# Virginia election-talk me down off the ledge **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 29, 2021, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virginia-election-talk-me-down-off-the-ledge/953496 "2021-10-29T23:52:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2021, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virginia-election-talk-me-down-off-the-ledge/953496/181 "2021-11-04T23:05:12Z")
Here, found it: > [@bobot](#): > > So concerning the Va. governor’s race, isn’t this the point at which the loser is supposed to start crying petulantly about fraud and demanding audits? Or is that just a Republican thing? ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2021, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virginia-election-talk-me-down-off-the-ledge/953496/182 "2021-11-04T23:10:13Z")
Right, and the Diebold conspiracy theories were considered nutty and stupid. Did John Kerry buy into them? I seem to remember him officially conceding early in the morning the night after he lost, do you remember something different? I don’t really understand the intellectual choice to deliberately choose to suggest that because two separate political parties engage in bad behavior, it means that all spectrum of bad behavior are comparable in seriousness, concern etc. It’s like someone defending Hitler after WWII by saying things like “well FDR put Japanese people in camps, too.” ---
**Author:** ![CaptMurdock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captmurdock/32/11736_2.png) [@CaptMurdock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptMurdock)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2021, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virginia-election-talk-me-down-off-the-ledge/953496/183 "2021-11-04T23:33:40Z")
Give me a break. How many times did we hear that if it wasn’t for Ross Perot “spoiling” the 1992 election, GHWB would have won a second term? And as noted above, 2000 is a very different kettle of rotten-smelling fish, boyo. A matter of about 550 votes in a state whose governor was the Republican candidate’s _brother_ and the secretary of state – who tried to put the kibosh on the recount – was the Republican candidate’s state campaign manager…you seriously are going to try to handwave that away? Your “binoculars” look suspiciously like rose-colored glasses from here. ---
**Author:** ![Bootb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19b73/32.png) [@Bootb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bootb)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2021, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virginia-election-talk-me-down-off-the-ledge/953496/184 "2021-11-04T23:42:06Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > FYI, McAuliffe set a new record for votes for a Democratic gubernatorial candidate in Virginia. His campaign did, in fact, motivate D voters to get to the polls. That graph would be more interesting, not to mention more informative, if it would include a comparison on how Virginia’s population and political registration has changed over that timeframe. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2021, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virginia-election-talk-me-down-off-the-ledge/953496/185 "2021-11-04T23:58:26Z")
> [@Bootb](#): > > That graph would be more interesting, not to mention more informative, if it would include a comparison on how Virginia’s population and political registration has changed over that timeframe. Go for it. I can’t wait to see it. ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2021, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virginia-election-talk-me-down-off-the-ledge/953496/186 "2021-11-05T01:55:20Z")
> **Summary** > > This election is just another lesson that Democrats refuse to learn. Nobody likes liberal policies. People want strong families, strong police forces, and low taxes. That’s what people like. What people don’t like is being told what to do, having their children taught things they don’t approve of, or having less money. > > When Democrats run on issues like “I’ll fix healthcare so you have better health and more money” or “I’ll fund the schools better so your kids are smarter,” they win. When they run on things like “Let’s raise taxes on…uh…the rich…which totally won’t be you.” and “Let’s teach brown kids that they’re victims and white kids that they’re oppressors,” they lose. > > How can anyone not see that when Defund the Police comes up, they need to run the other way? When CRT gets brought up, they need to shut that shit down quick? Well, Dems failed to do either, and now they’ll pay for it at the polls. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2021, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virginia-election-talk-me-down-off-the-ledge/953496/187 "2021-11-05T02:02:38Z")
> [@CaptMurdock](#): > > Give me a break. How many times did we hear that if it wasn’t for Ross Perot “spoiling” the 1992 election, GHWB would have won a second term? > > And as noted above, 2000 is a very different kettle of rotten-smelling fish, boyo. A matter of about 550 votes in a state whose governor was the Republican candidate’s _brother_ and the secretary of state – who tried to put the kibosh on the recount – was the Republican candidate’s state campaign manager…you seriously are going to try to handwave that away? > > Your “binoculars” look suspiciously like rose-colored glasses from here. Mind in 2000 Gore wasn’t saying our entire election system was rigged, he had procedural issues with how Florida was doing its recount, and attempted to fight it in court. I actually have zero issue with a candidate (even Donald J. Trump) availing themselves of the legal mechanisms for disputing procedures used in an election count, that’s what our courts are for, I have problems with the things I laid out that he did (i.e. held a rally on electoral college cert date saying the election was stolen, refused to concede even after every State certified and every court had laughed his claims out etc etc.) ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2021, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virginia-election-talk-me-down-off-the-ledge/953496/188 "2021-11-05T07:03:31Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > Nobody likes liberal policies. Nobody, aside from the 1.5 million people who voted for McAuliffe, including most women, most black people, most Latino people, and most Asian people. ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2021, 7:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virginia-election-talk-me-down-off-the-ledge/953496/189 "2021-11-05T07:58:48Z")
And those people that seem to show up in polls and surveys about issues important to them. Same-sex marriage, healthcare, things like that come from liberal policies, and last I checked, the majority of people were in favor of SSM and other liberal issues. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2021, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virginia-election-talk-me-down-off-the-ledge/953496/190 "2021-11-05T12:23:43Z")
What does “strong families” even mean? ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2021, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virginia-election-talk-me-down-off-the-ledge/953496/191 "2021-11-05T13:07:11Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > When they run on things like “Let’s raise taxes on…uh…the rich…which totally won’t be you.” and “Let’s teach brown kids that they’re victims and white kids that they’re oppressors,” they lose. I can tell that you followed this campaign closely because reading that was like being at a McAuliffe rally. ---
**Author:** ![ZosterSandstorm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e0b2c6/32.png) [@ZosterSandstorm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZosterSandstorm)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2021, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virginia-election-talk-me-down-off-the-ledge/953496/192 "2021-11-05T13:07:41Z")
> [@Superdude](#): > > Same-sex marriage, healthcare, things like that come from liberal policies, and last I checked, the majority of people were in favor of SSM and other liberal issues. Why, it’s almost as if a normal moderate-Dem campaign that focused on normal moderate-Dem social issues in combination with the continued commitment to a normal moderate-Dem economic policy could have won in Virginia, like it did the last 13 times, and the decision to instead focus the entire race on an extreme, deeply unpopular education policy was a baffling own-goal. Imagine if someone had been saying that. ---
**Author:** ![SpacemanSpiff\_II](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e19adc/32.png) [@SpacemanSpiff\_II](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpacemanSpiff_II)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2021, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virginia-election-talk-me-down-off-the-ledge/953496/193 "2021-11-05T13:26:14Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > How can anyone not see that when Defund the Police comes up, they need to run the other way? When CRT gets brought up, they need to shut that shit down quick? Well, Dems failed to do either, and now they’ll pay for it at the polls. [James Clyburn says he and John Lewis feared “defund the police” would undermine Black Lives Matter movement - CBS News](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/james-clyburn-john-lewis-defund-the-police-messages-black-lives-matter/) ---
**Author:** ![Icarus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icarus/32/72_2.png) [@Icarus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icarus)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2021, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virginia-election-talk-me-down-off-the-ledge/953496/194 "2021-11-05T13:44:21Z")
Here is what I observe - Things like CRT and Defund the Police are not central to Democratic platforms, or in the top priority. Maybe they are far down on the list, maybe not on the list at all (really!). But, _ **someone** _ on the left makes noise about one or the other - maybe not even a politician, maybe a blogger! The right latches onto that and makes it the BIGGEST THING IN THE WORLD AND CLAIM THAT ALL DEMOCRATS ARE TALKING ABOUT IT ALL THE TIME! Typical voters absorb THAT message, because it is shouted from the rooftops 24/7. The reality? Not so much. The result is that the topic sucks all of the oxygen out of any substantive discussion and acts as a “gotcha” (ala “Have you stopped beating your wife?”) The right is very good at this technique, at controlling the narrative, and the Dems are not skilled at countering it. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2021, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virginia-election-talk-me-down-off-the-ledge/953496/195 "2021-11-05T14:14:40Z")
Closed on November 5, 2021, 2:14pm UTC ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2021, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virginia-election-talk-me-down-off-the-ledge/953496/196 "2021-11-05T14:17:58Z")
**Warning** for **ZosterSandstorm**. This is still talking about and hijacking the thread with CRT. You were specifically noted to stop. I’m going to discuss a topic ban on this subject with the other mods. As of right now, you are banned from this thread. Hopefully you understand this instruction. * * * To everyone else, I’m not sure how to shutdown the CRT discussion, so I will be leaving this closed for a bit a figure it out. As the main hijacker has been removed. Consider my restriction rescinded on the CRT discussion. The ATMB threads swayed me. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2021, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virginia-election-talk-me-down-off-the-ledge/953496/197 "2021-11-05T14:51:24Z")
Opened on November 5, 2021, 2:51pm UTC This topic was automatically opened after 20 minutes. ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2021, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virginia-election-talk-me-down-off-the-ledge/953496/198 "2021-11-05T16:42:51Z")
> [@Red\_Wiggler](#): > > What does “strong families” even mean? Code for “white, two parent, man and woman families” the way I read it. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2021, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virginia-election-talk-me-down-off-the-ledge/953496/199 "2021-11-05T17:02:54Z")
In part that is because when such an issue is brought about, Dems who _know_ the real meaning (as opposed to the facile caricature) and who _know_ that the harder line is not the majority platform, feel cornered in that they can’t just spit on it, as the RW will demand, either. Because since they _know the real meaning_ they will be held to that by those on their own side who will feel thrown under the bus; and they know the RW will just move on to: “and _this_? do you reject _this_ too? ok what about _this_?” They know that no matter what they answer the opponents have just cast it as a simplistic “Police: Y/N?” “CRT, Y/N?” “America ROCKS, Y/N?” “Boys in Girls Rooms, Y/N?” and can’t figure how to beat that in a 20 second soundbite. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2021, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virginia-election-talk-me-down-off-the-ledge/953496/200 "2021-11-05T17:24:37Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > In part that is that when such an issue is brought about, Dems who _know_ the real meaning (as opposed to the facile caricature) and who _know_ that the harder line is not the majority platform, feel cornered in that they can’t just spit on it, as the RW will demand, because since they _know the real meaning_ they will be held to that by those on their own side who will feel thrown under the bus; and because they know the RW will just move on to: “and _this_ ? do you reject _this_ too? ok what about _this_ ?” QFT I will have to notice that when I point at actual research published by CRT scholars, the ones critical about it refuse to see that banning the teaching of it also removes things like criticism to China regarding their treatment of Uyghurs and criticism to Affirmative Action in the US. Meaning that if they had bothered to see what in reality CRT was they would had realized how asinine was to press for the imaginary talking points from the right wing sources of information, when in reality it would had helped with some of their pet peeves. There is also the reality that because they don’t use the proper definitions, the “solutions” the right has proposed to the CRT bogeyman is to also erase history that was already taught as being part of CRT, that teachers and professors that are mostly minorities are being affected is a feature that many in the right or seemingly moderate democrats are willing to ignore as I noticed in previous discussions. > **[Teachers Say GOP's Critical Race Theory Bills 'Whitewash American History'](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/teachers-republican-critical-race-theory-systemic-racism-bills_n_60d4be83e4b0600512a023af)** > > Republicans are pushing laws to prevent teaching about systemic racism and white privilege in schools. Teachers say they just want to teach the truth. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virginia-election-talk-me-down-off-the-ledge/953496.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virginia-election-talk-me-down-off-the-ledge/953496.md?page=11)