][li]Pulaski, VA[/li][li]Norton, VA[/li][li]Bristol, VA[/li][li]Lexington, VA[/li][li]Lynchburg, VA[/li][li]Bedford, VA[/li][li]South Boston, VA[/li][li]Emporia, VA[/li][li]Williamsburg, VA[/li][li]Newport News, VA[/li][li]Hampton, VA[/li][li]Portsmouth, VA[/li][li]Suffolk, VA[/li][li]Norfolk, VA[/li][li]Chesapeake, VA[/li][li]Virginia Beach, VA[/ul][/li] AFAIK, Miami-Dade, Florida, was a consolidation of services but not a creation of coterminous status. I’ve omitted ones I’m not certain of, including Oklahoma City. A number of cities and counties are contemplating creating a single coterminous unit, including Durham, NC ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2004, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virginia-counties/273358/6 "2004-11-06T17:40:12Z")
[http://www.pettitcompany.com/html/va\_cities\_and\_counties.html](http://www.pettitcompany.com/html/va_cities_and_counties.html) > [@](#): > > The Commonwealth of Virginia is a little different than the rest of the states, in that they have independent cities. These cities have the same authority as counties. They all have their own court system, and with a few exceptions, their own record depositories (record rooms). There are 41 independent cities in Virginia, and 95 counties. Confusion occurs because some cities and counties are named the same. For instance, there is a Roanoke City and a Roanoke County, which are contiguous. There is also a Richmond City and a Richmond County, which are not contiguous, and in fact, are about 70 miles apart. There is also James City and Charles City, which are not cities, but counties. Because of Virginia Statutes and the Uniform Commercial Code, it’s extremely important that you know the exact jurisdiction in which to file or search. Further confusion exists because of U.S. Postal addresses. For instance, a Postal address can be Richmond, VA, but the actual jurisdiction can be the City of Richmond, or the counties of Chesterfield, Henrico, Charles City, or Goochland. And from [Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independent_city) > [@](#): > > An independent city is a city in the United States of America that does not belong to any county. It should not be confused with a consolidated city-county, in which both city and county government are merged under the laws of the State, but which may contain other cities (such as Philadelphia and Philadelphia County, Pennsylvania, Honolulu and Honolulu County, Hawaii, New Orleans and Orleans Parish, Louisiana, and Louisville and Jefferson County, Kentucky). > List of independent cities in the United States (partial, add as known) > > Anchorage, Alaska > Baltimore, Maryland (separate from Baltimore County, Maryland) > Carson City, Nevada (formerly seat of Ormsby County, Nevada) > Saint Louis, Missouri (separate from Saint Louis County, Missouri) ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2004, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virginia-counties/273358/7 "2004-11-06T18:22:33Z")
Those dots aren’t dots; they’re outlines of the cities enclosed within (but generally not a part of) the counties. If you’re confused, let me muddy the waters a little bit: Many, if not most, of those cities are the seat of government for the county that surrounds them but they’re allegedly not a part of. Fairfax is the county seat of Fairfax County. Charlottesville is the county seat of Albemarle county. Arlington is, on paper, a county but it’s a tiny one and the “towns” and “cities” in it are more accurately known as “neighborhoods.” It’s all having to do with apportioning money for county-level services. Towns (like Herndon and Vienna, both in Fairfax County) have their own small police forces that work in conjunction with Fairfax County police, but with an eye on the specific needs of the community and local businesses. City of Alexandria has its own police force and a sheriff’s department, totally independent of Fairfax County (and pays no taxes to Fairfax County). But all of eastern unincorporated Fairfax County calls itself “Alexandria” and gets all its services from the county, none from the City of Alexandria. On paper, the cities are independent entities of the county. In practice, it varies by degree from county to county. Virginia has a proud tradition of winking and looking the other way. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2004, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virginia-counties/273358/8 "2004-11-06T18:26:27Z")
If you go to [this map](http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pages/results/states/VA/P/00/map.html), you get the city name when you roll over them, and you can click on them to see the individual stats. ---
**Author:** ![Pythagras](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/45deac/32.png) [@Pythagras](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pythagras)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2004, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virginia-counties/273358/9 "2004-11-06T19:00:21Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > There are a bunch of cities across the U.S. that are administratively independent of the county/-ies in/bordering which they lie. Some constitute counties in their own right, and others are classified as “independent cities.” New York City, a unique case, constitutes the whole five counties corresponding to its boroughs. > > Honolulu and the Alaskan boroughs constitute other odd exceptions to the system as well; inhabitants of those states may clarify their system. > > That said, the following are cities which are either a county in and of themselves or are administratively independent of any county. The list is _intended_ to be comprehensive, but I’m confident there are omissions: > > [ul][li]San Francisco, CA[/li][li]Jacksonville-Duval County, FL[/li][li]Indianapolis-Marion County, IN[/li][li]Baltimore, MD[/li][li]St. Louis, MO[/li][li]Carson City, NV[/li][li]Philadelphia, PA[/li][li]Nashville-Davidson County, TN[/li][li]Arlington, VA[/li][li]Alexandria, VA[/li][li]Fairfax, VA[/li][li]Falls Church, VA[/li][li]Manassas, VA[/li][li]Manassas Junction, VA[/li][li]Winchester, VA[/li][li]Harrisonburg, VA[/li][li]Staunton, VA[/li][li]Waynesboro, VA[/li][li]Charlottesville, VA[/li][li]Fredericksburg, VA[/li][li]Richmond, VA[/li][li]Colonial Heights, VA[/li][li]Petersburg, VA[/li][li]Covington, VA[/li][li]Lexington, VA[/li][li]Roanoke, VA[/li][li]Salem, VA[/li][li]Danville, VA[/li][li]Martinsville, VA[/li][li]Christiansburg, VA[/li][li]Blacksburg, VA[/li][li]Wytheville, VA[/li][li]Radford, VA[/li][li]Pulaski, VA[/li][li]Norton, VA[/li][li]Bristol, VA[/li][li]Lexington, VA[/li][li]Lynchburg, VA[/li][li]Bedford, VA[/li][li]South Boston, VA[/li][li]Emporia, VA[/li][li]Williamsburg, VA[/li][li]Newport News, VA[/li][li]Hampton, VA[/li][li]Portsmouth, VA[/li][li]Suffolk, VA[/li][li]Norfolk, VA[/li][li]Chesapeake, VA[/li][li]Virginia Beach, VA[/ul][/li] > AFAIK, Miami-Dade, Florida, was a consolidation of services but not a creation of coterminous status. I’ve omitted ones I’m not certain of, including Oklahoma City. A number of cities and counties are contemplating creating a single coterminous unit, including Durham, NC I know Blacksburg and Christiansburg aren’t independent cities, they are towns incorporated into Montgomery County. ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2004, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virginia-counties/273358/10 "2004-11-06T19:44:28Z")
A friend of mine used to work for the Henrico County (VA) government. Henrico County’s seat of government was Richmond. Richmond is not part of Henrico County governmentally however. ---
**Author:** ![ouryL](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ouryl/32/6067_2.png) [@ouryL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ouryL)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2004, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virginia-counties/273358/11 "2004-11-06T19:57:38Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > There are a bunch of cities across the U.S. that are administratively independent of the county/-ies in/bordering which they lie. Some constitute counties in their own right, and others are classified as “independent cities.” New York City, a unique case, constitutes the whole five counties corresponding to its boroughs. > > Honolulu and the Alaskan boroughs constitute other odd exceptions to the system as well; inhabitants of those states may clarify their system. > > That said, the following are cities which are either a county in and of themselves or are administratively independent of any county. The list is _intended_ to be comprehensive, but I’m confident there are omissions: > > [ul][li]San Francisco, CA[/li][li]Jacksonville-Duval County, FL[/li][li]Indianapolis-Marion County, IN[/li][li]Baltimore, MD[/li][li]St. Louis, MO[/li][li]Carson City, NV[/li][li]Philadelphia, PA[/li][li]Nashville-Davidson County, TN[/li][li]Arlington, VA[/li][li]Alexandria, VA[/li][li]Fairfax, VA[/li][li]Falls Church, VA[/li][li]Manassas, VA[/li][li]Manassas Junction, VA[/li][li]Winchester, VA[/li][li]Harrisonburg, VA[/li][li]Staunton, VA[/li][li]Waynesboro, VA[/li][li]Charlottesville, VA[/li][li]Fredericksburg, VA[/li][li]Richmond, VA[/li][li]Colonial Heights, VA[/li][li]Petersburg, VA[/li][li]Covington, VA[/li][li]Lexington, VA[/li][li]Roanoke, VA[/li][li]Salem, VA[/li][li]Danville, VA[/li][li]Martinsville, VA[/li][li]Christiansburg, VA[/li][li]Blacksburg, VA[/li][li]Wytheville, VA[/li][li]Radford, VA[/li][li]Pulaski, VA[/li][li]Norton, VA[/li][li]Bristol, VA[/li][li]Lexington, VA[/li][li]Lynchburg, VA[/li][li]Bedford, VA[/li][li]South Boston, VA[/li][li]Emporia, VA[/li][li]Williamsburg, VA[/li][li]Newport News, VA[/li][li]Hampton, VA[/li][li]Portsmouth, VA[/li][li]Suffolk, VA[/li][li]Norfolk, VA[/li][li]Chesapeake, VA[/li][li]Virginia Beach, VA[/ul][/li] > AFAIK, Miami-Dade, Florida, was a consolidation of services but not a creation of coterminous status. I’ve omitted ones I’m not certain of, including Oklahoma City. A number of cities and counties are contemplating creating a single coterminous unit, including Durham, NC Honolulu is the name of the city and county; it’s indivisible. ---
**Author:** ![ouryL](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ouryl/32/6067_2.png) [@ouryL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ouryL)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2004, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virginia-counties/273358/12 "2004-11-06T20:19:09Z")
> [@ouryL](#): > > Honolulu is the name of the city and county; it’s indivisible. FYI: Hawaii[the island] is it’s own county, with it’s county seat being the city of Hilo. Kauai and Maui are multi-island counties. Kauai County comprises Kauai and Niihau. It’s county seat is the city if Lihue. Maui County comprises Kahoolawe, Lanai, Maui, and Molokai, except that Kalawao County occupies a small portion of Molokai. Kalawao \*County \*, where the Kalaupapa settlement resides, was set aside as a colony for sufferers of Hansen’s Disease. It is now administered by Maui county. The county seat for Maui is the city of Wailuku. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2004, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virginia-counties/273358/13 "2004-11-06T21:22:23Z")
> [@Pythagras](#): > > I know Blacksburg and Christiansburg aren’t independent cities, they are towns incorporated into Montgomery County. Thanks. My World Almanac having disintegrated, I was using a political map of Virginia on a relatively small scale, and it looked like they were demarcated as independent cities. Question: Does Virginia have **non** -independent cities? Or does achieving city status entail mandatory separation from the surrounding county? ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2004, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virginia-counties/273358/14 "2004-11-06T21:38:32Z")
In Virginia, a “City” by definition is independent. The inbetween status is “Town”. ---
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2004, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virginia-counties/273358/15 "2004-11-07T02:12:43Z")
Strictly speaking, one refers only to St. Louis, Baltimore, Carson City, and either 40 or 41 (sources differ) cities in Virginia as “independent cities”. There are many other instances, some of them listed by **Polycarp** , of consolidated city/county governments. For historical reasons, however, these are still considered to be “counties”, and the city is not independent but rather consolidated with its former parent county. For example, we have the “City and County of San Francisco”, which is one entity, but St. Louis County and the independent City of St. Louis, which are separate and distinct. Some parts of New England have abolished county government altogether, but the counties linger on in atlases and are still used by the Census Bureau for various statistical purposes, so their cities aren’t quite “independent” either. ---
**Author:** ![Sternvogel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bc79bd/32.png) [@Sternvogel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sternvogel)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2004, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virginia-counties/273358/16 "2004-11-07T02:46:34Z")
According to the 2004 _World Almanac_, these are the independent cities of Virginia: Alexandria Bedford Bristol Buena Vista (pronounced BYOO-na VISS-ta) Charlottesville Chesapeake Colonial Heights Covington Danville Emporia Fairfax Falls Church Franklin Fredericksburg Galax Hampton Harrisonburg Hopewell Lexington Lynchburg Manassas Manassas Park Martinsville Newport News Norfolk Norton Petersburg Poquoson (puh-KOE-son) Portsmouth Radford Richmond Roanoke Salem Staunton (STAN-ton) Suffolk Virginia Beach Waynesboro Williamsburg Winchester Also, the independent city of Clifton Forge joined Alleghany County in 2001. There are many “lost counties” in the Old Dominion. For example, one of my former history professors wrote an illustrated remembrance of old [Princess Anne County,](http://www.virginiabeachhistory.org/forsale.html) which was absorbed into the city of Virginia Beach.