# Virginia Dopers: Constitutional amendment on the ballot: "Right to work" **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 24, 2016, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virginia-dopers-constitutional-amendment-on-the-ballot-right-to-work/769592 "2016-10-24T14:34:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2016, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virginia-dopers-constitutional-amendment-on-the-ballot-right-to-work/769592/101 "2016-11-01T19:18:44Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Ok, the Union, has to by law, Negotiate on behalf of the entire bargaining unit. In return, it gets Union Dues. Without Dues, it can’t operate. if you allow “free riders” who get all the benefits of the collective bargaining but don’t have to pay due, then no one will pay dues- and snap- Union Busted. No, not “union busted” …union not required. (Although I’d hope that unions are doing a lot more for their workers than just pay and condition negotiations.) This may surprise you but a straightforward worker’s council is perfectly able to negotiate pay and conditions without need of an official union. I know, I’ve been on one. No membership, no fees and people still free to be a union member or not as they so wish. For certain groups they negotiated contracts via a union, for others they left it up to the worker’s council, it wasn’t complicated. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2016, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virginia-dopers-constitutional-amendment-on-the-ballot-right-to-work/769592/102 "2016-11-02T19:24:46Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > No, the company was legally obligated to offer him a new contract because it offered one to unionized workers. Again, this is a distinction in American law that you don’t seem to have grasped. Perhaps the law that mandates that a company offer the same contract to union members as it does to non-union members should be repealed. Then the choice to join or not join would actually be more of a choice. Join the union? pay dues but maybe get a better wage. Don’t join the union? No dues, but maybe not as favorable a wage as the union workers. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2016, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virginia-dopers-constitutional-amendment-on-the-ballot-right-to-work/769592/103 "2016-11-02T21:03:42Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > He was a Free rider. He took Union benefits without paying in. > … the phrase “right-to-work” is a misnomer because the lack of such a law does not deprive anyone of the right to work; a right-to-work law simply “gives employees the right to be free riders—to benefit from collective bargaining without paying for it”.[18][19] Under labor laws in the United States, the union as the exclusive collective bargaining agent has a Duty of fair representation for all persons in the bargaining unit, including those who choose not to be members and pay dues. Thus, in Abood v. Detroit Board of Education, the Supreme Court of the United States permitted Agency fees so that employees in the public sector could be required to pay for the costs of representation, even as they opted to not be a member. How was he a free rider? You just acknowledged the legality of agency fees. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2016, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virginia-dopers-constitutional-amendment-on-the-ballot-right-to-work/769592/104 "2016-11-02T22:24:04Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > How was he a free rider? You just acknowledged the legality of agency fees. Does the concept of a “free rider” specifically describe an illegal action? I understood the term to refer to anyone who gets benefits without paying for them, regardless of wether it was legal or not, but perhaps I’m mistaken? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2016, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virginia-dopers-constitutional-amendment-on-the-ballot-right-to-work/769592/105 "2016-11-02T22:36:03Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Does the concept of a “free rider” specifically describe an illegal action? I understood the term to refer to anyone who gets benefits without paying for them, regardless of wether it was legal or not, but perhaps I’m mistaken? The union can charge him for he cost of representation. That means he’s not a free rider. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2016, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virginia-dopers-constitutional-amendment-on-the-ballot-right-to-work/769592/106 "2016-11-02T22:41:46Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > The union can charge him for he cost of representation. That means he’s not a free rider. Did they? If he still had to pay the same $ as Union dues, what was his beef?😕 ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2016, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virginia-dopers-constitutional-amendment-on-the-ballot-right-to-work/769592/107 "2016-11-02T22:42:58Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > The union can charge him for he cost of representation. That means he’s not a free rider. Ah, I see. My bad - I knew I’d dropped a stitch there. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2016, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virginia-dopers-constitutional-amendment-on-the-ballot-right-to-work/769592/108 "2016-11-02T23:28:47Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Did they? If he still had to pay the same $ as Union dues, what was his beef?😕 Agency fees are the percentage of union dues that the union spends on contract negotiations and benefits, as opposed to costs like political donations. So if the union dues are $100, the union produces an accounting: of that $100, we spend 87 on getting you benefits and 13 on Sanders for President. The union can charge non-members the 87. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2016, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virginia-dopers-constitutional-amendment-on-the-ballot-right-to-work/769592/109 "2016-11-03T03:29:55Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Agency fees are the percentage of union dues that the union spends on contract negotiations and benefits, as opposed to costs like political donations. > > So if the union dues are $100, the union produces an accounting: of that $100, we spend 87 on getting you benefits and 13 on Sanders for President. The union can charge non-members the 87. I don’t know how universal that is. I’m pretty sure I wasn’t charged anything when I declined joining a union in Texas. Although they weren’t actively negotiating anything during my brief tenure. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 10:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virginia-dopers-constitutional-amendment-on-the-ballot-right-to-work/769592/110 "2016-11-09T10:40:49Z")
FWIW this amendment was defeated, 52/48. But business as usual unless the law is changed or overturned. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virginia-dopers-constitutional-amendment-on-the-ballot-right-to-work/769592.md?page=5)