# Virginia election-talk me down off the ledge **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 29, 2021, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virginia-election-talk-me-down-off-the-ledge/953496 "2021-10-29T23:52:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2021, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virginia-election-talk-me-down-off-the-ledge/953496/282 "2021-11-08T19:34:37Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > NJ almost elected a Republican governor. NJ elects Republican governors all the time. In fact, this is the first time that a Democratic governor got reelected since 1978. The last time a Republican governor was reelected was the last time we had a Republican governor – Chris Christie. Before that, it was Christie Todd Whitman. Basically, the news should be, amazingly, a Democratic governor was reelected in NJ. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2021, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virginia-election-talk-me-down-off-the-ledge/953496/283 "2021-11-08T20:21:24Z")
You are one step behind, read it again. I’m not talking about why they won, I’m talking about how the lies they told to win will lead to overreaches that will not be ignored by most of the ones that voted for them, leading to bigger falls. Like Trump with his cons and Hoover with his big lies in support of prohibition and against Al Smith, the problem is to not look at the future when the reality is that the Republican won with big lies that unraveled when their winning lies led to decisions that made more harm than good. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2021, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virginia-election-talk-me-down-off-the-ledge/953496/284 "2021-11-08T20:32:18Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > Republicans run issues-based campaigns that fire up their voters. Democrats largely run milquetoast campaigns that are designed to…not offend any part of the Democratic coalition. Republican candidates often are just simply more decisive, they pick issues that might offend part of the GOP base–that’s why they lost voters like me, but they gamble that most Republicans will stay loyal–and they do. Democrats are horrible at firing people up. Most Democratic big wins since Clinton have seemed to largely come down to getting lucky because the country is unhappy with Republican rule and is willing to embrace boring technocratic Democrat candidates. But anytime the country isn’t in that “political mood” you guys get your asses kicked, because you just don’t seem to know how to run political campaigns. Combine that with an absolute lack of party discipline (i.e. not making fringe people like Bernie Sanders, Ilhan Omar and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez quote the party line, not spout rogue nonsense that just confuses what the party stands for), and you’ve hit it on the head as far as why the Democrats lose. They look weak and ineffectual, plain and simple. Anyone who is making a choice sees the Republicans goose-stepping in sync, all singing from the same hymnal, and championing the same things at all levels, however odious they may be. Then they see the Democrats… saying a half-dozen different contradictory things at a national level, never mind at the state or local levels, holding up their own bills and struggling to pass them, and going out of their way not to be offensive to ANYONE, not even Republicans, and they see a party that engenders doubts about their ability to effectively govern. You can’t please everyone, after all. And they REALLY need to rein in their rogue elements. Having AOC mouth off on Twitter about what she thinks is wrong with everything is really bad. Part of being part of a political party is being on board with what they’re doing- when they pass the infrastructure bill, you cheer for it, not bitch about how the messaging is incorrect or whatever. Again, makes the party look ineffectual- who’s driving the boat- Joe Biden or AOC? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2021, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virginia-election-talk-me-down-off-the-ledge/953496/285 "2021-11-08T20:36:51Z")
That is to laugh when when one looks at what the “mainstream” Republicans are up to. > **[Big Bird is just the latest piece of children's culture to trigger Republicans](https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2021/11/8/2062961/-Big-Bird-Dr-Seuss-Mr-Potato-Head-Republicans-really-don-t-want-to-talk-about-grown-up-stuff)** > > Big Bird. Mr. Potato Head. Dr. Seuss. This is not a list of potential Christmas gifts for your young child—it’s a list of things Republicans have gotten very publicly worked up about over the past year. And the reason they’ve gotten so worked up... > Republicans keep doing this because it works for them. When Dr. Seuss’ estate announced it would stop publishing six of the children’s author’s books because of their overt racism, one poll found that [more Republicans had heard “a lot” about Dr. Seuss](https://morningconsult.com/2021/03/10/dr-seuss-polling/) than about the House passing the American Rescue Plan, with its $1,400 direct payments to most people and expanded child tax credit that has gone on to dramatically reduce child poverty. > > So when Sen. Ted Cruz [attacks Big Bird](https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2021/11/7/2062842/-Anti-vaccination-Ted-Cruz-takes-on-Big-Bird) for tweeting about getting his COVID-19 vaccination now that children aged 5 to 11—an age range that canonically includes Big Bird—are allowed to be vaccinated, he knows what he’s doing. It’s a practiced move fully intended not just to cement the Republican opposition to public health and politicize a lifesaving vaccine, but to distract from the passage of a bipartisan infrastructure bill he voted against and from Democratic efforts to pass a series of other very popular policies to help U.S. families and workers and in particular children. > > That’s why Cruz isn’t the only one. He’s been joined in attacking Big Bird’s vaccination by [a series of right-wing media personalities and attention-seekers](https://twitter.com/NumbersMuncher/status/1457123660901363714), including [Arizona state Sen. Wendy Rogers](https://twitter.com/WendyRogersAZ/status/1457436254711259138), who really went for maximum notoriety by tweeting: “Big Bird is a communist.” > > This is a ploy. Republicans stir up anger about something extremely minor, but involving children’s culture and some form of progress that Republicans are fighting—although in this case, it’s not even anything new, since Big Bird was shown getting a vaccination all the way back in 1972—and count on their base to get emotionally involved. The same people who love to scream about liberal tears and fragile snowflakes are depending on blind rage about children’s books and TV shows and toys to get themselves electoral advantage. > > Meanwhile, Democrats struggle to get media attention on things like an expanded child tax credit that [reduced child poverty by 29%](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/benefit-to-biden-expanded-child-tax-credit-if-democrats-pass-it-rcna2930) almost immediately upon going into effect. Even when CNN covers the financial struggles of a family that _is_ benefitting from the child tax credit, [the network doesn’t mention it](https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2021/11/4/2062215/-CNN-s-average-struggling-family-raised-eyebrows-with-milk-consumption-but-there-are-bigger-problems). We’re talking about children being fed and clothed adequately who were not before, but also struggling families getting to take their first beach weekend in years or sign their kids up for the extracurricular activities their classmates have gotten to do all along. Real changes in children’s lives that will make a lifelong difference to their health and educational outcomes and are bringing joy now, and Republicans are controlling the media story with whining about Big Bird getting vaccinated and Mr. Potato Head becoming do-what-you-want-with-it Potato Head and six Dr. Seuss books that few people were reading anyway ceasing to be published because of their really nasty racism. ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2021, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virginia-election-talk-me-down-off-the-ledge/953496/286 "2021-11-08T21:22:40Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Do you think children in grade 2 should be taught to protest for social justice or anything else? Yes, of course. ---
**Author:** ![DeadTreasSecretaries](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deadtreassecretaries/32/4817_2.png) [@DeadTreasSecretaries](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadTreasSecretaries)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2021, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virginia-election-talk-me-down-off-the-ledge/953496/287 "2021-11-08T22:02:09Z")
> [@bump](#): > > And they REALLY need to rein in their rogue elements. Having AOC mouth off on Twitter about what she thinks is wrong with everything is really bad. Part of being part of a political party is being on board with what they’re doing- when they pass the infrastructure bill, you cheer for it, not bitch about how the messaging is incorrect or whatever. Again, makes the party look ineffectual- who’s driving the boat- Joe Biden or AOC? I happen to think AOC should be mouthing off on twitter but regardless of whether the democrats should, I don’t see how they could muzzle her. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2021, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virginia-election-talk-me-down-off-the-ledge/953496/288 "2021-11-08T22:53:17Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Having AOC mouth off on Twitter about what she thinks is wrong with everything is really bad. What’s the worst thing she said in the last six months? The thing that muddled Democratic Party messaging the most. ---
**Author:** ![CaptMurdock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captmurdock/32/11736_2.png) [@CaptMurdock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptMurdock)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2021, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virginia-election-talk-me-down-off-the-ledge/953496/289 "2021-11-09T00:13:04Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Attacks on children are a strong motivator and folks think their kids are being attacked on the basis of so-called genetic privilege. Apparently it isn’t a strong motivator when their kids are shot in their classrooms. Then it’s Oh Well, 2nd Amendment Uber Alles. ---
**Author:** ![CaptMurdock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captmurdock/32/11736_2.png) [@CaptMurdock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptMurdock)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2021, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virginia-election-talk-me-down-off-the-ledge/953496/290 "2021-11-09T00:15:22Z")
> [@bump](#): > > And they REALLY need to rein in their rogue elements. Having AOC mouth off on Twitter about what she thinks is wrong with everything is really bad. Part of being part of a political party is being on board with what they’re doing- when they pass the infrastructure bill, you cheer for it, not bitch about how the messaging is incorrect or whatever. Again, makes the party look ineffectual- who’s driving the boat- Joe Biden or AOC? “Rein in their rogue elements.” Yeah, I remember when the Republicans tried that. Now the rogue elements are running the party. AOC running the Democratic Party. Yeah, that’s a real horror movie. Somebody buy me some popcorn. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2021, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virginia-election-talk-me-down-off-the-ledge/953496/291 "2021-11-09T17:10:07Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > Sigh……Saying that parents shouldn’t be the sole entity in determining what their children are taught is NOT the same as “parents having no say”? Do you think fundamentalist parents should be able to decide whether the school system teaches creationism or evolution to your child? Do you think such things should be up to a popular vote? > > But there is one thing I know for sure. > > If Youngkin loses, Trump will beat the election fraud drum. > > If Youngkin wins, Trump will take credit for the win, then beat the 2020 election fraud drum, claiming Youngkin’s victory is proof of massive fraud in Virginia in 2020. And here it is. He hasn’t called for an audit ….yet, but he’s beating the drum. > ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2021, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virginia-election-talk-me-down-off-the-ledge/953496/292 "2021-11-09T17:20:19Z")
Youngkin’s campaign manager was on CNN this morning. One of the things that he said helped his candidate win wasn’t McAuliffe’s gaff but that McAuliff’s campaign had 13 attack ads tying Youngkin to Trump, while Youngkin distanced himself from Trump and only had 3 main media ads all of which talked about moving forward, not back to McAuliffe. That was smart in my opinion. Democrats and progressives need to stop obsessing about Trump. Time to get over it and move on. Sure, Trump is still a asshole and keeps tweeting. But Democrats should stop focusing on that. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2021, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virginia-election-talk-me-down-off-the-ledge/953496/293 "2021-11-09T17:47:46Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Youngkin’s campaign manager was on CNN this morning. One of the things that he said helped his candidate win wasn’t McAuliffe’s gaff but that McAuliff’s campaign had 13 attack ads tying Youngkin to Trump, while Youngkin distanced himself from Trump and only had 3 main media ads all of which talked about moving forward, not back to McAuliffe. I think he’s got a point, but — to be fair — if you were him, would you want to paint yourself as a sagacious planner who built a winning strategy around upbeat messaging, or would you rather get on live national television and look right into the camera and say _‘so there I was, completely unable to see a path to victory for my candidate, when all of a sudden the other guy just up and made an unforced error! Man, I still can’t believe he gift-wrapped us the perfect soundbite with so foolish a slip-up! Who the hell could’ve seen that coming?’_ ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2021, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virginia-election-talk-me-down-off-the-ledge/953496/294 "2021-11-10T17:43:20Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > … yes? Like, how is that even a question? > > Also interesting that you consider “justice” a political cause. This is disingenuous. These groups list their preferred left wing causes and label it as “justice” so that you can come in and parrot their predetermined line about who could possibly be against justice. You know, I think it is perfectly unjust for a person to commit murder and not forfeit his own life. To me, that is justice. Are you against teaching justice to second graders? ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2021, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virginia-election-talk-me-down-off-the-ledge/953496/295 "2021-11-10T18:07:22Z")
This is exactly like when conservatives got upset about Mr. Rogers and Sesame Street for teaching basic pro-social behaviors like “sharing” and “inclusion.” ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2021, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virginia-election-talk-me-down-off-the-ledge/953496/296 "2021-11-10T18:45:01Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > This is disingenuous. These groups list their preferred left wing causes and label it as “justice” so that you can come in and parrot their predetermined line about who could possibly be against justice. The exercise that has **Sam** so exercised just asks kids to pick a cause they’d stand up for. That’s it. Yeah, if a kid gets penalized for picking the “wrong” cause that’s a problem, but there’s nothing in the linked material saying to do that, or defining what is or is not an acceptable opinion. > [@UltraVires](#): > > You know, I think it is perfectly unjust for a person to commit murder and not forfeit his own life. To me, that is justice. Are you against teaching justice to second graders? No, I don’t have a problem teaching second graders about the death penalty. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2021, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virginia-election-talk-me-down-off-the-ledge/953496/297 "2021-11-10T20:03:41Z")
> [@bump](#): > > > [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > > > Republicans run issues-based campaigns that fire up their voters. Democrats largely run milquetoast campaigns that are designed to…not offend any part of the Democratic coalition. Republican candidates often are just simply more decisive, they pick issues that might offend part of the GOP base–that’s why they lost voters like me, but they gamble that most Republicans will stay loyal–and they do. Democrats are horrible at firing people up. Most Democratic big wins since Clinton have seemed to largely come down to getting lucky because the country is unhappy with Republican rule and is willing to embrace boring technocratic Democrat candidates. But anytime the country isn’t in that “political mood” you guys get your asses kicked, because you just don’t seem to know how to run political campaigns. > > Combine that with an absolute lack of party discipline (i.e. not making fringe people like Bernie Sanders, Ilhan Omar and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez quote the party line, not spout rogue nonsense that just confuses what the party stands for), and you’ve hit it on the head as far as why the Democrats lose. > > They look weak and ineffectual, plain and simple. Anyone who is making a choice sees the Republicans goose-stepping in sync, all singing from the same hymnal, and championing the same things at all levels, however odious they may be. I’m sorry, but I really don’t see that at all. I see _most_ Republicans championing - or at least not pushing back against- the increasingly radicalized party line but they have their dissidents that refuse to sing from their hymnal- if they didn’t, we wouldn’t have passed an infrastructure bill. The big difference is that their dissident faction is the faction that holds the moderate centrist position, while the fringe has become the majority. And have we already forgotten the entertaining fiasco of the 2017 as the Republicans and the world’s self-proclaimed greatest negotiator tried to unite their coalition in order to repeal ObamaCare? Republican or Democrat, I don’t think you’re every going to get to lockstep. Especially in the House, where the representatives often have a very liberal or very conservative constituency that want them to be uncompromising. That’s why you generally need a majority larger than 50%+1 to get stuff done. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2021, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virginia-election-talk-me-down-off-the-ledge/953496/298 "2021-11-20T19:54:22Z")
It seems that Gov-Elect Youngkin is already getting some pushback – from even-farther-right-wing Republicans. Seems he’s not Right enough for them. What a RINO! > **[Right-Wingers Turn on Glenn Youngkin Over His LGBTQ Staffer and Vaccine Rules](https://www.thedailybeast.com/right-wingers-turn-on-glenn-youngkin-over-his-lgbtq-staffer-and-vaccine-rules)** > > Once regarded as a “brilliant” Republican candidate, Glenn Youngkin is already being called a fake conservative by many right-wing media figures. They’re up in arms because (a) he hasn’t committed to a state-wide anti-mask mandate and (b) it seems he hired a gay (or gay-friendly?) person on his staff whose on-line profile lists his preferred pronouns. ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2022, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virginia-election-talk-me-down-off-the-ledge/953496/299 "2022-01-10T00:09:23Z")
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